Millionaire helicopter pilots to ferry emergency services...
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Multi mission Pods !!!
For that, there can be only one choice;
Or specifically for fire-fighting...
...there are many choices
Of course, if the fire is less than 40 miles away, Mr P could always use the device he is presently promoting.
Meet the businessman who flies to work in his very own Bond-style jet pack.
For that, there can be only one choice;
Or specifically for fire-fighting...
...there are many choices
Of course, if the fire is less than 40 miles away, Mr P could always use the device he is presently promoting.
Mr Paxton's could have problems with his JetLev commute
The JetLev works by towing a boat behind it to provide a base for the water pump. The max speed for a boat on the Thames is 5mph so a 40 mile commute would take 8 hrs!
He would run out of fuel 25 miles short of his destination
No further comment!
HF
He says the 40-mile journey from his riverside boathouse home in Marpledurham near Reading to his office at the Lower Mill Estate in the Cotswolds is possible because the River Thames and waterways run direct between the two.
The makers say that, depending on pilot weight, a standard JetLev Flyer could top speeds of 30mph and cruise for between two to three hours before refueling with a range of around 80 miles.
No further comment!
HF
Last edited by Hummingfrog; 28th Nov 2012 at 10:05.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Not to mention, Mapledurham Lock, Whitchurch bridge and lock, the locks at Goring, Benson lock, 'Days lock', Little Wittinham lock, Culham lock, Abington lock, Sandford lock, Oxford southern lock, Osney Mill lock, Oxford north lock, Godstow lock, Wolvercote lock, Swinford lock, Pink Hill lock, Northmoor lock, a particularly low footbridge, Shifford lock, another low footbridge, yet another, Tadpole bridge lock, another footbridge, Radcot lock, Eaton Hastings lock, Buscot lock, St Johns lock, another foot bridge and is it really navigable from there to Cricklade, let alone onward to a point that is a 3 min walk from the office?
I can imagine there would be quite a bit of lugging around with all those locks to negotiate, I wonder how much the 250 HP, 4 stroke engine weighs.
Welcome to the Official Jetlev-Flyer Website | Jetlev-Flyer
I can imagine there would be quite a bit of lugging around with all those locks to negotiate, I wonder how much the 250 HP, 4 stroke engine weighs.
Welcome to the Official Jetlev-Flyer Website | Jetlev-Flyer
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 28th Nov 2012 at 11:14. Reason: ttb beat me to mentioning the locks.
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ttb,
I started the list when I first saw the story, a couple of days ago, just needed the opportunity to post
40 miles ... it's more than 48 by taking the A417, have you seen some of those river loops?
Yes handy, before you feel the need to post, we know the Jetlev doesn't go on roads thanks
I started the list when I first saw the story, a couple of days ago, just needed the opportunity to post
40 miles ... it's more than 48 by taking the A417, have you seen some of those river loops?
Yes handy, before you feel the need to post, we know the Jetlev doesn't go on roads thanks
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Hello there, as a member of 'Trumpton', for nigh on twenty years, I was interested to see what professional pilots would think of this. My own brigade trialled a helicopter recently in a few VERY carefully organised scenarios, ie, the aircraft could land right next to the incident rather than landing a mile away and having to rely on a lift to get to the incident, as the air ambulance often does in my small town. Having said that, it landed next to a chemical incident scenario and would have contaminated half the city!!
He can only carry two firemen, plus a bit of equipment, he has to get airborne, transfer to a point to pick the aforementioned firemen up, and their very limited equipment, fly them to the incident, find somewhere to land, get the equipment and personnel to the incident, etc, etc, etc.
In the meantime, the fire crew, travelling on a big red lorry, are already at the scene, so, the two 'Airborne' blokes are just two spare hands. If they miraculously get there first, then, what are they going to do? Even a swift water rescue incident would be risky with just two.
There is a reason why fire engines are crewed with a minimum of four. We pride ourselves on our speed of response, we are out of the doors in under a couple of minutes at my full time station with a FULL crew and FULL equipment - the retained, (part-timers) take a few minutes longer. As someone has mentioned, a helicopter would be great for transferring personnel to a grass fire and for observation, and, during a conversation with a RAF SAR crew, they would be more than willing for us to use them, but, a front-line response? No way! I pay four quid a month for a lottery for my local air ambulance as you never know if you'll need it, a bit like us, really. If the bloke wants to make such a magnanimous gesture, can I recommend he donates the money to his local air ambulance? Thanks for your time.
He can only carry two firemen, plus a bit of equipment, he has to get airborne, transfer to a point to pick the aforementioned firemen up, and their very limited equipment, fly them to the incident, find somewhere to land, get the equipment and personnel to the incident, etc, etc, etc.
In the meantime, the fire crew, travelling on a big red lorry, are already at the scene, so, the two 'Airborne' blokes are just two spare hands. If they miraculously get there first, then, what are they going to do? Even a swift water rescue incident would be risky with just two.
There is a reason why fire engines are crewed with a minimum of four. We pride ourselves on our speed of response, we are out of the doors in under a couple of minutes at my full time station with a FULL crew and FULL equipment - the retained, (part-timers) take a few minutes longer. As someone has mentioned, a helicopter would be great for transferring personnel to a grass fire and for observation, and, during a conversation with a RAF SAR crew, they would be more than willing for us to use them, but, a front-line response? No way! I pay four quid a month for a lottery for my local air ambulance as you never know if you'll need it, a bit like us, really. If the bloke wants to make such a magnanimous gesture, can I recommend he donates the money to his local air ambulance? Thanks for your time.
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Thanks ttb, for reminding me why I was saying that with Flannery over there in the last year or so spruiking up your droughts and global warming, that it wouldn't be long before good drought breaking rains arrived, and , hey presto. Good luck
Ok guys Mr P spoke to me today to ask for my advice on what he had been asked to do by the Brigade, namely to use a longline under the heli with a fireman on the end, to water rescue people 
He was very concerned that this was not a safe thing to do and asked if I would do such a thing ( I went for the obvious answer)
What he is doing is the following
1. Recce of the fire with the incident commander already done a trial on a live factory fire, result was positive with brigade being very happy as result a reckeoned 12 hours less time on scene.
2. JP has funded the pods, these are US Fire Dept cutting kit, which is battery powered and doesnt rely on massive hydraulic pumps. In most cases it out performs the old systems currently used ( so I am told) The pod fits easily in the back of a 500. These latest systems cant be afforded by the Brigades
Overall the " service " is a recce and move equipment to areas that would be difficult for a normal pump to get to. I have gone over the various things that have been bought up by the " Rotorheads Panel "plus some of my own reservations. So far it would appear the risk assessments and SOP's would appear to have been done, no i havent seen them.
The most interesting result from the article is the sponsership that will possibly lead on from it. At the moment a very wealthy UK resident is looking at funding a fully equipped " fire and rescue " helicopter, I am afraid I dont know anything further. For JP to say he is wealthy means he is in the super league.
Perhaps the outcome will be better than most fear, if nothing else we might see a " fire and rescue heli" much like the air ambulance system, after all it is about speed of reaction " The Golden hour" no good having an air ambulance there if you cant get the people out .
A personl request here please do not shoot the messanger. I have no control over JP but he does ask me for advice on some areas, yes I have explained our reservations.
He was very concerned that this was not a safe thing to do and asked if I would do such a thing ( I went for the obvious answer)What he is doing is the following
1. Recce of the fire with the incident commander already done a trial on a live factory fire, result was positive with brigade being very happy as result a reckeoned 12 hours less time on scene.
2. JP has funded the pods, these are US Fire Dept cutting kit, which is battery powered and doesnt rely on massive hydraulic pumps. In most cases it out performs the old systems currently used ( so I am told) The pod fits easily in the back of a 500. These latest systems cant be afforded by the Brigades
Overall the " service " is a recce and move equipment to areas that would be difficult for a normal pump to get to. I have gone over the various things that have been bought up by the " Rotorheads Panel "plus some of my own reservations. So far it would appear the risk assessments and SOP's would appear to have been done, no i havent seen them.
The most interesting result from the article is the sponsership that will possibly lead on from it. At the moment a very wealthy UK resident is looking at funding a fully equipped " fire and rescue " helicopter, I am afraid I dont know anything further. For JP to say he is wealthy means he is in the super league.
Perhaps the outcome will be better than most fear, if nothing else we might see a " fire and rescue heli" much like the air ambulance system, after all it is about speed of reaction " The Golden hour" no good having an air ambulance there if you cant get the people out .
A personl request here please do not shoot the messanger. I have no control over JP but he does ask me for advice on some areas, yes I have explained our reservations.
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I understand that after their trial, Avon & Somerset F&R (OR AT LEAST F&R FOR THAT AREA) are planning to contract for a ME hele to do what JP is planning to do. Invitations to bid have gone out to a number of AOC holders. We are talking something like an EC145 I am told.
I have real reservations about the viability of any of these models.
This is not to say that occasionally a Fire Service has not made very good use of a police hele with FLIR. The camera provides brilliant information about a fire. My reservations are more to do with the frequency with which a hele might be useful, and what other things a stretched emergency service might usefully spend its money on. Given that Trumpington, ably assisted by central government, wasted £X00 M on their completely useless regional control rooms over the last few years, you cannot have much hope in their strategic decision making. Given that they know also didly squat about aviation, the chance of a right royal f****up must be quite high.
For me, one of the underlying problems is that the fire service seem to be planning to use the hele as a replacement for some other part of their existing setup: removing trucks and/or people. In an emergency, you cannot rely on a helicopter. As we all know there are countless reasons why we would not be able to turn up in all cases. So you would need to keep the existing setup, so no saving of money.
JP's Thunderbird outfit is, shall we say different. Reviewing H500s latest expose, the one thing that seems to be missing is input from a helicopter professional. You can bury yourself in risk assessments, but if those involved are not familiar with the hazards and risks of the particular operation, it is worse than a waste of time. It is worse than a waste of time because people are lulled into a false sense of security that RAs have been done, and that provides some sort of guarantee of safety. The RA process is just a framework: it does nothing without the involvement of relevant experienced people. The usual problem is that the hazard identification process will be flawed and miss entirely significant hazards.
I have real reservations about the viability of any of these models.
This is not to say that occasionally a Fire Service has not made very good use of a police hele with FLIR. The camera provides brilliant information about a fire. My reservations are more to do with the frequency with which a hele might be useful, and what other things a stretched emergency service might usefully spend its money on. Given that Trumpington, ably assisted by central government, wasted £X00 M on their completely useless regional control rooms over the last few years, you cannot have much hope in their strategic decision making. Given that they know also didly squat about aviation, the chance of a right royal f****up must be quite high.
For me, one of the underlying problems is that the fire service seem to be planning to use the hele as a replacement for some other part of their existing setup: removing trucks and/or people. In an emergency, you cannot rely on a helicopter. As we all know there are countless reasons why we would not be able to turn up in all cases. So you would need to keep the existing setup, so no saving of money.
JP's Thunderbird outfit is, shall we say different. Reviewing H500s latest expose, the one thing that seems to be missing is input from a helicopter professional. You can bury yourself in risk assessments, but if those involved are not familiar with the hazards and risks of the particular operation, it is worse than a waste of time. It is worse than a waste of time because people are lulled into a false sense of security that RAs have been done, and that provides some sort of guarantee of safety. The RA process is just a framework: it does nothing without the involvement of relevant experienced people. The usual problem is that the hazard identification process will be flawed and miss entirely significant hazards.
H500 - glad to hear JP has been in touch and you've had chance to express people's reservations.
On a different note perhaps if there was less of a stigma of ME/SE capability in EASA land the services might not struggle to procure helicopters.
Does anyone know if the fire brigade have to use ME helicopters? Would AS350B2/3s not be a good idea (or H500s at the very least!).
On a different note perhaps if there was less of a stigma of ME/SE capability in EASA land the services might not struggle to procure helicopters.
Does anyone know if the fire brigade have to use ME helicopters? Would AS350B2/3s not be a good idea (or H500s at the very least!).
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Thanks to H500 and JP for getting some of the details here and also for thedandyfiremans 'frontline' viewpoint.
Many points to discuss, but I think generous regular support of his local Air Ambulance (which just so happens to also be a police ac with all the cameras, nitesun, comms, dispensations etc etc) would be the way to go. Recently a large fire in the Midlands had the support of the 2 local police ac, with the air ambulance also on scene.
It would be very interesting to find out how many times the Wiltshire AA have been contacted by the fire service to assist in recent years, bearing in mind that the Wiltshire Air Ambulance flies 365 days a year, 19 hours a day.
'Battery powered cutting kit', now what kind of battery would that be then?
Dear JP, I'd like to see those Burma Spitfires airborne.
Many points to discuss, but I think generous regular support of his local Air Ambulance (which just so happens to also be a police ac with all the cameras, nitesun, comms, dispensations etc etc) would be the way to go. Recently a large fire in the Midlands had the support of the 2 local police ac, with the air ambulance also on scene.
It would be very interesting to find out how many times the Wiltshire AA have been contacted by the fire service to assist in recent years, bearing in mind that the Wiltshire Air Ambulance flies 365 days a year, 19 hours a day.
'Battery powered cutting kit', now what kind of battery would that be then?
Dear JP, I'd like to see those Burma Spitfires airborne.
Hughes 500, you need to appraise your buddy of the following circumstances before he wastes any more money on this heath robinson arrangement.
I don't know (or missed) who the fire brigade is, that he is talking to. But they need to understand that 'they' (whoever the individual officer is) cannot go directly to a private individual for business. The reason for this is because the service JP would end up offering would be one for reward or hire (not necessarily financial) and that has to be carried out by a professional (AOC) holder. Presumably JP doesn't have said license?
Second - he should have alarm bells ringing in this regard when the fireman asks if he can undersling a fireman on a rope
Thirdly, JP isn't allowed below 1500 feet over a built up area as he has to always retain an engine(s) out glide capability away from the houses/factories beneath him.
Fourthly, the CAA will audit him (if he has an AOC) and they will apply the normal EASA /UK regs for an emergency services helicopter which means it MUST be a ME aircraft.
Now we are in a whole new world of running costs. The best entry level helo for fire fighting activities used to be the BK117 this has been superceded by the EC145. The latter being a very competent emergency services aircraft.
[A cheap approach could perhaps be a twin squirrell or 355N.]
Now for the elephant in the room: The Fire Service in the UK is bust. They have NEVER had any money - not in the past and certainly will NEVER have spare cash in future after bungling the biggest PFI catastrophe ever several years ago with their new control centres, each costing tens of millions of pounds, dotted all round the country and all of them either unfit for purpose OR too expensive to run.
Several very efficient /effective AOC operators have bent over backwards to help the fire service (McAlpine/Eurocpoter/Premiair) in the past but the project has always floundered when the fire service realised how much it costs to run a 1 or 2 ship fire fighting unit. You probably wouldnt get much change out of 1.5 million a year minimum, with leased a/c never mind your own.
Tell your mate to wake up - smell the coffee and do what was suggested by SilSoe - give the money to the local well organised HEMS unit. He could even become a patron if he wants some close in action.
I don't know (or missed) who the fire brigade is, that he is talking to. But they need to understand that 'they' (whoever the individual officer is) cannot go directly to a private individual for business. The reason for this is because the service JP would end up offering would be one for reward or hire (not necessarily financial) and that has to be carried out by a professional (AOC) holder. Presumably JP doesn't have said license?
Second - he should have alarm bells ringing in this regard when the fireman asks if he can undersling a fireman on a rope
Thirdly, JP isn't allowed below 1500 feet over a built up area as he has to always retain an engine(s) out glide capability away from the houses/factories beneath him.
Fourthly, the CAA will audit him (if he has an AOC) and they will apply the normal EASA /UK regs for an emergency services helicopter which means it MUST be a ME aircraft.
Now we are in a whole new world of running costs. The best entry level helo for fire fighting activities used to be the BK117 this has been superceded by the EC145. The latter being a very competent emergency services aircraft.
[A cheap approach could perhaps be a twin squirrell or 355N.]
Now for the elephant in the room: The Fire Service in the UK is bust. They have NEVER had any money - not in the past and certainly will NEVER have spare cash in future after bungling the biggest PFI catastrophe ever several years ago with their new control centres, each costing tens of millions of pounds, dotted all round the country and all of them either unfit for purpose OR too expensive to run.
Several very efficient /effective AOC operators have bent over backwards to help the fire service (McAlpine/Eurocpoter/Premiair) in the past but the project has always floundered when the fire service realised how much it costs to run a 1 or 2 ship fire fighting unit. You probably wouldnt get much change out of 1.5 million a year minimum, with leased a/c never mind your own.
Tell your mate to wake up - smell the coffee and do what was suggested by SilSoe - give the money to the local well organised HEMS unit. He could even become a patron if he wants some close in action.
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"Given that Trumpington, ably assisted by central government, wasted £X00 M on their completely useless regional control rooms over the last few years, you cannot have much hope in their strategic decision making."
Sorry, that was NOTHING to do with us. That was all down to Fatty Prescott and his regionalisation agenda. We were the ones that were shouting from the rooftops about how much it was, and is still costing, but were ignored.
Sorry, that was NOTHING to do with us. That was all down to Fatty Prescott and his regionalisation agenda. We were the ones that were shouting from the rooftops about how much it was, and is still costing, but were ignored.
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Thomas Coupling is absolutely spot on - the fire service IS bust. My brigade are looking at a massive reduction in our funding from central government. Jobs, frontline firemen's jobs, are being lost. My own watch has seen a reduction in establisment from 15 blokes to 12 and our turntable ladder not replaced, three rescue tenders gone. These are the things that YOU, the public need, if, God forbid, your house catches fire or you crash your car (or helicopter!), NOT vanity projects like helicopters. In around the twenty years I've been in the job, we have made use of the police helicopter a handfull of times at major fires. Always willing to assist us, and, as I've said, the RAF would help, too.
About the battery kit, it's the same size as our cutters and spreaders, but it has a battery on it, (obviously!) a bit like a power drill, and it is already carried on a couple of our station's trucks. I believe that it is only a wee bit lighter than our standard stuff. Apparantly, it is good gear, BUT, the two 'Airborne' blokes would struggle like Hell to remove a roof on their own, I have no idea if they would have stabilisation blocks to stabilise the vehicle as you really can't start to cut a casualty out without doing this first, will they carry sharps protection, if they are 'first on scene', would they do trauma care on the casualty? So, if they do, they are down to one bloke doing the job that at least a minimum of six of us would be doing. I could go on. Interestingly, our chief, I think it was, when asked about the logistics of moving equipment from the aircraft to the actual incident replied that a fire engine could go to the aircraft and pick the stuff up!!!! I really wish we, as a service, would just go back to basics and do what we do best, as can be seen in the recent floods.
About the battery kit, it's the same size as our cutters and spreaders, but it has a battery on it, (obviously!) a bit like a power drill, and it is already carried on a couple of our station's trucks. I believe that it is only a wee bit lighter than our standard stuff. Apparantly, it is good gear, BUT, the two 'Airborne' blokes would struggle like Hell to remove a roof on their own, I have no idea if they would have stabilisation blocks to stabilise the vehicle as you really can't start to cut a casualty out without doing this first, will they carry sharps protection, if they are 'first on scene', would they do trauma care on the casualty? So, if they do, they are down to one bloke doing the job that at least a minimum of six of us would be doing. I could go on. Interestingly, our chief, I think it was, when asked about the logistics of moving equipment from the aircraft to the actual incident replied that a fire engine could go to the aircraft and pick the stuff up!!!! I really wish we, as a service, would just go back to basics and do what we do best, as can be seen in the recent floods.
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TC, I'm reading all this with interest and I agree with most of what has been said. But why do you say this:
Thirdly, JP isn't allowed below 1500 feet over a built up area
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At face value we have a guy here who is passionate about flying helicopters, wealthy, qualified,and seems to have time on his hands to do something beyond what the public purse can currently afford.
rather than the firefighting why not get in touch with those people trying to set-up the 'Childrens air ambulance' and offer a specialist 'specialist' transport service on call for a certain radius around his home? ie getting senior medical personnel from home to hospital etc?
rather than the firefighting why not get in touch with those people trying to set-up the 'Childrens air ambulance' and offer a specialist 'specialist' transport service on call for a certain radius around his home? ie getting senior medical personnel from home to hospital etc?
Shy: You're right, the correct regs state both the 1000'rule and also the 'alight clear' rule. In practice, with a SE helo, 1500' is barely adequate over a city centre, I would suggest, from experience.
Art of Flight - thats another hire/reward scheme requiring an AOC???? Conveying doctors/med eqpmnt/organs etc is an air ambulance AOC responsibility. He couldn't do that either.
If JP is reading this: You might be well meaning but understand there are "professionally trained" operators out there who do this for a living. There is no call for ad hoc assistance on days when it is cavok, open area, outcas, SE ops.
Art of Flight - thats another hire/reward scheme requiring an AOC???? Conveying doctors/med eqpmnt/organs etc is an air ambulance AOC responsibility. He couldn't do that either.
If JP is reading this: You might be well meaning but understand there are "professionally trained" operators out there who do this for a living. There is no call for ad hoc assistance on days when it is cavok, open area, outcas, SE ops.
For f**Ks sake - longlining a fireman underneath a SE helo to do swift water rescue!!!!! Are they complete idiots???
If that is how far they have researched this project then JP should walk away right now.
There is another thread running about someone being killed after being suspended under a H369 in the States.
The mind boggles!
If that is how far they have researched this project then JP should walk away right now.
There is another thread running about someone being killed after being suspended under a H369 in the States.
The mind boggles!