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State of the Industry

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State of the Industry

Old 15th Jan 2018, 08:17
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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anyone got an idea what the running is for the Woodside consortium tender for Karratha?
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 08:54
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brother View Post
anyone got an idea what the running is for the Woodside consortium tender for Karratha?
CHC and Toll are definitely still in contention. CHC would have to be hot favourite with the current operation in place and the 189 successfully introduced into service.
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 10:16
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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I believe some of the big players have pulled out due to the risk reward profile of the bid (low or negative profit margins, penalties and escape clauses)

You’d think out of the lowest bidders CHC being the incumbents in KTA would secure the slot over a heavy EMS focussed Toll apart from a couple of ex offshore guys and their HOTC, maybe thats why they advertised awhile ago for more offshore drivers to put into their bid

Last edited by belly tank; 15th Jan 2018 at 11:56.
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 11:56
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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I believe some of the big players have pulled out due to the risk reward profile of the bid.
I heard BRS has pulled out recently. Should be a clear run for CHC I would think.
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 11:58
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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I would imagine that HNZ/PHI would still be in contention, given what they have achieved to Bristow in Broome?
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 12:03
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mark Six View Post
CHC and Toll are definitely still in contention. CHC would have to be hot favourite with the current operation in place and the 189 successfully introduced into service.
Are all the 189s in service?
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 12:13
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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I would imagine that HNZ/PHI would still be in contention, given what they have achieved to Bristow in Broome
Race to the bottom ?
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 13:28
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Race to the bottom ?
come on Belly, its not like that, look at Babcock, Toll and now PHI, all meeting the new market reality. BRS crews and engineers voted down the pay restructure idea, how can they compete if the work force won't help. They're all highly paid captains over there with no co pilots, they cant win a job. You need to work out your bottom is the new normal for survival. a slightly smaller pay slip is better than the dole.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 06:11
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.lifeflight.org.au/page/careers/Aviation_Careers/Aviation_Positions_Available/Rotary_Wing_Co-Pilots/

I see LifeFlight are looking for more "Co-Pilots".....

Certainly isn't a race to the bottom with these sorts of minimum requirements for a 500hr total heli time gig.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 07:12
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brother View Post
come on Belly, its not like that, look at Babcock, Toll and now PHI, all meeting the new market reality. BRS crews and engineers voted down the pay restructure idea, how can they compete if the work force won't help. They're all highly paid captains over there with no co pilots, they cant win a job. You need to work out your bottom is the new normal for survival. a slightly smaller pay slip is better than the dole.
All creating a new market reality. (That suits no one, but the contract bean counters. In the short term)

The “slightly* smaller pay slip is better than the dole” comment is one of the most ignorant for a while.

* for now. But in a race to the bottom, everyone has to get closer to the bottom at every opportunity, or you’ll lose. (The race)
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 07:24
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lude-og View Post
https://www.lifeflight.org.au/page/careers/Aviation_Careers/Aviation_Positions_Available/Rotary_Wing_Co-Pilots/

I see LifeFlight are looking for more "Co-Pilots".....

Certainly isn't a race to the bottom with these sorts of minimum requirements for a 500hr total heli time gig.
It certainly is when you look at their EBA and see what they're paying for those "Co-Pilot" positions
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 08:04
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brother View Post
come on Belly, its not like that, look at Babcock, Toll and now PHI, all meeting the new market reality. BRS crews and engineers voted down the pay restructure idea, how can they compete if the work force won't help. They're all highly paid captains over there with no co pilots, they cant win a job. You need to work out your bottom is the new normal for survival. a slightly smaller pay slip is better than the dole.
15% management proposed is not really "slightly smaller"....the 5% cut that the staff offered to take, could however be construed as such..
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 08:55
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lude-og View Post

..I see LifeFlight are looking for more "Co-Pilots".....

Certainly isn't a race to the bottom with these sorts of minimum requirements for a 500hr total heli time gig.
I can never understand how they come up with some of those numbers. Only 100 hours PIC required, but they want Command Instrument Rating for a co-pilot position. If a guy is squared away enough to hold a Command Instrument Rating some of those other numbers seem quite meaningless.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 10:13
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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The “slightly* smaller pay slip is better than the dole” comment is one of the most ignorant for a while.
ignorant (but realistic) calling twisty, over

I have been on the dole before down at the dole office collecting my handout. the mrs hated it, kids to feed, mortgage to pay etc. Now i might have a slightly smaller pay slip than some in other companies or it might not be much smaller in reality. but i know that i will still have a job this time next year. i may be ignorant in your opinion but i am employed with good pay in my opinion. dole money doesnt care how big your pay slip is.
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Old 17th Jan 2018, 07:21
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brother View Post
ignorant (but realistic) calling twisty, over

I have been on the dole before down at the dole office collecting my handout. the mrs hated it, kids to feed, mortgage to pay etc. Now i might have a slightly smaller pay slip than some in other companies or it might not be much smaller in reality. but i know that i will still have a job this time next year. i may be ignorant in your opinion but i am employed with good pay in my opinion. dole money doesnt care how big your pay slip is.
Are you assuming that the only two options were “dole” or a “smaller payment”?
What about the third option: “industry standard payment”? (Hard won, and deserved. IMHO)

Are you assuming that if one operator had not decided to base their business model on “cheapest” and relied on pilots on the dole being willing to accept a lower Pay and conditions, and tender accordingly, that the operation on which you currently fly would have been shut down?

(I’d suggest another, more expensive/established operator would have been awarded the tender, and probably offered you a job, on “slightly more” remuneration than you are on now.)

We are arguing over very little. (And occasionally comparing individual circumstances with whole of industry concepts.)
I hope we can all stick together a bit, and not contribute to a race to the bottom, which will be bad for everyone, including the clients. (Eventually.)

Have a great day all my fellow pilots.
(You are all worth more money!)
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Old 17th Jan 2018, 07:45
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
I can never understand how they come up with some of those numbers. Only 100 hours PIC required, but they want Command Instrument Rating for a co-pilot position. If a guy is squared away enough to hold a Command Instrument Rating some of those other numbers seem quite meaningless.
What other type of instrument rating is there these days I think a command instrument rating is the only one you can get.
I think we all know that a fresh command instrument rating with no renewals is prob not the guy you want as a captain which is why you see the job adverts for captain asking for several renewals.
Just saying
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Old 17th Jan 2018, 08:24
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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ok twisty, i won't argue if its not over much.

(I’d suggest another, more expensive/established operator would have been awarded the tender, and probably offered you a job, on “slightly more” remuneration than you are on now.)
which tender?
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Old 17th Jan 2018, 09:21
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fadecdegraded View Post
What other type of instrument rating is there these days I think a command instrument rating is the only one you can get.
I think we all know that a fresh command instrument rating with no renewals is prob not the guy you want as a captain which is why you see the job adverts for captain asking for several renewals.
Just saying
A CIR is all there is now yes, unless you already had a current Co-Pilot Instrument rating before they unceremoniously pulled the plug on that one, in which case I believe you may still be able to renew that, but I only heard that from someone else so I could be wrong on that one.

But the point still remains that if you already have a 139 type rating with a command instrument rating then you are probably already pretty well set up (and more than likely already gainfully employed on a multi), as gullibell alluded to.

Call me a sook but it was a kick in the balls for many when they took away the Co-Pilot Instrument rating and pretty much turned it into carbon copy of EASA IR requirements to have to shell out for an instrument rating in a twin to be employable in the Offshore/EMS world in Australia.
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Old 17th Jan 2018, 12:14
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fadecdegraded View Post

..I think we all know that a fresh command instrument rating with no renewals is prob not the guy you want as a captain which is why you see the job adverts for captain asking for several renewals.
Just saying
I've done Command IR renewals on a few helicopter pilots who supposedly had many previous IR renewals that were so mind boggling inept they shouldn't even hold a Co-pilot IR. So a pilot who has recently passed a Command IR initial to the proper standard should be OK to PIC an AW139 under IR, but obviously under line flying supervision of a TRI initially.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 02:18
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brother View Post
ok twisty, i won't argue if its not over much.



which tender?
Is this a serious question?

The tender submitted to win the contract on which you are currently flying. (For “a little bit less”)

My suggestion is that had the lowest/winning bidder (your current employer) not submitted a tender, someone else would have won the work, and just as many pilots would be employed. (Hopefully you, on a slightly better wage.)

The “race to the bottom” which you deny, or don’t understand, is what your company is currently feeding.

When you were on the dole, you didn’t get cheaper petrol. You paid the going rate. (Despite the “new economic reality” you found yourself in.)
If someone started selling cheaper petrol by paying their staff less and having less of them, reducing their quality control, not paying their rent on time, and reducing their insurance coverage, we all might be happy for a while (those buying the fuel, not the staff!). Then to compete, in the race to the bottom, what do the other petrol stations selling less/no fuel do?

Under the model you are supporting, every new contract will required pilots taking a cut in Pay and conditions to compete. There is no end to it, or the consequences.

Have a great day.
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