Big brother is watching................
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And on another note.....................
the bad boys are all laughing their socks off at us.
We introduce these ridiculous rules and regulations that all the good boys and girls follow to the letter but the bad boys ignore completely.
Anti-money laundering rules, border controls, data protection etc etc. The terrorists don't care - they circumvent them, they hide behind the Human Rights ****e, they falsify paperwork, bribe people in positions of trust or infiltrate them with like minded individuals and loads of other ways too.
The bad guys don't follow the rules !!
We should spend more time, effort and money on searching them out, hunting them down, kicking them out and not letting them in instead of cracking the whip on those of us that are law abiding, democracy respecting, citizens.
Joel
(My head is hurting now ;-) )
the bad boys are all laughing their socks off at us.
We introduce these ridiculous rules and regulations that all the good boys and girls follow to the letter but the bad boys ignore completely.
Anti-money laundering rules, border controls, data protection etc etc. The terrorists don't care - they circumvent them, they hide behind the Human Rights ****e, they falsify paperwork, bribe people in positions of trust or infiltrate them with like minded individuals and loads of other ways too.
The bad guys don't follow the rules !!
We should spend more time, effort and money on searching them out, hunting them down, kicking them out and not letting them in instead of cracking the whip on those of us that are law abiding, democracy respecting, citizens.
Joel
(My head is hurting now ;-) )
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JT, I agree. For some reason the situation we are now in reminds me of this oldie:
Joel:
Sorry - thought for a second you were talking about the government 
C'mon now - is it too much to ask for some info on your movements. After the Olympics, everything will return to "normal". The 'system' is trying to protect its citizen's.
We introduce these ridiculous rules and regulations that all the good boys and girls follow to the letter but the bad boys ignore completely.
Anti-money laundering rules, border controls, data protection etc etc. They hide behind the Human Rights ****e, they falsify paperwork, bribe people in positions of trust or infiltrate them with like minded individuals and loads of other ways too
Anti-money laundering rules, border controls, data protection etc etc. They hide behind the Human Rights ****e, they falsify paperwork, bribe people in positions of trust or infiltrate them with like minded individuals and loads of other ways too
C'mon now - is it too much to ask for some info on your movements. After the Olympics, everything will return to "normal". The 'system' is trying to protect its citizen's.
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Hi Thomas,
I'm a Patriot, pro-Monarchy, absolutely pro-Law Enforcement, but I'm sorry - yes it is too much to ask - especially because it's absolutely ineffective and does nothing to deter the bad guys.
Lets not forget, that if my aircraft intentionally or un-intentionally strays into the "Olympic Area", I'm going to get intercepted in seconds by two fighter jets and if I don't follow their instructions I'm likely to get brought down or shot down.
I don't know what the plan is if a transit van or other vehicle packed with bad stuff is driven near to an Olympic venue (I'm sure the intelligence services have a plan) but to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't include people turning up at hotels in cars hundreds of miles away from providing their personal details to people that have no way of verifying them.
The problem is that our countries plans for protecting our country are Politically Correct - and they shouldn't be.
Joel
I'm a Patriot, pro-Monarchy, absolutely pro-Law Enforcement, but I'm sorry - yes it is too much to ask - especially because it's absolutely ineffective and does nothing to deter the bad guys.
Lets not forget, that if my aircraft intentionally or un-intentionally strays into the "Olympic Area", I'm going to get intercepted in seconds by two fighter jets and if I don't follow their instructions I'm likely to get brought down or shot down.
I don't know what the plan is if a transit van or other vehicle packed with bad stuff is driven near to an Olympic venue (I'm sure the intelligence services have a plan) but to the best of my knowledge, it doesn't include people turning up at hotels in cars hundreds of miles away from providing their personal details to people that have no way of verifying them.
The problem is that our countries plans for protecting our country are Politically Correct - and they shouldn't be.
Joel
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I put posts one after the other to separate the different replies to different posts, otherwise you end up with on long post that some people then blend the answer to one question with the answer to another. Add a few quotes in there and it all becomes a bit much for some to separate what is trying to be said.
Apart from the fact that having normal women's lumpy bits does not exempt you from wearing a seat belt!!! And by the way, referring to people as 'hun' is sexist!
I just love this from JT;
Immediately followed by;
Cheap jibe, unwarranted and totally inaccurate.
So how well vetted are a local flying clubs staff or the staff at the location you operate your ac?
Oh really!!!! How can you possibly know that?
Sorry forgot, you must be MI-High
Still waiting for answers to my questions!
But I guess some of you are happy for all the security services to sit back and do nothing. In the aftermath you can from the comfort of your armchair then say how things should have been done :roll eyes:
Oh, by the way JT, just because I don't agree with your viewpoint or you with mine, doesn't make you right!
Hey ShyTorque, a bit brave putting the Smash advert up with Whirlygig here now!! Touchy subject in those parts!
It takes a girl to say it how it is ........
I just love this from JT;
I'll answer it for you - there is no absolutely no basis that requires me to complete it - Olympic Games or otherwise !
Unless of course, I'm planning on flying within the temporary boundaries defined for the Olympics,
(Hotel Staff) Probably vetted as much as the staff at your local flying club where you hire the ac from have been!!
C'mon guys ... we have all lived with terrorism for decades, and none of the measures made recently have made a whole helluva lot of difference.
Sorry forgot, you must be MI-High
Still waiting for answers to my questions!
But I guess some of you are happy for all the security services to sit back and do nothing. In the aftermath you can from the comfort of your armchair then say how things should have been done :roll eyes:
Oh, by the way JT, just because I don't agree with your viewpoint or you with mine, doesn't make you right!
Hey ShyTorque, a bit brave putting the Smash advert up with Whirlygig here now!! Touchy subject in those parts!
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Another post
JT
What is 'sensible information' in your eyes?
And what should 'they' be doing about aviation in the UK in the run up and during the Olympic period?
Do you not complete any, weight and balance data, check the met, do any pre flight planning, check Notam's put a simple line on a map or even sign for a check 'A'?
You asked me what MY plan would be - I answered it in the same sentence, but for some reason you ignored it. I said I would happily supply sensible information. I do NOT have to complete a GAR.
In terms of being an expert on National Security, I'm definateley not, but I am far more of an expert on it than you are, particularly as my business involves Law Enforcement and regularly deals with National Security.
In terms of paperwork, unless I'm mistaken, I'm not required to complete any paperwork before a flight - and I'm certainly not required to 'file' it with anyone.
In terms of being an expert on National Security, I'm definateley not, but I am far more of an expert on it than you are, particularly as my business involves Law Enforcement and regularly deals with National Security.
In terms of paperwork, unless I'm mistaken, I'm not required to complete any paperwork before a flight - and I'm certainly not required to 'file' it with anyone.
And what should 'they' be doing about aviation in the UK in the run up and during the Olympic period?
Do you not complete any, weight and balance data, check the met, do any pre flight planning, check Notam's put a simple line on a map or even sign for a check 'A'?
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First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
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yet another post !
Opinions on this subject and the whole Olympics issue with aviation is like the proverbial asshole, 'We all have one'.
Which one is right? Who knows until something or nothing happens?
Of course you don't have to provide a GAR to a hotel. As far as I grasp from your first post, the hotel you went to has simply been asked by the Police to keep a record of movements. Besides for flights within the UK there are indeed times when you do need to properly file a GAR.
Just because you don't have to do something doesn't mean you have to go out of your way and even upset people by making a point of not doing it!
Which one is right? Who knows until something or nothing happens?
Please tell me on what basis I am obligated to complete a GAR form and provide it to a hotel when my flight originates and end within the United Kingdom and does not cross an international boundary ???
Just because you don't have to do something doesn't mean you have to go out of your way and even upset people by making a point of not doing it!
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 19th Mar 2012 at 12:05.
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I watched a really good film last night Sid, "How To Lose Friends and Alienate People"
Doesn't the main character (Sidney) finally become successful, getting all the girls that were disgusted by him before and even catching the eye of the new rising star Sophie?
Whirlygig, get your coat, you've pulled luv!
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Just to join the poetry and Literature club here;
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
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Silsoe,
Youve done it again, you've omitted parts of my sentences that are the critical element.
Firstly, I said there is no requirement for me to complete a GAR form for flights originating within the UK (etc, etc) UNLESS I am entering the Olympic Airspace and then I only have to provide it to the apropriate AUTHORITY. In other words I am NOT obligated to provide it to a hotel. So you banged your head on a wall for no good reason. ;-)
Am I right or wrong ??? (For the avoidance of doubt, and to avoid some attempt at distraction, do I or don't I have to complete a GAR form and provide it to a hotel ???)
You also refer to my viewpoint - but we were discussing some facts which you have conveniently sidestepped. The first one I have covered above and the second relates to the filing of paperwork before a flight.
Completeing a weight and balance (and no I don't actually - I know I'm within it most flights and when I'm unsure I do one), checking weather and NOTAM's etc is not filingpaperwork with someone prior to my flight. So I'm certain that I'm also factually correct here also.
In terms of your viewpoint, of course you're entitled to it, and I respect that. Let me tell people mine. In the course of protecting this country and it's citizens I will happily comply with anything that is sensible and apropriate regardless of whether it's the Law or not.
But it should be exactly that 'sensible and apropriate' and I don't know what constitutes that but I'm certain that being asked to provide it at some places, and not others, with no verification process isn't it.
Joel
Youve done it again, you've omitted parts of my sentences that are the critical element.
Firstly, I said there is no requirement for me to complete a GAR form for flights originating within the UK (etc, etc) UNLESS I am entering the Olympic Airspace and then I only have to provide it to the apropriate AUTHORITY. In other words I am NOT obligated to provide it to a hotel. So you banged your head on a wall for no good reason. ;-)
Am I right or wrong ??? (For the avoidance of doubt, and to avoid some attempt at distraction, do I or don't I have to complete a GAR form and provide it to a hotel ???)
You also refer to my viewpoint - but we were discussing some facts which you have conveniently sidestepped. The first one I have covered above and the second relates to the filing of paperwork before a flight.
Completeing a weight and balance (and no I don't actually - I know I'm within it most flights and when I'm unsure I do one), checking weather and NOTAM's etc is not filingpaperwork with someone prior to my flight. So I'm certain that I'm also factually correct here also.
In terms of your viewpoint, of course you're entitled to it, and I respect that. Let me tell people mine. In the course of protecting this country and it's citizens I will happily comply with anything that is sensible and apropriate regardless of whether it's the Law or not.
But it should be exactly that 'sensible and apropriate' and I don't know what constitutes that but I'm certain that being asked to provide it at some places, and not others, with no verification process isn't it.
Joel
I totally agree with you Joel . Nobody has complained about the exclusion areas etc as that seems a perfectly rational and sensible thing to have .....those of us that are going about our business outside thse areas will i am sure keep an eye out for anything suspicious and will report it . I think a month hols abroad for everyone is the simplest way around it
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Silsoe,
Youve done it again, you've omitted parts of my sentences that are the critical element.
Firstly, I said there is no requirement for me to complete a GAR form for flights originating within the UK (etc, etc) UNLESS I am entering the Olympic Airspace and then I only have to provide it to the apropriate AUTHORITY. In other words I am NOT obligated to provide it to a hotel. So you banged your head on a wall for no good reason. ;-)
Am I right or wrong ??? (For the avoidance of doubt, and to avoid some attempt at distraction, do I or don't I have to complete a GAR form and provide it to a hotel ???)
Youve done it again, you've omitted parts of my sentences that are the critical element.
Firstly, I said there is no requirement for me to complete a GAR form for flights originating within the UK (etc, etc) UNLESS I am entering the Olympic Airspace and then I only have to provide it to the apropriate AUTHORITY. In other words I am NOT obligated to provide it to a hotel. So you banged your head on a wall for no good reason. ;-)
Am I right or wrong ??? (For the avoidance of doubt, and to avoid some attempt at distraction, do I or don't I have to complete a GAR form and provide it to a hotel ???)
Once again you have shown that you do not read other peoples posts before commenting on them. If you could do the decent thing please and read my post No 71 above, you will notice I said, "Of course you don't have to provide a GAR to a hotel."
How much clearer do I have to be to answer that question?
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Firstly, I said there is no requirement for me to complete a GAR form for flights originating within the UK (etc, etc) UNLESS I am entering the Olympic Airspace and then I only have to provide it to the apropriate AUTHORITY.
Sid, just look up the rules, will you? A GAR is definitely not required for an internal UK flight. It's not down to personal opinion.
This is either a case of simply stating what you decide suits your argument, or perhaps a problem with your geographical knowledge. Last time I looked, Northern Ireland was still part of the UK...as in the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. Of course you will know that a GAR is to be filed for a flight originating elsewhere in the UK to a landing site in Northern Ireland....wont you?
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Silsoe Sid
Then why the facetious comments in post 67 ???
You're inference was that I was contradicting myself - which I clearly was not. We've also now established that I was correct regarding the GAR and you were not.
So lets move on to the second point. What paperwork am I obligated to file before any flight I make ? An inference you made in post 50.
Silsoe, I've read the posts carefully, and I've replied, carefully. Perhaps you should too. :-)
I await your response to the filing of paper work.
Joel
Then why the facetious comments in post 67 ???
You're inference was that I was contradicting myself - which I clearly was not. We've also now established that I was correct regarding the GAR and you were not.
So lets move on to the second point. What paperwork am I obligated to file before any flight I make ? An inference you made in post 50.
Silsoe, I've read the posts carefully, and I've replied, carefully. Perhaps you should too. :-)
I await your response to the filing of paper work.
Joel
Joel , i would give up on Silsoe ...he is obviously brainwashed He is part of a minority group who are obviously happy to jump through hoops just for the sake of it !! The rest of us just want a well thought out system that will actually make the country safer and not just arse covering .
He is part of a minority group who are obviously happy to jump through hoops just for the sake of it !! The rest of us just want a well thought out system that will actually make the country safer and not just arse covering .
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JT
Your words about paperwork were;
Nobody has said you need to file your paperwork with anybody 
What troubles me though is that you have clearly said that you are not required to do any paperwork before going flying and therefore don't.
IMHO, pre flight planning, including weight and balance (that you have most clearly told us you do not do), and other aviation related tasks are paperwork. Fair enough, if you don't think so.
Much like the suitable questions that you would answer when asked, what is your definition of paperwork?
Surely to goodness, even if you scoff at W&B, checking the Met and Notam's are 'paperwork' in any aviators dictionary,
I'm sure your comment of...
...could become part of a CRM course sometime 
Hey Nigel, you still agreeing with JT on this?
Your words about paperwork were;
In terms of paperwork, unless I'm mistaken, I'm not required to complete any paperwork before a flight - and I'm certainly not required to 'file' it with anyone.
What troubles me though is that you have clearly said that you are not required to do any paperwork before going flying and therefore don't.
IMHO, pre flight planning, including weight and balance (that you have most clearly told us you do not do), and other aviation related tasks are paperwork. Fair enough, if you don't think so.
Much like the suitable questions that you would answer when asked, what is your definition of paperwork?
Surely to goodness, even if you scoff at W&B, checking the Met and Notam's are 'paperwork' in any aviators dictionary,
I'm sure your comment of...
Completeing a weight and balance (and no I don't actually - I know I'm within it most flights and when I'm unsure I do one),
Hey Nigel, you still agreeing with JT on this?