Big brother is watching................
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Big brother is watching................
All,
Today I landed at a hotel I regularly visit in Preston, Lancashire and on arrival I was asked to provide my full name and basic details of my flight as was my friend who also landed in his aircraft.
I've never been asked for my details at this location (or many others) and when we enquired as to why they required the information we were advised that it was a Police requirement.
This stirred my curiosity and the Manager offerred to show us the correspondence that he had received from the Lancashire constabulary. I regret not taking a copy of it, but basically, the hotel has been asked to provide details of any helicopters that land at their hotel during the run up period to the Olympics.
I'm not up to anything dodgy, so I have no real issues in supplying it, but I do feel slightly perturbed that my movements are potentially being recorded. I'm traditionally very pro-security but I'm having mixed feelings about it.
Any thoughts ?
Joel
Today I landed at a hotel I regularly visit in Preston, Lancashire and on arrival I was asked to provide my full name and basic details of my flight as was my friend who also landed in his aircraft.
I've never been asked for my details at this location (or many others) and when we enquired as to why they required the information we were advised that it was a Police requirement.
This stirred my curiosity and the Manager offerred to show us the correspondence that he had received from the Lancashire constabulary. I regret not taking a copy of it, but basically, the hotel has been asked to provide details of any helicopters that land at their hotel during the run up period to the Olympics.
I'm not up to anything dodgy, so I have no real issues in supplying it, but I do feel slightly perturbed that my movements are potentially being recorded. I'm traditionally very pro-security but I'm having mixed feelings about it.
Any thoughts ?
Joel
the hotel has been asked to provide details
Even though you are not doing anything "dodgy", it is one more intrusion into your private life.
I can say with reasonable certainly that the hotel has been visited by their local 'Project Pegasus' team, who are visiting every known place of GA activity - and probably put the fear of God into them. I had a recent visit from two very nice young ladies who came all the way from Luton, spent 20 minutes then left.
Here's a link to the GMP's Project Pegasus leaflet about it.
Make no mistake though: this is all about the Olympics.
Here's a link to the GMP's Project Pegasus leaflet about it.
Make no mistake though: this is all about the Olympics.
If you were not doing anything dodgy ...then why not ? There are plenty of dodgy things to do in helicopters you know !! I actually quite agree with you that it is disturbing ...just another nail in the coffin and it wont relax after the Olympics i bet .
I was told by the police that i must declare when i have a gun on board every time i call into Leeds for fuel, so they can come and check my licence .. .....now be aware that this is the opposite side of the public terminal .... On the basis that i want to be in and out in 10 mins, this didnt look very clever, as it would take them 30 mins to come around to see me ...
I told them that i refuse to do this as it would constitute a waste of police time in my book . ( Obviously the goodies will tell the police and then will ave the licence ...i imagine the baddies might just keep quiet ??...). I was then told i would be arrested if they found that i had landed and not informed them !!! For the next few weeks i studiously carried an empty gun case in and out of and around the helicopter waiting for them to pounce ....sadly they never noticed !!!!!!!!!!!!
Next time you land there say the purpose is to collect pornographic material and mind chhanging chemicals .....
I was told by the police that i must declare when i have a gun on board every time i call into Leeds for fuel, so they can come and check my licence .. .....now be aware that this is the opposite side of the public terminal .... On the basis that i want to be in and out in 10 mins, this didnt look very clever, as it would take them 30 mins to come around to see me ...
I told them that i refuse to do this as it would constitute a waste of police time in my book . ( Obviously the goodies will tell the police and then will ave the licence ...i imagine the baddies might just keep quiet ??...). I was then told i would be arrested if they found that i had landed and not informed them !!! For the next few weeks i studiously carried an empty gun case in and out of and around the helicopter waiting for them to pounce ....sadly they never noticed !!!!!!!!!!!!
Next time you land there say the purpose is to collect pornographic material and mind chhanging chemicals .....
My question is this:
Under what authority do they have to collect this information? One assumes there are laws and rules of procedure....surely they cannot just make up rules?
Under what authority do they have to collect this information? One assumes there are laws and rules of procedure....surely they cannot just make up rules?
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Looked at from Blighty, no surprise about the initiative, but it does seem a bit premature, or would the excuse be that they are just practising? It will be interesting to see whether it goes away after the big event.
All sorts of rights are being suspended in the name of the Olympics. Small industries are being put at risk, lives disrupted. Woe betide anyone who seriously questions anything done in its name.
I hope it is worth it, but personally I will be keeping well clear.
Gordy asks a good question. I think the answer is that the rules are written so widely that an official can interpret almost any reaction as sufficiently subversive to make trouble for you, and warrant further "investigation".
Try making any comment about pointless, time-wasting, arbitrary, ineffectual security measures at our airports. You will be whisked away and spend a very uncomfortable time so they make their point and preserve their careers.
It is (or should be) all a question of balance, but CT security is the new "health and safety": no one is allowed to question anything done in its name no matter how marginal.
The irony is that we "oppose" terrorism because of its threat to our rights and freedoms like the right to free speech, including the right to complain about stupid rules. Terrorists can achieve their goals in more than one way.
I am just a number..........
All sorts of rights are being suspended in the name of the Olympics. Small industries are being put at risk, lives disrupted. Woe betide anyone who seriously questions anything done in its name.
I hope it is worth it, but personally I will be keeping well clear.
Gordy asks a good question. I think the answer is that the rules are written so widely that an official can interpret almost any reaction as sufficiently subversive to make trouble for you, and warrant further "investigation".
Try making any comment about pointless, time-wasting, arbitrary, ineffectual security measures at our airports. You will be whisked away and spend a very uncomfortable time so they make their point and preserve their careers.
It is (or should be) all a question of balance, but CT security is the new "health and safety": no one is allowed to question anything done in its name no matter how marginal.
The irony is that we "oppose" terrorism because of its threat to our rights and freedoms like the right to free speech, including the right to complain about stupid rules. Terrorists can achieve their goals in more than one way.
I am just a number..........
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Gordy,
Technically they have no authority to ask, and there is no requirement for me to supply, it or even provide the correct information. This would then basically make a mockery of the whole thing (not unless they were a Police Officer)
It's not as if someone up to 'no good' is realistically going to provide the correct credentials, assuming of course they were stupid enough to arrive in such an attention drawing style, and in a public place.
I can see the conversation now.
Joel
Technically they have no authority to ask, and there is no requirement for me to supply, it or even provide the correct information. This would then basically make a mockery of the whole thing (not unless they were a Police Officer)
It's not as if someone up to 'no good' is realistically going to provide the correct credentials, assuming of course they were stupid enough to arrive in such an attention drawing style, and in a public place.
I can see the conversation now.
Hotel Manager "Excuse me sir, would you mind answering a few questions about your machine gun-toting, missile laden helicopter. I'm going to need your name, point of departure and purpose of your journey "
Pilot "No problem, Osama bin Laden, departed from a secret location somewhere in the U.K and the purpose of my visit - Terrorism."
Hotel Manager "Thank you sir, enjoy your stay."
Pilot "No problem, Osama bin Laden, departed from a secret location somewhere in the U.K and the purpose of my visit - Terrorism."
Hotel Manager "Thank you sir, enjoy your stay."
Joel
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I have no problems with that at all if they want to know where I am and what I am doing 24/7 that's fine, which is what I said to the nice man from the CAA at Cheltneham today . But are they also at every train station and bus stop checking who is getting on and off and at every mosque to see if there is anything dodgy going on ?????
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JT, I'm intrigued, did you book into the hotels landing site before you got there?
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Very recently, on booking a future landing at a hotel not far from there I was informed that I would need to fill out a GAR form at least two days in advance (a copy of which was sent to me by email), obviously requiring full details of the flight and persons on board, including passport numbers etc.
I asked which authority had demanded this and was told it was the local police. I refused, as this is not an international flight. The manager said that this would have to be checked with the police. It was checked out (!) and I was later told that I was correct.
I asked which authority had demanded this and was told it was the local police. I refused, as this is not an international flight. The manager said that this would have to be checked with the police. It was checked out (!) and I was later told that I was correct.
What utter ****e!!!!!!
Project Pegasus should be renamed Project Headless Chicken
As if Terrorist XYZ (no colloquialism as I've attended an EASA PC CRM Course) is gonna head for afternoon tea in a helicopter prior to committing a massive atrocity!!! God be with you. I fancy a reet nice brew n t'scones before we head off t'Stratford. Let's indulge ourselves before we meet all them t'virgins...
Get with the program PP (maybe aptly named afterall...!)
We've all seen what happens to a light helicopter when it loses an argument with the ground/a building i.e. helicopter disappears with a bang/flash. What about all those 40 tonne lorries and coaches and vans and cars in London? Or remote control planes or individuals? What about the subways/tubes/trains/buses? What about the waterways, cyclists, dog walkers, tourists.... etc etc.
My friend was recently visited by PP regarding his helicopter. During the 2 hours interrogation he was informed how he may be forced at gunpoint to fly his helicopter and commit various offences etc etc. Ironically as PP left he TOLD THEM about his firearms licence and the weapon(s) he had - they didn't even know about them!
It's all an absolute joke because they don't have a clue.
They are scared.
Terrorism wins again
Sad state of affairs.
BLUE
ARSE
FLIES
Project Pegasus should be renamed Project Headless Chicken
As if Terrorist XYZ (no colloquialism as I've attended an EASA PC CRM Course) is gonna head for afternoon tea in a helicopter prior to committing a massive atrocity!!! God be with you. I fancy a reet nice brew n t'scones before we head off t'Stratford. Let's indulge ourselves before we meet all them t'virgins...
Get with the program PP (maybe aptly named afterall...!)
We've all seen what happens to a light helicopter when it loses an argument with the ground/a building i.e. helicopter disappears with a bang/flash. What about all those 40 tonne lorries and coaches and vans and cars in London? Or remote control planes or individuals? What about the subways/tubes/trains/buses? What about the waterways, cyclists, dog walkers, tourists.... etc etc.
My friend was recently visited by PP regarding his helicopter. During the 2 hours interrogation he was informed how he may be forced at gunpoint to fly his helicopter and commit various offences etc etc. Ironically as PP left he TOLD THEM about his firearms licence and the weapon(s) he had - they didn't even know about them!
It's all an absolute joke because they don't have a clue.
They are scared.
Terrorism wins again
Sad state of affairs.
BLUE
ARSE
FLIES
I've always wondered about this business of forcing a pilot to do something at gunpoint - even more so in a heli. If the bad guys shoot the pilot they will certainly die without having completed their mission - so no virgins etc. Of course they may not be entirely rational. I guess it's a bluffing game and if I was on the wrong end of the gun maybe I'd go along quietly, even knowing that having helped them commit their atrocity they'd probably shoot me anyway. But still it doesn't survive a rational analysis.
(I can't comment on Project Pegasus since fortunately for me I'm 6000 miles away from the Olympics madness).
(I can't comment on Project Pegasus since fortunately for me I'm 6000 miles away from the Olympics madness).
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
What utter ****e!!!!!!
Project Pegasus should be renamed Project Headless Chicken
As if Terrorist XYZ (no colloquialism as I've attended an EASA PC CRM Course) is gonna head for afternoon tea in a helicopter prior to committing a massive atrocity!!! God be with you. I fancy a reet nice brew n t'scones before we head off t'Stratford. Let's indulge ourselves before we meet all them t'virgins...
Project Pegasus should be renamed Project Headless Chicken
As if Terrorist XYZ (no colloquialism as I've attended an EASA PC CRM Course) is gonna head for afternoon tea in a helicopter prior to committing a massive atrocity!!! God be with you. I fancy a reet nice brew n t'scones before we head off t'Stratford. Let's indulge ourselves before we meet all them t'virgins...
6 July 2005
London won the competition to host the 2012 Olympic Games.
7 July 2005
09.06: Hussain goes into McDonald’s on Euston Road, leaving about ten minutes later.
09.47: The bomb goes off, killing 14 people, including Hussain, and injuring over 110.
Report of the Official Account of the Bombings in London on 7th July 2005
Perhaps I was a little unclear; McDonalds in Euston by bus/tube for a £3 burger is certainly not a posh Hotel in Lancashire for afternoon tea by helicopter £25+landing fee...
Is there an equivalent of Project Pegasus (Project Heffer) getting every Happy Meal consumer to leave all their contact details (just in case!).
Is there an equivalent of Project Pegasus (Project Heffer) getting every Happy Meal consumer to leave all their contact details (just in case!).
Last edited by misterbonkers; 17th Mar 2012 at 08:26.
What’s with you guys?
The police are trying to do their job. You’d be the first to winge if by some chance you were the poor guy who was hijacked, or whatever. Or you were on the receiving end of whatever was planned. Of course the bad guys will find another way if they’re determined – or lucky. But why make it easy for them.
Put yourself in the position of whoever is responsible for aviation security prior to and during the Olympics. Would you consider helicopters a threat? Of course you would…
A quick check on the net shows 37 escape attempts from prisons using a helicopter. Two thirds were successful. And that list is far from complete.
I’m also dislike Big Brother – but sometimes methinks you protest too much.
The police are trying to do their job. You’d be the first to winge if by some chance you were the poor guy who was hijacked, or whatever. Or you were on the receiving end of whatever was planned. Of course the bad guys will find another way if they’re determined – or lucky. But why make it easy for them.
Put yourself in the position of whoever is responsible for aviation security prior to and during the Olympics. Would you consider helicopters a threat? Of course you would…
A quick check on the net shows 37 escape attempts from prisons using a helicopter. Two thirds were successful. And that list is far from complete.
I’m also dislike Big Brother – but sometimes methinks you protest too much.
They're going about things the wrong way - there is clearly a distinct lack of aviation knowledge and they're asking people for information that makes no sense.
One friend that was visited was told they had problems getting hold of him to arrange a visit DESPITE his address being on G-INFO and despite his contact details being lodged with the CAA! Not knowing he had a firearms licence too? Come on! Is that modern day Policing at it's finest? How about asking a local helicopter flying school for contact details?
Another friend visited was not at home when they called so they asked lots of questions of his wife about him! They didn't know about his patriotic history with the armed forces against the Russians in Germany and terrorists in Northern Ireland. They were more interested in how many take-offs and landings he did each month - an issue more likely to lead to planning issues then terrorism!
Two GA pilots landed at a London aerodrome and we're told by visiting officers that they had committed an offence by not filing a GAR or requesting PPR - it was a local flight! The officers stood corrected.
One friend that was visited was told they had problems getting hold of him to arrange a visit DESPITE his address being on G-INFO and despite his contact details being lodged with the CAA! Not knowing he had a firearms licence too? Come on! Is that modern day Policing at it's finest? How about asking a local helicopter flying school for contact details?
Another friend visited was not at home when they called so they asked lots of questions of his wife about him! They didn't know about his patriotic history with the armed forces against the Russians in Germany and terrorists in Northern Ireland. They were more interested in how many take-offs and landings he did each month - an issue more likely to lead to planning issues then terrorism!
Two GA pilots landed at a London aerodrome and we're told by visiting officers that they had committed an offence by not filing a GAR or requesting PPR - it was a local flight! The officers stood corrected.
Last edited by misterbonkers; 17th Mar 2012 at 10:11.
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I’m also dislike Big Brother – but sometimes methinks you protest too much.
I've had people aggressively demand to see my passport for an eight minute private flight from London Heliport to RAF Northolt! Yet there is absolutely no legal requirement for me to carry a passport, or even to hold a passport for internal flights within UK. My co-pilot challenged the demand and an immigration officer was immediately called. She asked us to repeat where we had flown in from and the information was repeated. Thankfully, she was more sensible and told the military person not to be so silly. Problem is, we have many people in posts of authority who do not have the intelligence to know the relevant aviation rules.
What's next, advance permission to drive to work ? Papieren, Bitte!
Last edited by ShyTorque; 17th Mar 2012 at 23:52. Reason: remove typo, no change to sentiment
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Well said Prawn2king4
So, let me get this right.
When some of you book out of an airfield for example, you (would) also refuse to give your details, either on the phone, face to face or over the radio before you lifted? Do you pre book in to a location for any kind of flight following safety measure?
What if the airfield or even the hotels need/would like the details for their records, movements, insurance, trends to analyse for improvements to be made? Does a licensed airfield have an obligation to take movement details?
Don't ever go filling in a flight plan then!
So, let me get this right.
When some of you book out of an airfield for example, you (would) also refuse to give your details, either on the phone, face to face or over the radio before you lifted? Do you pre book in to a location for any kind of flight following safety measure?
What if the airfield or even the hotels need/would like the details for their records, movements, insurance, trends to analyse for improvements to be made? Does a licensed airfield have an obligation to take movement details?
I'm not up to anything dodgy, so I have no real issues in supplying it, but I do feel slightly perturbed that my movements are potentially being recorded.
Silsoe .....cheap shot . We all happily tell ATC details going from an airport ...this has as much to do with knowing our probable route in the event we go missing . This is totally different and will result in a system like Russia where you have to have permission from Moscow for any flight , anywhere , even local . We were getting permission from Moscow for 5 min hops right up in the Kola peninsular !!!!!!!
We have let the CAA grow into a monster which has smothered and killed probably 50% of all small aoc companies and we have done nothing to stop them ......now we have the spectre of the police doing the same thing and we should react before it becomes the norm . Nobody is going to charter a helicopter from A to B if it involves waiting for 30 mins for a police check .
Just politely give them name and address and refuse to play their game if it is not a legal requirement .
on a lighter note i see the police are going to demand that new recruits can at least spell their name to get onto the force ....a good move as there was no intelligence required at all previously ..........
We have let the CAA grow into a monster which has smothered and killed probably 50% of all small aoc companies and we have done nothing to stop them ......now we have the spectre of the police doing the same thing and we should react before it becomes the norm . Nobody is going to charter a helicopter from A to B if it involves waiting for 30 mins for a police check .
Just politely give them name and address and refuse to play their game if it is not a legal requirement .
on a lighter note i see the police are going to demand that new recruits can at least spell their name to get onto the force ....a good move as there was no intelligence required at all previously ..........