UK NPAS discussion thread: Mk 4
Just trying to work out how the numbers add up.
Firstly, how can they say that the Costs/Hours Flown are for the year when Dorset Police and the Western Counties ASU Forces didn't join until July and the Central Region Forces didn't join until October?
The Force Contribution numbers differ in places from what individual Forces told me under my FOI questions. However, my question covered the current Financial Year rather than 2013-2014. Also, some Forces appeared to include the Capital Contribution, and some appeared not too.
The agreed number of flying hours differ in some cases as well, by 100% in some Forces. But, again, my hours are for this year, so I guess I'll need to wait until next years report to compare them.
In a time of increasingly scarce resources the principle of borderless tasking has produced the 10% efficiency saving anticipated in flying hours.
Removal of Norfolk aircraft - (Saving) £670,000 per annum
Closure of Henlow, Odiham and Shoreham bases - (Saving) £1.9m in 2012/13; £3.8m in subsequent years
Ditto for Odiham and Shoreham as Surrey and Sussex are still paying for air support.
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Page 9 - Operational Performance
Is it only me that thinks it a bit fishy that of the 9 Service Level Agreement (SLA) targets for performance, only 3 were met and the others were either not measured (2), not completed (1) or the statistics were unavailable (3).
Is it only me that thinks it a bit fishy that of the 9 Service Level Agreement (SLA) targets for performance, only 3 were met and the others were either not measured (2), not completed (1) or the statistics were unavailable (3).
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 7th Oct 2014 at 21:05. Reason: Black Omega
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On a lighter note, what priority would this task be?
Police helicopter called to help search for stolen partridges in Ryarsh
Police helicopter called to help search for stolen partridges in Ryarsh
The police helicopter was called out last night after someone reported partridges had been stolen. Ground patrols were sent to Ryarsh at around 10pm to reports of a theft in Park Farm Road.
A force spokesman said a vehicle had been seen with its lights on in woodland and a number of birds were believed to be missing. Officers asked for the helicopter's help about 10.30pm.
The area was cleared but no arrests were made. Inquiries are ongoing.
A force spokesman said a vehicle had been seen with its lights on in woodland and a number of birds were believed to be missing. Officers asked for the helicopter's help about 10.30pm.
The area was cleared but no arrests were made. Inquiries are ongoing.
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MG's post raises the question as to what are the savings in providing a (trial?) in-fill for Herts & Beds, using one of the spare airframes I hear, for the last 6 months??
Not sure how/where they're operating from, or who they're using to fly/crew it?
I wonder if they were asked to count partridges from the air at night?????????
Not sure how/where they're operating from, or who they're using to fly/crew it?
I wonder if they were asked to count partridges from the air at night?????????
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Sorry to disagree Colonel, but I think the budget only allowed for one of those items;
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More questions on figures!
Latest NPAS News | West Yorkshire Police
150 miles/hr
x 24= 3,600 miles/day
x 365 = 1,314,000 miles / year
x 5 = 6,570,000 miles in 5 years.
12,800,000 in 5 years = 2,560,000 miles / year
= 7,014 miles / day = 292 mph
98% of the population in 20 minutes!
Just to note, a round trip to the moon is 541,103 nm (Apollo 13)
The EC 135 (one of the Airbus helicopters in the NPAS fleet) has a cruising speed of approximately 150mph. In the lifetime of the contract a EC 135 could have covered 12.8 million miles - that's nearly 27 round trips to the moon.
x 24= 3,600 miles/day
x 365 = 1,314,000 miles / year
x 5 = 6,570,000 miles in 5 years.
12,800,000 in 5 years = 2,560,000 miles / year
= 7,014 miles / day = 292 mph
98% of the population in 20 minutes!
Just to note, a round trip to the moon is 541,103 nm (Apollo 13)
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Slight problem with the figures being quoted by NPAS, ( nothing unusual there 
),
as they are only allowing for 900 hours per year on each airframe. ( 17,100 / 19 = 900 )
So to achieve this :
"a" EC 135 will need Warp drive engines installing as "it" will need to fly
at an aveage of over 2800 MPH during every flight.
( 12,800,000 / 5 - 2,560,000 miles per year / 900 hours = 2844.44 MPH )
Who actually comes up with these BS satements,
and who then allows them to be published ?
Maybe what they really meant to say was "the NPAS EC135 fleet could have covered 12.8 million .......
that would be abit more more realistic, ( 149.7 MPH ),
but that doesn't allow any time for hovering, and assumes ( a bit like the 20 minute circle calculations )
that the aircraft averages that speed for the duration of the flight
It might also be a good idea for them to put the quote from Colin James ( Airbus Helicopters )
at the end of the announcement relating to the award of EC135 maintenance contract,
instead of at the end of their competitors' ( MD Helicopters ) maintenance contract announcement !
Lies, Damned lies, Statistics, and NPAS
Nail
),as they are only allowing for 900 hours per year on each airframe. ( 17,100 / 19 = 900 )
So to achieve this :
In the lifetime of the contract a EC 135 could have covered 12.8 million miles
at an aveage of over 2800 MPH during every flight.
( 12,800,000 / 5 - 2,560,000 miles per year / 900 hours = 2844.44 MPH )
Who actually comes up with these BS satements,
and who then allows them to be published ?
Maybe what they really meant to say was "the NPAS EC135 fleet could have covered 12.8 million .......
that would be abit more more realistic, ( 149.7 MPH ),
but that doesn't allow any time for hovering, and assumes ( a bit like the 20 minute circle calculations )
that the aircraft averages that speed for the duration of the flight
It might also be a good idea for them to put the quote from Colin James ( Airbus Helicopters )
at the end of the announcement relating to the award of EC135 maintenance contract,
instead of at the end of their competitors' ( MD Helicopters ) maintenance contract announcement !
Lies, Damned lies, Statistics, and NPAS
Nail
Last edited by Nail The Dream; 11th Oct 2014 at 08:15. Reason: edited to add further comment
Just back from the west and saw in the local newspaper that BAE had reneged on the Filton Heliport plan [you can check out the link through Helihub news in the last couple of days].
Not only that it seems that the work being done on the various airframes [downlink upgrades and such like] is severely affecting the availability of spares.
We might have expected it from the Explorer fleet but it seems that the EC135 fleet is similarly 'disadvantaged' and Filton is offline even though there are nominally more 135s to play with than 902s.
Plan A envisaged a slightly larger cull than took place so the pressure is more obvious under Plan B which has still to be realised. i.e. South Yorkshire remained in being so removing another 902 from the spares pool and at the same time increasing the need. In February G-WONN leaves S&E Wales and obliges NPAS to dream up another EC135 to replace it from a fleet that is clearly struggling to provide spare aircraft for existing unseen downtime. There appears to be a need to import another airframe even if it is only a temporary measure.
They have an aircraft of course but it is in Norway and non-standard for UK use, with weeks if not months to reconfigure it.
The Met remains quiet. Why would they join this thing just now?
Not only that it seems that the work being done on the various airframes [downlink upgrades and such like] is severely affecting the availability of spares.
We might have expected it from the Explorer fleet but it seems that the EC135 fleet is similarly 'disadvantaged' and Filton is offline even though there are nominally more 135s to play with than 902s.
Plan A envisaged a slightly larger cull than took place so the pressure is more obvious under Plan B which has still to be realised. i.e. South Yorkshire remained in being so removing another 902 from the spares pool and at the same time increasing the need. In February G-WONN leaves S&E Wales and obliges NPAS to dream up another EC135 to replace it from a fleet that is clearly struggling to provide spare aircraft for existing unseen downtime. There appears to be a need to import another airframe even if it is only a temporary measure.
They have an aircraft of course but it is in Norway and non-standard for UK use, with weeks if not months to reconfigure it.
The Met remains quiet. Why would they join this thing just now?
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Some of the photos in the report are a bit; 'Spot the gaffe'
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Radlett Society & Green Belt Association | Promoting the village and its facilities as a pleasant place to live and to conserve the local amenities and environment
Radlett DotBiz @RadlettDotBiz Fed up with helicopters continually flying over Radlett? Those doing it seem to be Flying Pig Helicopters - do they have the right to do it?
Flying Pig Helicopters and NPAS Elstree, I wonder if they'll have the same roastcode along Hogg Lane! This will be interesting 
Radlett DotBiz @RadlettDotBiz Fed up with helicopters continually flying over Radlett? Those doing it seem to be Flying Pig Helicopters - do they have the right to do it?
Always interesting to see another persons take on an NPAS presentation.... a report in Aviation Today on the ADAC’s HEMS conference which took place last month ADAC HEMS Academy at Bonn airport in Germany.
Ollie Dismore, representing the UK’s National Police Air Service, gave a progress update saying that there were now 19 helicopter bases within England and Wales (Scotland is already separate) with 23 helicopters available (16 EC135s, one EC145, and one MD Explorer). The force flew 16,000 hours in 2014, but because of the organization’s expansion, it is expected to log approximately 26,000 hours next year. He also added that the Metropolitan Police, with their three EC135s, were due to join on Oct. 1, 2014.
The next stage in the force’s development was rationalization. “Bases need to be located to support the local requirement. We know where the true demands are now,” he said, adding that there was over capacity in some areas, especially where air support units from different constabularies had been geographically located in close proximity to each other. He said by inheriting all of the contracts within one agency, NPAS was currently saving around $3.2 million (£2 million) per year. However, such a national organization could now work with the benefits of fixed wing aircraft and were looking at buying six airplanes which did mark a change in strategy, although they would still work alongside rotorcraft.
OK a few [reporting?] errors in there but its another take on the same subject.
Ollie Dismore, representing the UK’s National Police Air Service, gave a progress update saying that there were now 19 helicopter bases within England and Wales (Scotland is already separate) with 23 helicopters available (16 EC135s, one EC145, and one MD Explorer). The force flew 16,000 hours in 2014, but because of the organization’s expansion, it is expected to log approximately 26,000 hours next year. He also added that the Metropolitan Police, with their three EC135s, were due to join on Oct. 1, 2014.
The next stage in the force’s development was rationalization. “Bases need to be located to support the local requirement. We know where the true demands are now,” he said, adding that there was over capacity in some areas, especially where air support units from different constabularies had been geographically located in close proximity to each other. He said by inheriting all of the contracts within one agency, NPAS was currently saving around $3.2 million (£2 million) per year. However, such a national organization could now work with the benefits of fixed wing aircraft and were looking at buying six airplanes which did mark a change in strategy, although they would still work alongside rotorcraft.
OK a few [reporting?] errors in there but its another take on the same subject.
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Any details on the savings in reference to the maintenance contracts?
Are the savings solely made by grouping everyone together!
Here's one saving method mentioned in the report;
"Deleting loss of use cover to hire in aircraft and hire of pilots that was no longer required due to the resilience of the spare aircraft and floater pilots."
Are the savings solely made by grouping everyone together!
Here's one saving method mentioned in the report;
"Deleting loss of use cover to hire in aircraft and hire of pilots that was no longer required due to the resilience of the spare aircraft and floater pilots."
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The way I read the report is:
Spent £3,750,000 more than we earned last year. The HMG had to bail us out to this amount to balance the books?
I have also heard that the 6 fixed wing they are buying will eventually REPLACE (not parallel) helicopters to save further money.. Makes sense doesn't it?
And when are the Met going to join now?
Spent £3,750,000 more than we earned last year. The HMG had to bail us out to this amount to balance the books?
I have also heard that the 6 fixed wing they are buying will eventually REPLACE (not parallel) helicopters to save further money.. Makes sense doesn't it?
And when are the Met going to join now?
"Deleting loss of use cover to hire in aircraft and hire of pilots that was no longer required due to the resilience of the spare aircraft and floater pilots."
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I'm not involved in police aviation so please forgive me if this is a stupid question but are you guys saying that this service costs more than the one it replaced, achieves less than the one it replaced, can't get its facts straight about the money it spends, the number of aircraft it has or the amount of cover it gives and no-one cares but you? Politicians, senior police officers, PCCs, no-one?
Is that really what you're saying?
Is that really what you're saying?