UK NPAS discussion: thread Mk 2
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Well, it's clear that the committee has agreed that your new policy is a really excellent plan but in view of some of the doubts being expressed, may I propose that I recall that after careful consideration, the considered view of the committee was that while they considered that the proposal met with broad approval in principle, that some of the principles were sufficiently fundamental in principle and some of the considerations so complex and finely balanced in practice, that, in principle, it was proposed that the sensible and prudent practice would be to submit the proposal for more detailed consideration, laying stress on the essential continuity of the new proposal with existing principles, and the principle of the principal arguments which the proposal proposes and propounds for their approval in principle.
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so ive been trying to find a bit more info about the performance of the NWAOG... Mainly to see how the loss of the merseyside a/c has effected policing there..
so far ive only found this
tweeted 332 days ago.. ??
so far ive only found this
Twitter
we're now part of a regional collab with other NW police forces, we're ironing a few issues and will be tweeting again soon
332 days ago
we're now part of a regional collab with other NW police forces, we're ironing a few issues and will be tweeting again soon
332 days ago
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Ah... I've read a little more into your post then, and perhaps assume you some have first hand knowledge..!!
I'm curious because obviously merseyside is/was one of the first big urban areas to lose its a/c.
So I was wondering how that has affected what I consider the main areas of work a police work, ie catching baddies.
So.
Do a/c get many jobs where arrests happen in Liverpool that are found by the a/c..?
And do a/c get on many pursuits in Liverpool/merseyside. ?
I'm curious because obviously merseyside is/was one of the first big urban areas to lose its a/c.
So I was wondering how that has affected what I consider the main areas of work a police work, ie catching baddies.
So.
Do a/c get many jobs where arrests happen in Liverpool that are found by the a/c..?
And do a/c get on many pursuits in Liverpool/merseyside. ?
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OR.
I'm a cop in a region where an a/c is going to be removed from service from a major population centre. And I'm looking for some hard facts to give to people when I'm constantly asked about what's happening...!!
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Where was this post advertised...
...or was it yet another shifty passing wink, along a darkened corridor, many moons ago, in a government department that doesn't exist yet!
I shall await Agent 'J' asking me to look into the light....
...or was it yet another shifty passing wink, along a darkened corridor, many moons ago, in a government department that doesn't exist yet!
I shall await Agent 'J' asking me to look into the light....
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If Lizard is taking the reins, that'll be a huge pick-me-up for NPAS. Good to have a real jockey in the saddle, someone who knows how to lead a Cavalry charge . . . although sadly becoming more the "Trot of the Light(weight) Brigade", supported by guns of too short range to engage the enemy! 
P.S. Not sure if it's planned for GOD to manage the guns?
P.S. Not sure if it's planned for GOD to manage the guns?
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Just to prove what an absolute waste of time NPAS will be. I saw this statistic today.
"the 3p per litre rise in fuel duty would raise 600 million pounds for the government".
So NPAS are scratching around trying to save the odd million here and there and all that the cost of the UK's very effective police air support. (well it is in my region anyway, I'm not so sure about Hampshire.)
If the government can raise £600m with one small flick of the pen like that, they won't give a toss about the pennies that NPAS are trying to save. Hopefully it will all fall over before too much damage is done.
"the 3p per litre rise in fuel duty would raise 600 million pounds for the government".
So NPAS are scratching around trying to save the odd million here and there and all that the cost of the UK's very effective police air support. (well it is in my region anyway, I'm not so sure about Hampshire.)
If the government can raise £600m with one small flick of the pen like that, they won't give a toss about the pennies that NPAS are trying to save. Hopefully it will all fall over before too much damage is done.
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So NPAS are scratching around trying to save the odd million here and there and all that the cost of the UK's very effective police air support. (well it is in my region anyway, I'm not so sure about Hampshire.)
If so, what basis do you have for that comment, and what region (yours) are you comparing it to. Do you have figures please?
See, I wanted the Ground Operations Director job just for the acronym.
Ah, well, I suppose I'll stick with JAFO instead.
Ah, well, I suppose I'll stick with JAFO instead.
Last edited by J.A.F.O.; 29th Jun 2012 at 13:46.
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Flight International
Is it me or has anyone's else noticed the lack of any articles about NPAS in Flight International? I mean I would have thought this is a very very big story considering NPAS most probably will mean the demise of the worlds premier Police Avation Industry?
Discuss......
Discuss......
Perhaps Flight International are not interested!
Generally speaking, these days, Flight are more into airliners and military with a bit of space and have never ventured a great deal into rotary aviation. They seem to have even given up the annual helicopter issue.
I doubt Ollie and Co would shy away from any enquiry Flight may make but the exposure seems to be niche magazine and local newspapers because that is where the editorial demand is.
The latest item I am aware of is in the latest edition of Waypoint AirMed & Rescue magazine [out this past week] and Ollie speaks in there. It is an issue foccussed on ALE.
I know that he is also talking to the editor of Air Beat the [US] Airborne Law Enforcement Association house magazine .... again ...niche. Not seen anything in print yet from them, that may be a post Olympic issue.
For most though there is no story. 18 months ago a plan was announced and carried by most publications, there have been adjustments in detail [which would be lost in Flight or Rotor & Wing even if they appeared] but the storyline remains pretty much unchanged until the show gets on the road around October time. They may stir their pens, intercept your mobile phone calls and bug the crew rooms but really nothing much is going to happen to NPAS this side of Christmas that will interest the Eskimos and Fijians.... so your expectation is perhaps over valuing the storyline.
The only near term storyline is Olympic Security but that is not for talking about until after September when its all over..... and hey, thats called October which is where we came in!
Generally speaking, these days, Flight are more into airliners and military with a bit of space and have never ventured a great deal into rotary aviation. They seem to have even given up the annual helicopter issue.
I doubt Ollie and Co would shy away from any enquiry Flight may make but the exposure seems to be niche magazine and local newspapers because that is where the editorial demand is.
The latest item I am aware of is in the latest edition of Waypoint AirMed & Rescue magazine [out this past week] and Ollie speaks in there. It is an issue foccussed on ALE.
I know that he is also talking to the editor of Air Beat the [US] Airborne Law Enforcement Association house magazine .... again ...niche. Not seen anything in print yet from them, that may be a post Olympic issue.
For most though there is no story. 18 months ago a plan was announced and carried by most publications, there have been adjustments in detail [which would be lost in Flight or Rotor & Wing even if they appeared] but the storyline remains pretty much unchanged until the show gets on the road around October time. They may stir their pens, intercept your mobile phone calls and bug the crew rooms but really nothing much is going to happen to NPAS this side of Christmas that will interest the Eskimos and Fijians.... so your expectation is perhaps over valuing the storyline.
The only near term storyline is Olympic Security but that is not for talking about until after September when its all over..... and hey, thats called October which is where we came in!
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I tried to publish a link to the article, but was not able to. You normally get it by subscription.
I did read the article. From my recollection it was pretty much the NPAS "party line" given by Ollie to the journo.
I think we need to be realistic about the importance of this issue to others. It remains a niche interest, as PANews suggests. The aviation world as a whole could not care less. The UK police world has so many balls in the air, and they don't know what is going to hit them next. Some in the police may believe the NPAS propaganda at the moment: not everyone understands how police aviation had been optimised. Mostly politicians just want to make cuts.
One of the most hopeful audiences seemed to me to be those bidding to be future police commissioners. Whatever you may think of the idea of commissioners, it would be good to try and make use of them at this stage. They will all be very keen to please at present because they will want votes in November. Given what they are supposed to do once elected, you would hope they would want to represent their local police force interests. If it could be suggested to them that NPAS will produce inferior police air support for their police force, they may be prepared to raise questions about the NPAS steamroller. I recall a candidate for the Bedfordshire job had been opposing the closure of the Henlow base and removal of their aircraft in the media. That would be a good example, given the vast hole in coverage that will be opened up if Henlow goes.
I did read the article. From my recollection it was pretty much the NPAS "party line" given by Ollie to the journo.
I think we need to be realistic about the importance of this issue to others. It remains a niche interest, as PANews suggests. The aviation world as a whole could not care less. The UK police world has so many balls in the air, and they don't know what is going to hit them next. Some in the police may believe the NPAS propaganda at the moment: not everyone understands how police aviation had been optimised. Mostly politicians just want to make cuts.
One of the most hopeful audiences seemed to me to be those bidding to be future police commissioners. Whatever you may think of the idea of commissioners, it would be good to try and make use of them at this stage. They will all be very keen to please at present because they will want votes in November. Given what they are supposed to do once elected, you would hope they would want to represent their local police force interests. If it could be suggested to them that NPAS will produce inferior police air support for their police force, they may be prepared to raise questions about the NPAS steamroller. I recall a candidate for the Bedfordshire job had been opposing the closure of the Henlow base and removal of their aircraft in the media. That would be a good example, given the vast hole in coverage that will be opened up if Henlow goes.
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Although I'm led to believe Alex Marshals Hampshire force have never run their own air support unit, so it was always a curious choice for the NPAS lead.
I do hear tales and rumours of certain, southern units not turning a blade for days on end and not being able to deploy to jobs unless specifically requested to go. ie not being able to self-deploy. If that's the case then it's no wonder Mr marshal sees some spare capacity that can be trimmed.
But no, no figures, just rumour. As per the title of the website..
Last edited by morris1; 30th Jun 2012 at 12:30.
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Ah, my apologies, I thought you were having a pop at Air Support in Hampshire 
In the last few years response has increased a great deal, going from one fixed wing to two helis as part of the SE consortium.
Up until the consortium Hants ran their own Air Ops unit for many years, and I think were one of the very first (and hopefully Bryn will jump in here) permanent Police Air Ops Units.
In the last few years response has increased a great deal, going from one fixed wing to two helis as part of the SE consortium.
Up until the consortium Hants ran their own Air Ops unit for many years, and I think were one of the very first (and hopefully Bryn will jump in here) permanent Police Air Ops Units.
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Morris,
I am not sure how much you know about down south. Aeromys will no doubt give you his views, but let me provide some historical background.
For many years Hampshire had a plank. I hesitate to comment further, but let me say that whenever neighbouring police helicopters provided air support to Hampshire for active jobs, it was always welcomed by the troops on the ground.
The plank has gone. Because they were forced out of their base at Fairoaks by a number of attacks on the aircraft by crims, Surrey AOU moved to RAF Odiham in Hampshire a few years ago. The Surrey and Sussex heles (at Shoreham) provide cover for a SE area consortium [Surrey/Sussex/Hampshire], so it is almost fortuitous that the Surrey hele is located in Hampshire. I believe the plan under NPAS will be to have only one base: the latest I heard it would be at Redhill in Surrey, which would have its own problems if it was to come to pass.
So you are right that Hampshire and CC Marshall has never run a helicopter. If anyone wanted to defend his position as the Air lead they might mention he used to work in Thames Valley.
I am not sure how much you know about down south. Aeromys will no doubt give you his views, but let me provide some historical background.
For many years Hampshire had a plank. I hesitate to comment further, but let me say that whenever neighbouring police helicopters provided air support to Hampshire for active jobs, it was always welcomed by the troops on the ground.
The plank has gone. Because they were forced out of their base at Fairoaks by a number of attacks on the aircraft by crims, Surrey AOU moved to RAF Odiham in Hampshire a few years ago. The Surrey and Sussex heles (at Shoreham) provide cover for a SE area consortium [Surrey/Sussex/Hampshire], so it is almost fortuitous that the Surrey hele is located in Hampshire. I believe the plan under NPAS will be to have only one base: the latest I heard it would be at Redhill in Surrey, which would have its own problems if it was to come to pass.
So you are right that Hampshire and CC Marshall has never run a helicopter. If anyone wanted to defend his position as the Air lead they might mention he used to work in Thames Valley.