Has anyone ever been TUPE'd - UK only?

[JulieAndrews]

Is this UK employment law effective?

Looking to learn of occasions when the legislation has been effectively used and approximate timescales involved upon change of provider.
Keeping an eye on current situation with CHC in NWI and I believe first tribunal is due end of May - some 10-months after contract provider changed.

All part of a dissertation covering effectiveness/hit-rate of various employment laws - indeed, is there any point in such regulation if such 'protection' can be 'kicked into the long grass' (even learning the legalese!) by companies' legal teams?

Feel free to PM but maybe posting might help to jolt other memories?
Thanks in advance
JA

[helimutt]

I used to hate hearing that term. 'kicked into the long grass' Certain individuals used it continuously, management weasel speak.

Good luck with TUPE when dealing with CHC.

Have PM'd you

[Luther Sebastian]

Loads of experience of TUPE, I was a union rep in local government at a time when they were outsourcing half the council. Only had it done to me in the private sector though...

All TUPE means is, your conditions at the time of transfer are protected. Doesn't directly protect pensions, they just have to be 'broadly similar'. Any changes they make subsequently that are 'connected to the transfer' aren't allowed. Lawyers go skiing in Klosters on the money they make out of 'connected to the transfer', as the wording is that woolly. And if you sign a 'new and improved contract', all bets are off.

I did come across people that did sign a new contract and for them the sky was the limit, but they would have done well wherever they were.

[helimutt]

yes you will go through a 'harmonisation' type of process and once agreed, you either accept the new contract, whatever the terms are, or say thanks but no thanks, and go on your merry way. TUPE wording is garbage.

[helimutt]

oh it happens, but only because its sometimes forced upon those opposing it. ie CHC/Bristow or because it suits them at the time. Unfortunately the TUPE regs are so vague its too easy to pick and choose what you want from them.
But yes, I agree between NS companies who you'd think were appreciative of their workforce, (they arent by the way) TUPE is a joke.
Even the union doesnt want to get involved in it.

[Tango123]

If TUPE applies, what will be the scenario then?

Full compensation to the former Dancopter pilots - full salary from mid July 15, TR on the 139, and flying in SNS as Commanders and Co's, depending on their position in Dancopter?

Dismissed, according to UK law meaning 1-2-3 months full salary from tribunal ends?

Dismissed according to the Collective Agreement the pilots had with Dancopter, meaning 5-6 months full salary from mid July to mid December/Januar?

No compensation, since CHC decides not to follow the tribunal?

Or any other scenario IF TUPEs applies?

[Tango123]

IF TUPE applies, then what would be the point in having TUPE, if CHC would only compensate those (few) pilots who are still unimployed?

Meaning CHC have then clearly dismissed all Dancopter NWI pilots not according to UK law, but would be rewarded, by only compensation the 10% who are still without a job.

What company in UK would then accept that TUPE applies, if that is more expensive than to refuse TUPE, which it would be in almost all cases?

[EESDL]

Thanks Tango, exactly my point.
If rule is not 'enforceable' then why does it exist?
Why not simplify issue with just applying redundancy - then the particular situation re DC/CHC/NHV would not exist.
Whilst many of the pilots are employed in their chosen profession - many are not, so please do not assume all is rosy with the current tactics used by our corporate 'masters'.
I for one would have received redundancy and made off PDQ!

[Geoffersincornwall]

Back in 1995 I was the Accountable Manager at KLM-ERA when BIH took us to the High Court having lost the Shell SNS Contract. BIH had declared that TUPE applied and walked away from their staff leaving them, as I remember, with nothing. We lost the initial verdict but won on appeal. You would need to ask one of the ex-BIH people what happened but I have a vague recollection that there was some kind of settlement made with those that were initially abandoned.

Ironically those employees that were able to, jumped ship early, and were hired by us. We wanted more but as soon as BIH declared TUPE our lawyers prevented the hiring of any more ex-BIH staff.

What a way to run a business?

G.

[handysnaks]

Geoffers, I seem to recall at the time that the pilots at Beccles were quite keen for TUPE to be applied (naturally! They didn't want to move up north if they could help it). Once it was apparent that it wouldn't, I think Company seniority may have come into play as I'm sure a few Beccles hands came up to Aberdeen and I think a few Aberdeen based pilots were made redundant.

[Steve Stubbs]

Handysnaks

There was no seniority issue or compulsory redundancies involved, either at Beccles or Aberdeen. All Beccles pilots were offered redeployment within the Company and retraining where necessary. Alternatively they could take redundancy.

Some of those S76 qualified and experienced (although on our S76As) elected to go to KLM as already mentioned, a number went onto a commuting roster for S61s in Sumburgh which allowed them to remain living where they were, one or two were made welcome in Aberdeen and IIRC a couple took the redundancy offer.

Yes those S61 qualified pilots would have loved to be granted TUPE and retraining onto KLM's S76 types to fly out of Norwich and thereby to make redeployment unnecessary, but the reality was that Shells experience 'ON TYPE' requirements meant that there was no way TUPE could practically work even if granted, which it wasn't.

[handysnaks]

You would certainly be more informed than I was Steve, I was obviously confusing the timing of Beccles closing and us losing a few from the bottom end of the list. Not aa complaint by the way BIH treated me very well and I enjoyed the working environment at Aberdeen (just wasn't too fond of living in Aberdeen)!

[MightyGem]

I was TUPE'ed 3 weeks before I retired, so it didn't really have any lasting effect. However, there is a downside, when the existing employees are on better Ts & Cs than you.

[Never Fretter]

What happened with the DanCopter (now NHV Denmark) crews after the last Shell SNS contract change?

[Tango123]

Now it's June, and the first tribunal was in end of May.

So are there any results if TUPE applies or not?

NF - a few left for CHC in DHR and NWI, since it was CHC that took over the SNS Shell contract, and some for NHV before they would have lost their job any way. Rest were dismissed by Dancopter. or left in the Legal No Mans Land until it is decided if TUPE applies or not. Some of those that went to CHC were only offered a time limited contract - they are now no longer working for CHC, but most have found a job elsewhere.