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The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H

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The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H

Old 8th Mar 2012, 09:39
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Press Release

Anyone have a link to the press release at The UK Government's Department for Transport?
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Old 8th Mar 2012, 12:04
  #322 (permalink)  
 
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Developing Assets (UK)

Are they a serious company? Or is another agency like zenon? I've never heard of them!
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Old 8th Mar 2012, 12:13
  #323 (permalink)  
 
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Developing Assets -well connected I would say. Not an agency, more a one man show.
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Old 8th Mar 2012, 12:41
  #324 (permalink)  
 
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Can't find anything on the DfT website, but this is a link to a Rotorhub article dated 7th March -

Shortlist of bidders for long-term UK SAR contract revealed - News - Shephard
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Old 8th Mar 2012, 12:48
  #325 (permalink)  
 
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The way they are advertising the job for sar it seems like a agency. What they win with that??
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Old 8th Mar 2012, 14:06
  #326 (permalink)  
 
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Developing Assets

Just to clarify, Developing Assets UK Ltd, is a perfectly legitimate company who do currently have 25 operators, Front and backseat,working globally and in the UK.
This is expanding and the posts on LinkedIn are genuine.

It is definitely not an agency.

Hope that helps.
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Old 12th Mar 2012, 11:16
  #327 (permalink)  
 
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Child of Ptolemy - Check PMs.
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Old 12th Mar 2012, 14:35
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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SAR Chasm

I take it this is a S-92 SAR job and that is why you are posting it on this forum?
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Old 29th Mar 2012, 15:09
  #329 (permalink)  
 
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I believe that today's the day. Contract process stage X.

Maybe some have helped the DfT out by merging or walking away ... or not.

Anyone heard anything?
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Old 29th Mar 2012, 19:16
  #330 (permalink)  
 
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One for the potential contractors to consider - apparently all future paramedics will be required to complete degree level training before they are allowed to call themselves paramedics.

This seems part of the over-qualification race that affected the nursing profession.

So, do the future SAR providers embrace all the extra study (and costs associated) to retain the title of paramedic for the winchmen or do we go back to them just rescuing people and taking them as quickly as possible to definitive medical care?
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Old 29th Mar 2012, 21:59
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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At the moment you don't need to have done a degree to be called a paramedic, Thats the bottom line! In the future to become a paramedic that might be the only route.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 06:17
  #332 (permalink)  
 
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Paramedic

In regards to UK HPC Registered Paramedics after July 2013 all paramedic training will have to be Degree based learning.

You can still complete the Modular learning route at the moment and there is two medical providers providing the modular training to approprate private indviduals COSAR and Promethus Medical of Hereford.

The cost os around 10,000 Pounds.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 10:27
  #333 (permalink)  
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Scoop and run Crab, scoop and run!
 
Old 30th Mar 2012, 12:33
  #334 (permalink)  
 
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For once I agree with Crab. This is over the top. When I did the Advanced IEC in 1993 myself and most other winchman felt it was just the right level of knowledge we needed.

During my last visit to COSARM in 2009 I was talking with a few very experienced winchmen (mostly my ex-students from SKTU!) when this was being first mooted by W**l H*&^%s as the way forward. And they all said-why? Why not in that case just get paramedics and train them up as winchmen. Oh that old chestnut again.

Wiretensioner (ex)
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 14:04
  #335 (permalink)  
 
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There is certainly a case for scoop and run but it really depends on what you mean by 'definitive care.' If you mean getting patient with head injury to definitive care (i.e. somewhere with a neurosurgical facility) then a paramedic in a helicopter travelling in a fast, straight line is a good idea whatever their basic qualification. Depending on how that paramedic is trained, they can value add treatment enroute to make the patient's recovery/survival that much better. I suppose that's where the education comes in and hopefully a robust governance system to support the clinician and crew.

I came into the ambulance service at a technician/certificate level and I have seen the current flock of degree student paramedics struggle with attempting to apply their advanced knowledge to the vast majority of ambulance work which doesn't need anymore knowledge than how to depress the accelerator on the ambulance. So, a degree education may not be needed for the vast majority of work but it certainly helps when you're operating on the rarer case presentations that paramedics find themselves with now and again.

I currently work in HEMS environment with a permanent paramedic/doctor system delivering up to a full anaesthetic capability. I'm certainly no where near educationally than the doctor is but then I'm employed for my general pre-hospital experience to enhance the team. I would not propose a similar system for SAR although I am sure it would benefit patient care. The ability to deliver definitive care in the back of a helicopter is extremely difficult but not impossible so most of our interventions are done before packaging and transfer so that the helicopter can be used for what it was designed for--a versatile and fast(ish) transfer platform.

I wonder how the argument would go if the pilots only required a PPL to fly SAR helicopters? Education does have a place, it's getting the balance right to give the best service to the user and allowing the practitioner to intervene in a safe and responsible way.

take care all,

ropes
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 20:26
  #336 (permalink)  
 
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I'm certainly no where near educationally than the doctor is
No sh1t Sherlock!
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 20:55
  #337 (permalink)  
 
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Competence, not degrees

In a LOT of years in RAF SAR, I saw crewmen save thousands of lives, often with complicated and prolonged medical intervention. I saw countless doctors express incredulity that the casualties had been kept alive as long as they had, and watched them heap praise on countless RAF winchmen for their superb and 'of the moment' medical skills.

I never once saw a winchman's medical skills criticised, although I watched many doctors founder in the back of a Seaking, before the winchmen politely moved them aside and saved the casualty.

Skill and ability are where you find them. I know pilots with degrees who are lethal, and should not be allowed to fly a kite. I know pilots with 'no' quals, who are senior RAF instrucors and fly with near perfection.

The imminent loss of the military ethos, standards and pursuit of perfection (don't believe me? - then you have never been trapped by SAR Staneval) are the real crime. Standards will drop and lives will be lost. Are civvies less professional? Of couse not. Less dedicated? Nope. Less able? No. But 50 years of corporate knowledge, ethos and dedication cannot transfer across without loss. I Would love to be wrong and will be the first to admit it if I am, but somehow I am guessing I don't need to make these words sweet, because I won't be eating them.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 21:14
  #338 (permalink)  
 
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There will now follow a collection of angry words by people who have never set foot in SARTU or been trapped by SAR Staneval.
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 21:27
  #339 (permalink)  
 
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There could also easily be a post from someone who have experienced both systems.....

I thought we had managed to move away from this CiV vs Mil stuff... I guess not.

The standards at a CIV base are always moving on the up as well.....
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Old 30th Mar 2012, 23:50
  #340 (permalink)  
 
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Dear oaf... please excuse the lack of proof reading, perhaps you would like to add to the debate rather than acting as my spell checker?
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