PPRuNe Forums


Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th May 2017, 15:12   #1 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Underneath the Radar
Posts: 49
HNZ wins SAR in Oz

HNZ have pulled off another big upset, snatching offshore SAR away from CHC and Bristow (who had a SAR S92 on site!).


HeliHub.com HNZ Group announces offshore SAR contract in Australia


Now they are scrambling for crews after the government changed the 457 Visa Rules.


They approached me but want 3 week tours, no DTA and no annual leave!


Anyone else been approached?
rrekn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 16:00   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: The Hague
Age: 51
Posts: 4,057
Quote:
..and no annual leave!
Doesn't the other 26 weeks off per year offset that a little bit? Not exactly slave labour!
212man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 16:43   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ireland/Australia
Posts: 27
Yea I figured they were having trouble getting crews after they extended the EOI an extra month on their website.

But I'm pretty sure they will get a way round the 457 issue, especially with the requirements as they stand.
Lude-og is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 17:58   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Up North
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lude-og View Post
Yea I figured they were having trouble getting crews after they extended the EOI an extra month on their website.

But I'm pretty sure they will get a way round the 457 issue, especially with the requirements as they stand.
I wouldn't keep your fingers crossed. CASA pilots with the right to work and live in Australia!
chcoffshore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 19:56   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Aberdeen, UK
Posts: 64
Maybe in a few years this CANZUK International becomes reality!!
GKaplan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 22:33   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Asia
Posts: 203
I'm not surprised they're having trouble finding pilots if this is the agreement they'll be working under:
https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae423097.pdf
Very short on detail and far worse than any of the competitor's offshore agreements in Australia. Casual rates, overtime, roster details, annual increment, salary level based on "performance"???
Mark Six is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 23:12   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: The Hague
Age: 51
Posts: 4,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Six View Post
I'm not surprised they're having trouble finding pilots if this is the agreement they'll be working under:
https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae423097.pdf
Very short on detail and far worse than any of the competitor's offshore agreements in Australia. Casual rates, overtime, roster details, annual increment, salary level based on "performance"???
So they do get leave after all - 6 weeks. So 20 weeks work, 32 weeks off.
212man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2017, 23:52   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Victoria, Australia
Age: 69
Posts: 3,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by 212man View Post
So they do get leave after all - 6 weeks. So 20 weeks work, 32 weeks off.
But check how the leave must be taken: 11.3.b

Quote:
(b) Where an Employee works on a roster cycle/work pattern comprising working and non-working days, the Company may require that any annual taken by an Employee be taken either:

(i) in a multiple of the working days and non-working days under the roster cycle/work pattern; or

(ii) in accordance with the roster cycle/work pattern; or

(iii) in 21 day blocks following a rostered on period.
Ideally the changes to the 457 visa could see more Australian pilots getting better opportunities in their chosen fields, but since 457 is to be replaced with another selective visa programme their is every chance that the gates will be re-opened to allow internationals with specific skills to be brought in for these sort of jobs.
John Eacott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 02:32   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 1,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eacott View Post
..Ideally the changes to the 457 visa could see more Australian pilots getting better opportunities in their chosen fields, but since 457 is to be replaced with another selective visa programme their is every chance that the gates will be re-opened to allow internationals with specific skills to be brought in for these sort of jobs.
The gates have been re-opened. HNZ just need to pay a one-off $5000 for a visa to employ a foreign pilot, plus $1,800 per visa per year thereafter. In the overall scheme of things the cost and effort for them to bring in foreign pilots to work on this contract is nothing.
gulliBell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 05:13   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Surgeon View Post
While we're talking about offshore, any news on the Babcock H175 contract for Timor that apparently starts in January?
Crews are off to France in the coming months for type ratings.
havick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 06:04   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 119
It's sad to watch the "race to the bottom" with wages and conditions in Australia.
Like many places I'd imagine, it's a long hard road to get into a ME IFR job with good pay and conditions. To see the current climate/situation is very disappointing.

It appears the "new players" have either no "award" (EBA), or a pathetic one, that no current ME IFR pilot would voluntarily entertain. Then they pay as much as is required to get the pilots they need on a "secret individual basis". They can then erode these conditions over time. Again, without anyone knowing what anyone else is receiving .

When times are tough, they can get some guys for peanuts.

They just tell every pilot confidentiality, that "they are the highest paid pilot in the company", and "don't tell anyone, or they will want what you have!" Next it will be: "Yours is the smallest pay cut in the company, don't tell anyone else!"

One clueless HR department have glanced over one of the recently drafted "bottom of the barrel awards" and are, stupidly or dishonestly, (hard to tell most of the time) claiming it as the new industry standard.

An experienced, qualified, motivated, loyal, stable pilot group, is apparently valueless in the brave new world.

It's all a cycle. The big winners will be the SIM operators. A large pilot turnover makes them plenty of money.


Last edited by Twist & Shout; 13th May 2017 at 06:40.
Twist & Shout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 06:40   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 880
Forgive me but this seems to be a SAR contract based in Broome. If HNZ had the crews living in Broome & not touring, then it would be on fixed based conditions & not touring. This is what Lloyds did in Karratha where the company provided housing & the crews had normal annual leave & a 5 day week.
If they flew to the oil rig as usual, then it is still a fixed base situation.
Nigel Osborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 08:53   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western Oz
Posts: 49
Brother I'm curious why now you feel it is inevitable that terms and conditions should be reduced across the industry?

A quick browse of your posting history showed a quite different viewpoint in the past.
PhilJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 08:59   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother View Post
Well I am with HNZ in Broome and its a positive and go ahead company, good people, supportive culture which is here to stay, not just short term as some of the Bristow blokes say.

The days of BRS 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off roster, $150 per day tax free DTA, equal time off for everything related to a duty, living in Cable Beach, seniority ruling the roost with the upcoming young guns who want to work used as hire and fire fodder for up and down industry cycles is over for pilots and engineers.

Its not a race to the bottom, its how things will be from now on. Its happened in airlines and it is happening in oil and gas helicopters.

CHC and BRS will have to change as well or they will be gone.
I'm glad you are happy. That's great.

But to list all the hard fought for remuneration and conditions you are personally happy to do without, and claim it is not a race to the bottom doesn't make any sense.

With your logic, the next company just has to reduce the accommodation standards some more, and pay a little less, win the contract on price, and "this will be how things are now" (till it goes further down). Where does it end? Sharing a tent and flying for food?

Make no mistake, it's a race to the bottom, and HNZ is winnning, for now.

A serious and easily answered question: Do you know for sure you are being paid the same as similarly qualified and experienced work colleagues?
Twist & Shout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 09:32   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Victoria, Australia
Age: 69
Posts: 3,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twist & Shout View Post

A serious and easily answered question: Do you know for sure you are being paid the same as similarly qualified and experienced work colleagues?
Schedule 1, page 17 (Classification and Wage Rates) and Schedule 2, page 18 (Allowances) of the Award has the required rates. If the employees don't get those rates then FWA would be taking action.
John Eacott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 09:52   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eacott View Post
Schedule 1, page 17 (Classification and Wage Rates) and Schedule 2, page 18 (Allowances) of the Award has the required rates. If the employees don't get those rates then FWA would be taking action.
John,

I believe most pilots are currently paid in excess of the advertised rates, via individual negotiations. Because, for now, they can't attract the required qualifications or experience for those rates.

I'm not certain, but this is the information circulating the industry.
Hence my genuine question.
Twist & Shout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 10:00   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 119
Quote:
BRS in OZ can't win a job and is losing work because they are too dear.
HNZ will be in the same position, when another company manages to find some pilots to "work for a bit less" with an even more "different roster" and start tendering. - Race to the bottom.

Confirm, or correct "different roster" means more time away from your family, traveling during your time, on weekends?
Twist & Shout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 14:52   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 80
Why is it that HNZ are always asking for rated guys, is no one willing to train anyone anymore? Can't expect to pay peanuts and not invest in training staff, only trying to poach rated guys from other contracts so they can keep profits high!!
trackdirect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2017, 16:08   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: OZ
Posts: 119
Brother

Don't take any of these comments as personal attacks.
I'd personally gladly take a lower paying job with a company that treated me better. (But this better treatment would probably have to include travel and accommodation standards if it were a touring position.)

You say you personally only have a 2.5hr flight. What if the next contract the company wins is in Darwin, Victoria, or East Timor? Then traveling in your time becomes less attractive.

You seem to be dodging answering some of the questions, which is one of the biggest concerns of the "new era". "Divided, and deceived we fall."
Also the crazy rumors grow, if no one will provide facts.

If you are willing to share, how many full weekends - Friday night till Monday morning, do you get at home with your family in your 6 week rotation? (3 weeks on, 3 weeks off.)

The rumors suggest at least some HNZ S92 pilots are required to travel on weekends, in their own time. This would indicate 2 weekends home every 6 weeks?
Twist & Shout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2017, 14:21   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tree to Tree
Posts: 13
Brother,
If your able, could you check your PM.
Thanks,
LP
Labpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:11.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1