UK NPAS discussion thread: Mk 4
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Have they been certified for use ..... like all the other gadgets getting dished out?
or b.
or b.
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Harry O - not quite sure if you're typing tongue-in-cheek, or how familiar you are with 135 maintenance intervals, but all the NPAS machines should now have migrated to the 500/1000hr servicing intervals, unlike the 902s which require 100/200/300/400/500/600/800hr servicing, as well as a long annual!
The 135s have a few minor checks on ancilliary equipment, but they're easily completed at the bases, in a few hours in most cases, minimising downtime.
Not quite sure where you get the "902 long maintenance services" from. Unfortunately, probably due to the numbers in circulation, there's been little interest/money to initiate the type of maintenance reduction programmes that ECD/Airbus have done such a good job with over the last 10-15 years.
Can't speak for the 145, which is hampered by the vintage of the drive-train, I understand, and therefore requires a more exhaustive maintenance regime than it's little, but younger, brother.
Costs? You'd have to ask elsewhere.
The 135s have a few minor checks on ancilliary equipment, but they're easily completed at the bases, in a few hours in most cases, minimising downtime.
Not quite sure where you get the "902 long maintenance services" from. Unfortunately, probably due to the numbers in circulation, there's been little interest/money to initiate the type of maintenance reduction programmes that ECD/Airbus have done such a good job with over the last 10-15 years.
Can't speak for the 145, which is hampered by the vintage of the drive-train, I understand, and therefore requires a more exhaustive maintenance regime than it's little, but younger, brother.
Costs? You'd have to ask elsewhere.
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"No wires or cables, must be a wifi system." Given it's an artist's impression to help "sell" their concept, they wouldn't want to show all the annoying (but normally necessary) cables etc, although the layout might allow some improved cable-hiding. Certainly the number of airframes involved will help to minimise/spread the cost per airframe of making it aesthetically tidier. There appear to be no floor rails or provision for tie-downs, therefore stretcher fitting or other carry-on equipment - although it might just have been too difficult/ not pretty/realistic enough for the photo-shopper to manage, but I'll bet they're still there?
It's a utility, rather than corporate aircraft, after all - though don't be at all surprised if those making the decisions aren't swayed by pretty pictures!
From a wireless point of view, I very much doubt that EASA/CAA have actually moved forward enough to allow it, especially if thinking about 3G, possible interference, and the number of radios they have on these machines.
"Costs? You'd have to ask elsewhere." Though likely to be higher than budgeted for, if the rumoured evidence of the last 18 months is anything to go by, I understand!
Emoticons & quotes not working for some reason?
It's a utility, rather than corporate aircraft, after all - though don't be at all surprised if those making the decisions aren't swayed by pretty pictures!
From a wireless point of view, I very much doubt that EASA/CAA have actually moved forward enough to allow it, especially if thinking about 3G, possible interference, and the number of radios they have on these machines.
"Costs? You'd have to ask elsewhere." Though likely to be higher than budgeted for, if the rumoured evidence of the last 18 months is anything to go by, I understand!
Emoticons & quotes not working for some reason?
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:until now the Met's helicopters have operated independently of the National Police Air Service (NPAS), a centralised body coordinated from West Yorkshire. But a recent, much-protested decision means they are to be folded into the national unit on 1 October. Since NPAS was launched in 2012, there have been complaints from police forces that it is inefficient and overstretched, that the taxpayer has ended up paying more for a less capable service. It would be fair to say that nobody at Lippitts Hill is happy about the news.
"Put it this way," says Xxxx. "There are 20 PCs here and six of us have applied to leave." Xxxx has signed up for the dog section.
The problem, he says, is that an overstretched air service quickly becomes underused: officers stop calling on them. If London's helicopters are obliged to respond across a wider area, the increased transit times will rule out the sort of quick response that allows them to make a difference. "At 2am," he says, "we're the only helicopter south of Birmingham."
"Put it this way," says Xxxx. "There are 20 PCs here and six of us have applied to leave." Xxxx has signed up for the dog section.
The problem, he says, is that an overstretched air service quickly becomes underused: officers stop calling on them. If London's helicopters are obliged to respond across a wider area, the increased transit times will rule out the sort of quick response that allows them to make a difference. "At 2am," he says, "we're the only helicopter south of Birmingham."
I'm waiting to see if the rumours are true about where those 145's are going to end up
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I must have missed a bit
Since NPAS was launched in 2012, there have been complaints from police forces that it is inefficient and overstretched,
Which Force has complained?
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Don't forget this is a rumour site, Airpolice, & Sid believes Boreham are trying to operate two machines, one of which we understand is fill-in for otherwise thin coverage North of London. Result of complaints?? It would be difficult to come to any other conclusion, even when other rumours talk of stretched finances.
As I understand it, the fancy upgrades being discussed in recent threads, will come from a capital budget (i.e. one-off) to upgrade older airframes, where there would not be the money to replace with new. Actually, this is the most sensible decision IMHO, (certainly from a cost point of view) since the airframes in question will all be CPDS machines, so most likely built after Serial No: 200 and therefore be mature, but not past it. It's just the Police kit that's been overtaken by technology in the 10 or so years that these aircraft have been operational, and therefore ripe for a mid-life upgrade, so long as the airframes can carry enough fuel to get them to jobs half an hour away . . . Ah, that's where we get back to Art's comments on 4th June . . .
The real test will be operational, as mentioned before, i.e. how the upgrade project is managed, while still trying to keep the fleet in the air with the spare aircraft that so much of the NPAS service & mantra is based on. Watch this space.
Still can't make emoticons work - my typing screen is yellow, rather than white. Any clues?
As I understand it, the fancy upgrades being discussed in recent threads, will come from a capital budget (i.e. one-off) to upgrade older airframes, where there would not be the money to replace with new. Actually, this is the most sensible decision IMHO, (certainly from a cost point of view) since the airframes in question will all be CPDS machines, so most likely built after Serial No: 200 and therefore be mature, but not past it. It's just the Police kit that's been overtaken by technology in the 10 or so years that these aircraft have been operational, and therefore ripe for a mid-life upgrade, so long as the airframes can carry enough fuel to get them to jobs half an hour away . . . Ah, that's where we get back to Art's comments on 4th June . . .
The real test will be operational, as mentioned before, i.e. how the upgrade project is managed, while still trying to keep the fleet in the air with the spare aircraft that so much of the NPAS service & mantra is based on. Watch this space.
Still can't make emoticons work - my typing screen is yellow, rather than white. Any clues?
Last edited by Filtre de fadaises; 22nd Jun 2014 at 01:18. Reason: correct serial no error as pointed out by Brilliant stuff - sorry
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
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Don't forget this is a rumour site, Airpolice, & Sid believes Boreham are trying to operate two machines, one of which we understand is fill-in for otherwise thin coverage North of London. Result of complaints?? It would be difficult to come to any other conclusion, even when other rumours talk of stretched finances.
Is it not the case then that Boreham are operating 2 aircraft to cover the %-age not covered above and beyond the 2% accepted on inception as not to be covered within the 20 mins? Is it not also true that this additional aircraft to the operational fleet was only in reaction to the complaints in the service, or lack of?
Oh there's more a lot more, but you'll already know this .... won't you!
I think someone needs to filter la merde from Filtre de fadaises
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FdF, ref emicons, is your screen expanded/stretched?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
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I don't think you'll see on paper what you hear on the radio 
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
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Droopy;
Re the Guardian article, do the Met not require guests to wear overalls and helmets?
Re the Guardian article, do the Met not require guests to wear overalls and helmets?
Nope, I just read the article. I would have thought they'd be particularly diligent about a journalist wearing the appropriate kit.....do they not do that for officers attached on a famil shift?
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Airpolice, it's how you interpret that statement. You have assumed they mean official complaints.......... they dont mean that. What they mean is that day to day, people are complaining about the service. When we take our Air Ambo to landing sites in the northwest, bobbies regularly say they have stopped bothering to ask for a helicopter because it takes an hour to turn up. They have lost confidence in the service.
Afterwards, I ask the pilot if he plans to stay on. "I won't if we go to NPAS," Leaver says. "Cos that's not what I'm about. I'm about ensuring London gets the best service.
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Nope, I just read the article. I would have thought they'd be particularly diligent about a journalist wearing the appropriate kit.....do they not do that for officers attached on a famil shift?
"Revealing documentary series following Britain's helicopter police. Five young police officers take to the skies for the first time, but PC Xxxx hates flying."
I think this was the flight test part of the observer selection process.
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It's not too bad now, at least the job requests after 02:30 start off with;
'Sorry, you're the only one. Can you .... '
Last nights (like many others) was replied with;
'Yes we can, but it will take us 50 minutes to get there"
Come October, being a few miles closer, the Met will be having first dibs ....
Happy days to come
Don't start me off with the reply to the question, 'Where do you expect us to get fuel!'
'Sorry, you're the only one. Can you .... '
Last nights (like many others) was replied with;
'Yes we can, but it will take us 50 minutes to get there"
Come October, being a few miles closer, the Met will be having first dibs ....
Happy days to come
Don't start me off with the reply to the question, 'Where do you expect us to get fuel!'