Questions from a pilot....
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Questions from a pilot....
Hi All.
This is the first time I have ever written in to any type of forum but I have some questions that have been in the air now for quite some time...
1. I know the importance of flight experience and what it can bring to an employing company, but why does it have always come back to the total number of flight hours?
If a pilot who has 1000hrs of scenic flights is stood next to a pilot who only has 600hrs in which he has flown various jobs in the bush and has had to manage his own machine in all the different conditions. Why does the pilot with the greater amount always get the job?
2. Why is it such a 'major' issue for a company when it comes to endorsing people in a turbine aircraft?
It seems that you must have been flying since Vietnam for a company to support a pilot who shows promise.
I know this thread seems like I'm a low hour pilot who is just having trouble with the industry but I can assure you I am not. I have just been asked so many of these questions so many times from others that I am running out of excuses!
Thanks a lot for your thoughts and comments and hopefully this might benefit the next group following through.
Cheers
This is the first time I have ever written in to any type of forum but I have some questions that have been in the air now for quite some time...
1. I know the importance of flight experience and what it can bring to an employing company, but why does it have always come back to the total number of flight hours?
If a pilot who has 1000hrs of scenic flights is stood next to a pilot who only has 600hrs in which he has flown various jobs in the bush and has had to manage his own machine in all the different conditions. Why does the pilot with the greater amount always get the job?
2. Why is it such a 'major' issue for a company when it comes to endorsing people in a turbine aircraft?
It seems that you must have been flying since Vietnam for a company to support a pilot who shows promise.
I know this thread seems like I'm a low hour pilot who is just having trouble with the industry but I can assure you I am not. I have just been asked so many of these questions so many times from others that I am running out of excuses!
Thanks a lot for your thoughts and comments and hopefully this might benefit the next group following through.
Cheers
Heli84,
You will find, generally for your second job that some contracts stipulate minimum hours, were generally when you get your first job hours are not the only factor companies think of.
The company I work for some of our contracts require 1500 hours , were this number come from I do not know.
I currently work in Australia and flying your first turbine is a massive thing, in europe and canada and the US, its not...
Work that out !.
If you have been left out from getting a job, then try and bring other things to the table not just your flying skills......
I missed out on a job with a big offshore company because some of the applicants had a degree i did not......but met there job spec with no issues....
I was told early on in my flying career that life delivers what you need not what you want.....and its true
You will find, generally for your second job that some contracts stipulate minimum hours, were generally when you get your first job hours are not the only factor companies think of.
The company I work for some of our contracts require 1500 hours , were this number come from I do not know.
I currently work in Australia and flying your first turbine is a massive thing, in europe and canada and the US, its not...
Work that out !.
If you have been left out from getting a job, then try and bring other things to the table not just your flying skills......
I missed out on a job with a big offshore company because some of the applicants had a degree i did not......but met there job spec with no issues....
I was told early on in my flying career that life delivers what you need not what you want.....and its true
Last edited by ersa; 17th Sep 2013 at 09:35.
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Most companies are looking for EXPERIENCE, not just HOURS.
If the contract stipulates minimum experience required, there is usually no way around it: 3000 hours are 3000 hours.....
Especially when it comes to bush flying, most companies are looking for pilots with similar experience rather than just hours....
If the contract stipulates minimum experience required, there is usually no way around it: 3000 hours are 3000 hours.....
Especially when it comes to bush flying, most companies are looking for pilots with similar experience rather than just hours....
"Just a pilot"
Using total PIC time is an attempt at an objective metric. Is there a significant difference between a 999 hour pilot and a pilot with a thousand hours? No, but one meets a defined standard while the other does not. Period.
Insurance certainly enters the equation, it's driven by pure numbers and actuaries, yet they get burned on those numeric models.
Personally, I think there are psychological traits that make good pilots. I know of no data supporting this, I've just worked with some sharp junior pilots and dud (even dangerous) senior pilots. Until that profile and a metric is available to evaluate and weigh against experience, hiring on personality will always have the hazard of some degree of a nepotistic hire... A bad pilot is a problem, a connected bad pilot is worse.
Insurance certainly enters the equation, it's driven by pure numbers and actuaries, yet they get burned on those numeric models.
Personally, I think there are psychological traits that make good pilots. I know of no data supporting this, I've just worked with some sharp junior pilots and dud (even dangerous) senior pilots. Until that profile and a metric is available to evaluate and weigh against experience, hiring on personality will always have the hazard of some degree of a nepotistic hire... A bad pilot is a problem, a connected bad pilot is worse.
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I think there are psychological traits that make good pilots. (Devil 49)
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Thank you to all that have replied to this post.
Yet I am not really satisfied that the answers were even remotely close to actually having anything to do with the questions being asked.
Why are companies/people hiding behind some wall shouting out excuses??
Yet I am not really satisfied that the answers were even remotely close to actually having anything to do with the questions being asked.
Why are companies/people hiding behind some wall shouting out excuses??
I don't think companies are hiding behind anything mate, you seem to feel persecuted. After a check ride and interview they put on who they think is best suited for the job. You obviously missed out this time but there will be other jobs/endorsements so keep the knowledge up and don't forget the basics and you will soon be flying whatever you want to.
Good Luck
Good Luck
Last edited by Heliringer; 21st Sep 2013 at 12:06.
Welcome to the World of HR Box Tickers!
CHC for example will have you fill out a Computer formatted application that lists all sorts of quals....hours, types,licenses.
Then when HR is tasked by Ops to hire pilots....they filter their computer Resume files looking for people who hold certain exact qualifications.
When the 92 and 139 were very new.....exactly how many folks had both type ratings and a thousand hours in both?
Also...the FAA does not do "Type Ratings" on helicopters less than 12,500 pounds MAUW....which rules out all Mediums like the 212/412/76 for example.
In the old days....when Chief Pilots hired pilots this did not happen.
The CP dug through his stack of Resume's or knew people he wanted to hire....made the calls....did the interviews....hired the Pilot....and sent him down the hallway to the Personnel Office in Admin to do the paperwork.
Now days....we have Human Resource Staff who do all the hiring and the CP may get to sit in on an interview of the candidates selected by HR....who know squat about what makes a good pilot.
CHC for example will have you fill out a Computer formatted application that lists all sorts of quals....hours, types,licenses.
Then when HR is tasked by Ops to hire pilots....they filter their computer Resume files looking for people who hold certain exact qualifications.
When the 92 and 139 were very new.....exactly how many folks had both type ratings and a thousand hours in both?
Also...the FAA does not do "Type Ratings" on helicopters less than 12,500 pounds MAUW....which rules out all Mediums like the 212/412/76 for example.
In the old days....when Chief Pilots hired pilots this did not happen.
The CP dug through his stack of Resume's or knew people he wanted to hire....made the calls....did the interviews....hired the Pilot....and sent him down the hallway to the Personnel Office in Admin to do the paperwork.
Now days....we have Human Resource Staff who do all the hiring and the CP may get to sit in on an interview of the candidates selected by HR....who know squat about what makes a good pilot.
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Thanks for your thoughts Heliringer.
I previously mentioned that these questions aren't referring to myself personally but just getting them out there to the rest of the industry because I'm honestly tired of making up excuses on other people's behalf.
Thanks again and safe flying!
I previously mentioned that these questions aren't referring to myself personally but just getting them out there to the rest of the industry because I'm honestly tired of making up excuses on other people's behalf.
Thanks again and safe flying!
Heli 84.....I have a friend too, maybe its the same one!
I understand your frustration. I work in the oil and gas industry. Our risk managers and insurers use hours as a simple measure of experience. Pilot A and Pilot B can differentiate themselves at interview but, you have to get there first.
Having said that, when dealing with our contractors, exceptions can be made on some hour deficiencies and it will be accepted by our insurers providing we demonstrate that we have met certain parameters (audits etc)
I hope that helps
I understand your frustration. I work in the oil and gas industry. Our risk managers and insurers use hours as a simple measure of experience. Pilot A and Pilot B can differentiate themselves at interview but, you have to get there first.
Having said that, when dealing with our contractors, exceptions can be made on some hour deficiencies and it will be accepted by our insurers providing we demonstrate that we have met certain parameters (audits etc)
I hope that helps
heli84
I agree 1000 hours flying from one airport to another, in good weather, doors on, a maintenance facility at each end, no pressure to go or stay. Or 500 hours in the bush, every landing a confined area landing, scud running, pushy passengers, high gross weight, must do tasks, low level, mustering, shooting. No comparison. I often think ( this will stir them up) that all autopilot flown time should be put it the autopilot's log book and not the pilot sitting there, doing zero.
After all who has the controls? I now lay low on the floor and await the barrage.
After all who has the controls? I now lay low on the floor and await the barrage.
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Companies have to use some metric to determine minimum qualifications. Some metrics are more difficult to apply than others, and companies want the easier ones. Thus, total hours is the result. It can be difficult to determine whether a 500-hour pilot has more experience than a 1000-hour pilot, that takes an in-depth interview. But limiting interviews to 1000-hour pilots makes the job more manageable. It's not perfect, but it's a usable metric for a start.
Heli84: A little unfair with your initial response to those who (in my opinion) did really address your question.
However:
Look at it from an outsiders perspective:
If you were an employer and wanted a helo pilot to work for you, how would you be able to even begin to disseminate the incoming information from prospective employees if all they were allowed to tell you was what they did in the past from an experience perspective, thus:
We ll I started doing some AFI work back in 2008 and then I did some charter work followed by some tuna fishing for a couple of months...etc etc.
What does all that mean?
But if the candidate said: I have 1500hrs helo. That tells the employer much more (AS A STARTING POINT).
And as Gomer then clearly stated: the rest comes out in the interview.
See "hours" as your entry ticket to the job market......
However:
Look at it from an outsiders perspective:
If you were an employer and wanted a helo pilot to work for you, how would you be able to even begin to disseminate the incoming information from prospective employees if all they were allowed to tell you was what they did in the past from an experience perspective, thus:
We ll I started doing some AFI work back in 2008 and then I did some charter work followed by some tuna fishing for a couple of months...etc etc.
What does all that mean?
But if the candidate said: I have 1500hrs helo. That tells the employer much more (AS A STARTING POINT).
And as Gomer then clearly stated: the rest comes out in the interview.
See "hours" as your entry ticket to the job market......
Last edited by Thomas coupling; 23rd Sep 2013 at 08:46.
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Yet I am not really satisfied that the answers .....
Hours are hours-as said before, the HR-manager/chief pilot/whoever will consider all the rest (experience, attitude...) as well-if (!) you have the minimum hours...
