UK NPAS discussion: thread Mk 2
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Resignation
Morris, don't go thinking that you can delete your posts.
pprune mods can and have reinstated posts deleted by me, and even an entire thread that I started and then deleted, was reinstated with me excluded from it.
Your previous words may well be written in stone, but I'm sure I speak for many in saying thank you for your contribution.
I understand where you are coming from, but try to understand that NPAS is not yet a failure and may well be a roaring success. The object is not to provide Air Support, it is to provide "something" that costs less money.
They are not trying to do the same for less, they are just trying to do less with less.
pprune mods can and have reinstated posts deleted by me, and even an entire thread that I started and then deleted, was reinstated with me excluded from it.
Your previous words may well be written in stone, but I'm sure I speak for many in saying thank you for your contribution.
I understand where you are coming from, but try to understand that NPAS is not yet a failure and may well be a roaring success. The object is not to provide Air Support, it is to provide "something" that costs less money.
They are not trying to do the same for less, they are just trying to do less with less.
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Sad times when people feel they cannot air what they believe to be their legitimate views 
I think everyone knows that they shouldn't rely on PPrune being anonymous,
and that those bound by certain rules and regulations to do with disclosure of, for example, Restricted information,
should not post such information here, but as far as I recall, the vast majority of posts on here
have all supported the principle of a National Air Support Service ( as I do
), and have merely been discussing / debating ways
of making such a service as good as it can be in the circumstances.
Such debate will inevitably raise objections to some aspects of the service, with the hope of improving on them -
that's the whole point isn't it - so what's wrong with that ?
As a side note I notice that "Inspector Gadget" seems to have retired too -
Perhaps he / she is one of those referred to by morris1 as a "High profile officer" ?
I think everyone knows that they shouldn't rely on PPrune being anonymous,
and that those bound by certain rules and regulations to do with disclosure of, for example, Restricted information,
should not post such information here, but as far as I recall, the vast majority of posts on here
have all supported the principle of a National Air Support Service ( as I do
), and have merely been discussing / debating ways of making such a service as good as it can be in the circumstances.
Such debate will inevitably raise objections to some aspects of the service, with the hope of improving on them -
that's the whole point isn't it - so what's wrong with that ?
As a side note I notice that "Inspector Gadget" seems to have retired too -
Perhaps he / she is one of those referred to by morris1 as a "High profile officer" ?
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More than anything else, this is about the people in charge, making decisions.
They have decided to go down the NPAS route and spend less money doing that instead of doing what used to be done. That is the priority here and has been from day one. They are not trying to provide the great service that we all were used to having, they are trying to spend less money. That's it.
NPAS, without doubt, WILL BE CHEAPER, just as closing down Air Support entirely would be cheaper.
I am not in favour of this, I just see that it is going to keep on happening, it is of no consequence to the paymasters that the troops are revolting.
Chain of command, do as you are told, etc.
They have decided to go down the NPAS route and spend less money doing that instead of doing what used to be done. That is the priority here and has been from day one. They are not trying to provide the great service that we all were used to having, they are trying to spend less money. That's it.
NPAS, without doubt, WILL BE CHEAPER, just as closing down Air Support entirely would be cheaper.
I am not in favour of this, I just see that it is going to keep on happening, it is of no consequence to the paymasters that the troops are revolting.
Chain of command, do as you are told, etc.
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I am amazed that Chief Cons have gone along with this spin and accepted a drop in service for not a lot of financial return (if any)
Reminds me of the time that a Divisional commander in a drug torn Manchester division cured the Drug problem overnight, he disbanded the very effective Drug unit. As they were the only ones submitting detected Crime reports these instantly dried up, no crime reports therefore no drug crime, solved
Feel sorry for all you guys and gals who are having to put up with this crap, I also feel sorry for all the troops who used to be able to get help from above in minutes, I left the job happy knowing that it was in good hands being staffed by keen very effective and motivated bobbies. I didnt reckon on you all getting shafted to the point of not being able to voice your concerns. Its all very sad indeed.
Reminds me of the time that a Divisional commander in a drug torn Manchester division cured the Drug problem overnight, he disbanded the very effective Drug unit. As they were the only ones submitting detected Crime reports these instantly dried up, no crime reports therefore no drug crime, solved
Feel sorry for all you guys and gals who are having to put up with this crap, I also feel sorry for all the troops who used to be able to get help from above in minutes, I left the job happy knowing that it was in good hands being staffed by keen very effective and motivated bobbies. I didnt reckon on you all getting shafted to the point of not being able to voice your concerns. Its all very sad indeed.
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It seems like people are resigned to the fact that NPAS is what it is and nothing can be done to change the beast.
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Contracts and the police rumour network
The story about a certain culture club and how a book started a corruption probe into who got what.
BBC News - Cleveland Police deputy chief constable Derek Bonnard sacked
BBC News - Cleveland Police chief Sean Price sacked after inquiry
"The life & times of sleepy hollow" by PC North.
Who would have thought back in 2010 when the book came out about a certain culture club that both the chief and deputy chief of Smoggy would be sacked for gross misconduct!
Rumour has it that the ongoing Sacristy probe is now looking at a couple of other forces nearby into certain expensive contracts and a certain aviation company.
You couldnt make it up.
BBC News - Cleveland Police deputy chief constable Derek Bonnard sacked
BBC News - Cleveland Police chief Sean Price sacked after inquiry
"The life & times of sleepy hollow" by PC North.
Who would have thought back in 2010 when the book came out about a certain culture club that both the chief and deputy chief of Smoggy would be sacked for gross misconduct!
Rumour has it that the ongoing Sacristy probe is now looking at a couple of other forces nearby into certain expensive contracts and a certain aviation company.
You couldnt make it up.
Yeah but that sort of thing couldn't happen now that a big organisation is in charge of the whole thing could it..!
I mean they wouldn't close down directly employed Police maintenance bases if a commercial company wasn't doing it for less money now would they...? Surely the tendering process that would have to be done would prove that the commercial company was saving the tax payer money..!
Although...They did go out to tender, didn't they..?
Big contracts for the public sector don't get awarded via the back door nowadays.
Do they...
I mean they wouldn't close down directly employed Police maintenance bases if a commercial company wasn't doing it for less money now would they...? Surely the tendering process that would have to be done would prove that the commercial company was saving the tax payer money..!
Although...They did go out to tender, didn't they..?
Big contracts for the public sector don't get awarded via the back door nowadays.
Do they...
If an engineering set up becomes untenable - unable to provide a service through a lack of certified person power for instance - the 'Authorities' have no real option but to do something about it and quickly. In that instance there would be no need for an immediate tender process. It would therefore be a while before a tender was formulated, offered and let.
Through a lack of engineers, there were originally three maintaining one aircraft, one operation recent stopped maintaining its own aircraft.
The South Yorkshire Explorer was reported to have been roaded into Staverton last week to have its annual completed in time for the start of NPAS from April 3. The a/c will not be an NPAS resource so this is a SY decision.
If we assume that the South Yorkshire engineering set up is not going to be brought back [they never replaced the engineer that left last summer] what are the options?
To my knowledge only three UK based operations would care to bid for maintaining an Explorer. One is a police operated operation in Suffolk [and that was rejected when the work was needed in a hurry this time], the others are at Staverton and Leeds.
Through a lack of engineers, there were originally three maintaining one aircraft, one operation recent stopped maintaining its own aircraft.
The South Yorkshire Explorer was reported to have been roaded into Staverton last week to have its annual completed in time for the start of NPAS from April 3. The a/c will not be an NPAS resource so this is a SY decision.
If we assume that the South Yorkshire engineering set up is not going to be brought back [they never replaced the engineer that left last summer] what are the options?
To my knowledge only three UK based operations would care to bid for maintaining an Explorer. One is a police operated operation in Suffolk [and that was rejected when the work was needed in a hurry this time], the others are at Staverton and Leeds.
The South Yorkshire Explorer was reported to have been roaded into Staverton last week to have its annual completed in time for the start of NPAS from April 3.
Easter weekend is approaching.
That leaves 3 working days before the NE region launch.
I think they will be an aircraft short next week..!!
You would've thought that w.yorks would have wanted their home region to be a bit of a flagship and planned the servicing a bit better..
Back to the beat...... I thought that the MD902 G-SYPS is not an NPAS aircraft [yet]. It is an addition to the litter and outside the NPAS service provision and maintenace servicing domain........ isn't it?
And I am not sure its position in relation to NPAS will change on April 3. Will it not still remain the property of the SYP?
Corrections accepted!
And I am not sure its position in relation to NPAS will change on April 3. Will it not still remain the property of the SYP?
Corrections accepted!
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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You'd think someone would have replied within 20 minutes....
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"Someone" is probably still working out :
the stop watch will be started
- Whether a reply is actually going to be provided ( checking flow charts )
- Who is best placed and available to provide the reply
the stop watch will be started
Last edited by Coconutty; 6th Apr 2013 at 08:21.
Just been off for a few days. NPAS 31 were quite busy on their first night(or rather early morning), but on the early morning on 2 Apr, nobody in the NW/NE areas flew after about 0130. Or if they did, we didn't hear them on the radios.