UK NPAS discussion: thread Mk 2
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I'm quite surprised that the vacancy hasn't been advertised on the G4S recruitment pages ( yet ) ....
G4S ? You know - That Private company that has recently been awarded a very nice
£200 million contract with Lincolnshire Police ( Lincolnshire Police Contract | G4S )
who have received legal advice about the contract from a certain "Truly Global Law Firm"
( White & Case LLP - News - White & Case Advises G4S on £200 Million Police Authority Contract)
who have, as one of their partners no less ..... you guessed it - Mr. Tom Winsor
G4S ? You know - That Private company that has recently been awarded a very nice
£200 million contract with Lincolnshire Police ( Lincolnshire Police Contract | G4S )
who have received legal advice about the contract from a certain "Truly Global Law Firm"
( White & Case LLP - News - White & Case Advises G4S on £200 Million Police Authority Contract)
who have, as one of their partners no less ..... you guessed it - Mr. Tom Winsor
Last edited by Coconutty; 16th May 2012 at 16:41.
And? Whats this to do with NPAS, then?
Time will wear everyone down - mark my words. Time and bull****.
5 years from now - any progress will seem like a win situation
This "process" is growing arms and legs as we speak. The government want it, so the government will 'throw' money at it to make it work.
£15 million pounds* savings Does anyone out there genuinely believe this is the main reason for doing this? Much of these savings will be lost through setting NPAS up and running it for the next 5 yrs!!!!
*{That's the running costs for the Greater Manchester Police for a fraction over a week (8 days).}
It was an attempt at streamlining a very fragmented ops wing of the police forces throughout the UK without any in depth analysis as to how much such a huge task would cost. SPIN, what SPIN
Time will wear everyone down - mark my words. Time and bull****.
5 years from now - any progress will seem like a win situation
This "process" is growing arms and legs as we speak. The government want it, so the government will 'throw' money at it to make it work.
£15 million pounds* savings
Does anyone out there genuinely believe this is the main reason for doing this? Much of these savings will be lost through setting NPAS up and running it for the next 5 yrs!!!!*{That's the running costs for the Greater Manchester Police for a fraction over a week (8 days).}
It was an attempt at streamlining a very fragmented ops wing of the police forces throughout the UK without any in depth analysis as to how much such a huge task would cost. SPIN, what SPIN
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And? Whats this to do with NPAS, then
presumably at NPAS's expense, as they only agreed to take on the role
if there were no adverse implications for their Council Tax paying residents.
So more expense for NPAS - eating into the expected savings already ! ?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Just 2 questions;
1. Are all NPAS vacancies advertised here, NPIA: Vacancy Search Results Page ?
2. Are we considering more than a single type/manufacturer per region?
3. Just what is Mr Winsor's part in GS4's £200 million contract?
BBC News - Theresa May denies conflict of interest in Lincolnshire Police deal
Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
1. Are all NPAS vacancies advertised here, NPIA: Vacancy Search Results Page ?
2. Are we considering more than a single type/manufacturer per region?
3. Just what is Mr Winsor's part in GS4's £200 million contract?
BBC News - Theresa May denies conflict of interest in Lincolnshire Police deal
Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
Way back, in the previous Rotorheads NPAS thread, there was mention of fixed wing being added to the mix over and above Plan A [Dyfed was the expected recipient].
In a few days time a Tecnam twin will be launching 'Plan A modified' with a National fixed wing trial - and by chance it will include Wales - and all to do with the Olympic Torch Run. Finishes early June in time for a quick flight by the MMA to Sankt Augustin.
I am surprised that it does not seem to have been mentioned. Any reason [other than this being Rotorheads of course]?
In a few days time a Tecnam twin will be launching 'Plan A modified' with a National fixed wing trial - and by chance it will include Wales - and all to do with the Olympic Torch Run. Finishes early June in time for a quick flight by the MMA to Sankt Augustin.
I am surprised that it does not seem to have been mentioned. Any reason [other than this being Rotorheads of course]?
Wales - and all to do with the Olympic Torch Run.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Do the Welsh population pose some particular threat?
Perhaps Meibion Glyndŵr may raise its head again
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TC, You said that
Who says that it MUST be the CC who is the Licence holder? and if it does how does this CAA guidance sit with that
From what you are saying Willie Walsh is the Accountable manager for BA and Richard Branson for Virgin. Is that the case?
I'm sure that now we have OD in position these things are all being carefully considered.
There seems to be a lot of sour grapes coming out on this issue. Yes, this is a rumour network, but it seems to be turning into a second guessing and bitching network. That last comment is aimed at more than one individual but not all.
When the host force model was put out, only one came forward. Why are we now grumbling when they are putting NPAS in place with NO cost to their own rate payers, that seems like a sensible practice. One that any Police Authority would have adopted.
October is nearly here, we should be doing what we do best and getting on with it, not second guessing and moaning at every corner.
Rant over......................ducks and waits for response.
If it's under the auspices of the AOC you are talking about, then the accountable manager can only be the license holder which is the CC, no? He/she cannot delegate this responsibility therefore putting a layer between him/her won't work.
Though the nominee will often be the Chief Executive, CEO, President, Managing Director, General Manager or similar title, it is not necessary for him/her to be the ‘controlling mind’ of the organisation.
I'm sure that now we have OD in position these things are all being carefully considered.
There seems to be a lot of sour grapes coming out on this issue. Yes, this is a rumour network, but it seems to be turning into a second guessing and bitching network. That last comment is aimed at more than one individual but not all.
When the host force model was put out, only one came forward. Why are we now grumbling when they are putting NPAS in place with NO cost to their own rate payers, that seems like a sensible practice. One that any Police Authority would have adopted.
October is nearly here, we should be doing what we do best and getting on with it, not second guessing and moaning at every corner.
Rant over......................ducks and waits for response.
Waggers: Currently, who is the PAOC licence holder for every single police operator in the UK>?
Assuming Yorks plan to adopt the AOC and there isn't a firewall between their constabulary and NPAS regarding aviation responsibilities, it will, by default, be the CC. He/she cannot tell someone in their organisation to 'hold an AOC'. They are not allowed to delegate this responsibility i.a.w. CAA regs.
The gist of the argument here is not that W Yorks can or cannot do their job properly (as far as I can see), it's about SAVING MONEY.
Now if W Yorks wish to "build an empire" to get the job done and deposit the bill with NPAS in so doing.....isn't that defeating the whole argument?
At the pointy end, NPAS are trying to claw back money and at the blunt end, it's all (and possibly more over the years) being hoovered up by the back office @ W Yorks???
I re-iterate: this process is unstoppable, without question. BUT it will leech money and over the years any savings will be completely consumed by the bigger machine running it. Mark my words.
Assuming Yorks plan to adopt the AOC and there isn't a firewall between their constabulary and NPAS regarding aviation responsibilities, it will, by default, be the CC. He/she cannot tell someone in their organisation to 'hold an AOC'. They are not allowed to delegate this responsibility i.a.w. CAA regs.
The gist of the argument here is not that W Yorks can or cannot do their job properly (as far as I can see), it's about SAVING MONEY.
Now if W Yorks wish to "build an empire" to get the job done and deposit the bill with NPAS in so doing.....isn't that defeating the whole argument?
At the pointy end, NPAS are trying to claw back money and at the blunt end, it's all (and possibly more over the years) being hoovered up by the back office @ W Yorks???
I re-iterate: this process is unstoppable, without question. BUT it will leech money and over the years any savings will be completely consumed by the bigger machine running it. Mark my words.
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TC
Now theres an assumption, were on new ground here, it's pointless quoting what has happened previously with PAOC's they will soon be dead and gone.
As regards empire building, are you seriously proposing that WYP should take on NPAS and the responsibility that goes with it and then drop some of the cost on their own ratepayers?
I'm sure Joe Public in Leeds will be happy to know that their rates are supplimenting Policing operations in Exeter or anywhere else that isn't West Yorkshire for that matter.
I'm sure that this thing WILL cost money and that any savings will be in the future and not today. Implementation of most of the Winsor provisions will not save money today, but will in the future. Rightly or wrongly the Police are bearing the brunt of the CSR it seems that all NPAS is going to do is streamline things in the future, what it will do and here is the rub, is remove all responsibility and decision making from individual units.
It's not orange but it is the future.
there isn't a firewall between their constabulary and NPAS regarding aviation responsibilities
As regards empire building, are you seriously proposing that WYP should take on NPAS and the responsibility that goes with it and then drop some of the cost on their own ratepayers?
I'm sure Joe Public in Leeds will be happy to know that their rates are supplimenting Policing operations in Exeter or anywhere else that isn't West Yorkshire for that matter.
I'm sure that this thing WILL cost money and that any savings will be in the future and not today. Implementation of most of the Winsor provisions will not save money today, but will in the future. Rightly or wrongly the Police are bearing the brunt of the CSR it seems that all NPAS is going to do is streamline things in the future, what it will do and here is the rub, is remove all responsibility and decision making from individual units.
It's not orange but it is the future.
Last edited by Wagging Finger; 18th May 2012 at 08:36.
Tightgit
lost rapid local response
'Spontaneous' immediate self deployment is permitted within the new model!
Last edited by handysnaks; 18th May 2012 at 09:02.
This is the way I see it, please please correct me if it is different in the real world:
Ollie devises the AOC. He then goes onto administering it on a daily basis (he will be the facilitator, not the practitioner). A 'new in post' ACC (???) will hold Ollie to account (as the AOC administrator), on behalf of the parent company (WY constabulary) which manages NPAS.
The ACC is accountable to the CC of the WYC.
The CC will be the license holder accountable to the CAA and to the Crown.
NORMALLY...the nominated persons will be:
CC
FOD / Supt NPAS
NPAS Chief Pilot.
In that pecking order. These persons will be held accountable for all aspects of H and S and culpability in the event of a manslaughter charge or similar.
These are the people who will GO TO JAIL, if the wheel comes off
Ollie devises the AOC. He then goes onto administering it on a daily basis (he will be the facilitator, not the practitioner). A 'new in post' ACC (???) will hold Ollie to account (as the AOC administrator), on behalf of the parent company (WY constabulary) which manages NPAS.
The ACC is accountable to the CC of the WYC.
The CC will be the license holder accountable to the CAA and to the Crown.
NORMALLY...the nominated persons will be:
CC
FOD / Supt NPAS
NPAS Chief Pilot.
In that pecking order. These persons will be held accountable for all aspects of H and S and culpability in the event of a manslaughter charge or similar.
These are the people who will GO TO JAIL, if the wheel comes off
Last edited by Thomas coupling; 18th May 2012 at 09:22.
Tightgit
Whitehead06, you seem somewhat vexed!
My identity is carefully hidden in that moniker I use. It's a code that only the very clever can break 
!
I am not in a position of authority within NPAS, however I have worked out all by myself that as well as the rest of the public sector, the police service is undergoing a significant cut in its operating budget. I haven't really needed anyone in authority to tell me that air support was going to be affected. I worked that out for myself. My own view is that in the short term, there will be more police helicopters available in two years time than there would have been were NPAS not happening. Remember, that is a view. I can't prove it, I have no facts to back it up, it is just my hypothesis based on the cuts my own force has imposed in the last few years and then extrapolating those cuts to other smaller forces!
So don't try and kid those that know a bit about it, that it will. Or is your indentity really a cover for Theresa May?
!
If someone in authority has the **lls to stand up and say. " OK -Sorry guys, we appreciate that this is a sorry reflection of what we had before, but it is all we can afford now." Then I guess we would have to accept it, but I for one will never accept this "Smoke & Mirrors" act.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Anyone else getting dizzy ?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
White & Case LLP - News - White & Case Advises G4S on £200 Million Police Authority Contract
White & Case Advises G4S on £200 Million Police Authority Contract
First project of its kind to be awarded
London, February 29, 2012 ... Global law firm White & Case has advised leading security solutions group G4S in relation to its £200 million transformation project with Lincolnshire Police Authority. The contract is the first of its kind to be awarded in the UK police sector.
G4S will provide a wide range of support services to Lincolnshire Police Authority through a 10 year strategic partnership, delivering savings of approximately £28 million to the authority through a radical programme of investment and process improvements. The transferring services include IT, finance, human resources, custody, force control room (which handles emergency and routine calls), asset and facilities management, town enquiry offices, firearms licensing and criminal justice support. The project also includes the design and build of a new, state of the art police station in the county.
"As a direct response to the budget challenges facing the police sector, this strategic partnership provides an innovative solution to police support services," said Anthony Fine, a partner at White & Case. "The project will deliver new and improved infrastructure and free up officer time for frontline duties. Working with G4S and Lincolnshire Police Authority on this project builds on our market leading experience in this sector."
The White & Case team was led by Anthony Fine and senior associate Lucy Plowright with support from partners Nicholas Greenacre and Stephen Ravenscroft and associate Rhian Williams.
First project of its kind to be awarded
London, February 29, 2012 ... Global law firm White & Case has advised leading security solutions group G4S in relation to its £200 million transformation project with Lincolnshire Police Authority. The contract is the first of its kind to be awarded in the UK police sector.
G4S will provide a wide range of support services to Lincolnshire Police Authority through a 10 year strategic partnership, delivering savings of approximately £28 million to the authority through a radical programme of investment and process improvements. The transferring services include IT, finance, human resources, custody, force control room (which handles emergency and routine calls), asset and facilities management, town enquiry offices, firearms licensing and criminal justice support. The project also includes the design and build of a new, state of the art police station in the county.
"As a direct response to the budget challenges facing the police sector, this strategic partnership provides an innovative solution to police support services," said Anthony Fine, a partner at White & Case. "The project will deliver new and improved infrastructure and free up officer time for frontline duties. Working with G4S and Lincolnshire Police Authority on this project builds on our market leading experience in this sector."
The White & Case team was led by Anthony Fine and senior associate Lucy Plowright with support from partners Nicholas Greenacre and Stephen Ravenscroft and associate Rhian Williams.
White & Case LLP - News - White & Case Partner, Tom Winsor, Makes Recommendations Following Police Review
White & Case Partner, Tom Winsor, Makes Recommendations Following Police Review
London, March 15, 2012 ... Tom Winsor, a partner at global law firm White & Case LLP, has today made his recommendations following his independent review of police pay and conditions.
Winsor was personally appointed, as an impartial reviewer, by the Home Secretary in October 2010 to carry out the most comprehensive review of police pay and conditions in more than 30 years, covering all police officers and staff in England & Wales.
Initial, short-term recommendations – outlining plans for three years – were announced in March last year. The comprehensive recommendations published today relate to the next 30 years.
London, March 15, 2012 ... Tom Winsor, a partner at global law firm White & Case LLP, has today made his recommendations following his independent review of police pay and conditions.
Winsor was personally appointed, as an impartial reviewer, by the Home Secretary in October 2010 to carry out the most comprehensive review of police pay and conditions in more than 30 years, covering all police officers and staff in England & Wales.
Initial, short-term recommendations – outlining plans for three years – were announced in March last year. The comprehensive recommendations published today relate to the next 30 years.
BBC News - Theresa May denies conflict of interest in Lincolnshire Police deal
Theresa May denies conflict of interest in Lincolnshire Police deal
Home Secretary Theresa May has rejected an accusation of a conflict of interest in Lincolnshire Police's decision to award a £200m contract to G4S.
At the Police Federation conference, Mrs May was asked about Tom Winsor, a partner of a law firm which advised the security company on the deal.
In 2010, Mr Winsor was appointed by the government to author an independent report on police reform.
Mrs May told the conference there was no overlap between Mr Winsor's roles.
In February, Lincolnshire Police agreed a deal to pay G4S £200m over 10 years to deliver a range of services, including human resources, finance and IT.
Mr Winsor, whose review proposed changes in how the police are paid, is a partner at White and Case but the firm said he played no part in its work advising G4S.
Home Secretary Theresa May has rejected an accusation of a conflict of interest in Lincolnshire Police's decision to award a £200m contract to G4S.
At the Police Federation conference, Mrs May was asked about Tom Winsor, a partner of a law firm which advised the security company on the deal.
In 2010, Mr Winsor was appointed by the government to author an independent report on police reform.
Mrs May told the conference there was no overlap between Mr Winsor's roles.
In February, Lincolnshire Police agreed a deal to pay G4S £200m over 10 years to deliver a range of services, including human resources, finance and IT.
Mr Winsor, whose review proposed changes in how the police are paid, is a partner at White and Case but the firm said he played no part in its work advising G4S.
Phew, I'm glad she tidied that one up
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
No Conflict!!!
http://www.nigeltompsett.com/uploads...onse_18164.pdf
Thank you for your e-mail of 22 March 2011, in which you ask for information regarding the Independent Review of Remuneration and Conditions of Service for Police Officers and Staff.
Your request has been handled as a request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
You asked specifically for:
‘…how much Tom Winsor has either been paid or will be paid to carry out his review on remuneration and conditions of service for police officers and staff in England and Wales?
I am able to disclose the following information:
The law firm White and Case, at which Tom Winsor is a partner, will receive £300 per day for his services.
Your request has been handled as a request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
You asked specifically for:
‘…how much Tom Winsor has either been paid or will be paid to carry out his review on remuneration and conditions of service for police officers and staff in England and Wales?
I am able to disclose the following information:
The law firm White and Case, at which Tom Winsor is a partner, will receive £300 per day for his services.
Guest
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Whitehead06, you seem somewhat vexed!
My identity is carefully hidden in that moniker I use. It's a code that only the very clever can break !
I am not in a position of authority within NPAS, however I have worked out all by myself that as well as the rest of the public sector, the police service is undergoing a significant cut in its operating budget. I haven't really needed anyone in authority to tell me that air support was going to be affected. I worked that out for myself. My own view is that in the short term, there will be more police helicopters available in two years time than there would have been were NPAS not happening. Remember, that is a view. I can't prove it, I have no facts to back it up, it is just my hypothesis based on the cuts my own force has imposed in the last few years and then extrapolating those cuts to other smaller forces!
So don't try and kid those that know a bit about it, that it will. Or is your indentity really a cover for Theresa May?
!
If someone in authority has the **lls to stand up and say. " OK -Sorry guys, we appreciate that this is a sorry reflection of what we had before, but it is all we can afford now." Then I guess we would have to accept it, but I for one will never accept this "Smoke & Mirrors" act.
NPAS brief was to save £15 million per year.
The tax payer will lose £2 BILLION on Northern Rock alone.
You could run the entire UK's ASU on the interest off that, had it not been thrown away..!!
It's all relative....
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
The tax payer will lose £2 BILLION on Northern Rock alone.
You could run the entire UK's ASU on the interest off that, had it not been thrown away..!!
It's all relative....
You could run the entire UK's ASU on the interest off that, had it not been thrown away..!!
It's all relative....
Bono gets nearly a £ billion for his facebook shares, yet I bet you the price for a village well, that we will still be having this years shedful of 'whatever-athons' asking us to give money for Africa.