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The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H

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The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H

Old 19th Jun 2012, 21:58
  #521 (permalink)  
 
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then again, maybe not! Still, civvy soon, chin up, or should that be Chinook, where your undoubted superior professionalism will find good company
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Old 3rd Jul 2012, 09:31
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Heard that LM haven't submitted a bid. And then there were 4 (Bond, Bristow, CHC and NHV)...........

Who's next on the down select?
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Old 3rd Jul 2012, 17:24
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Civvies pick up the RAF

The Stornoway Civvy cab may have just picked up 2 RAF tornado crew from the drink. I hope they are okay. News is that 2 Tornado's crashed and therefore I hope the outcome of the other crew is also good.

Some news reports say it was a RAF cab and some say it was the Stornoway Cab. I do hope those civvy boys were up to the job if they did do it.

I say another because there was a similar accident a while back.

Last edited by jonwilson; 3rd Jul 2012 at 17:37. Reason: Conflicting news reports
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Old 3rd Jul 2012, 19:59
  #524 (permalink)  
 
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Jon wilson


Don't think it matters at this time who done what, all we want is a good outcome.
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Old 3rd Jul 2012, 20:32
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S92
EC175
and AW189

Let the games begin.


[Jon wilson - don't be a dick**ad all your life. Civvies not up to it??? Where did that come from? Why didn't you simply keep your comments confined to the very real tragedy of the mid air in Scotland?]

Last edited by Thomas coupling; 3rd Jul 2012 at 20:46.
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Old 3rd Jul 2012, 21:38
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There are aircraft AIS traces to the scene this afternoon from both Lossie and Stornoway.
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Old 3rd Jul 2012, 22:56
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As you would expect.... The ARCC would be expected to launch 2 SAR cabs for such an incident, especially with 2 aircraft involved.

Looks like hope has faded for some... RIP Brave Bombers. It may happen less often these days, but its a great loss whenever this occurs. Thinking of you and your loved ones.
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Old 3rd Jul 2012, 23:04
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TC - What are you getting at? Do you know something on the inside?

JW - Outrageous comment in the circumstances. You obviously really know sh*t about the professional SAR capabilities of the CHC Interim aircrew and their very capable modern SAR helicopters be they S-92s or AW139s. Perhaps you have been beamed up through a worm hole from the 1970s?

So sad for those that failed to make it back to the pub - heroes all
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 09:04
  #529 (permalink)  
 
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Long SAR Aircraft

S92
EC175
and AW189

Let the games begin.
Are you sure about the AW189 as it's not certified yet, therefore not eligible?

Last edited by SARowl; 4th Jul 2012 at 09:05.
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 09:48
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Certification

Neither the 175 or 189 are certified yet so go figure? Respective bidders have no option for lot 2 in a lighter type, so perhaps they should throw in a larger certified type....but the DFT won't pay for that so the certification bit will be over-looked.

RAF CV's are flooding in now, sitting under the RN ones in HR.
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 11:12
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Some news reports say it was a RAF cab and some say it was the Stornoway Cab. I do hope those civvy boys were up to the job if they did do it.

I say another because there was a similar accident a while back.
Utterly unwarranted remark if you are refering to last years Tornado crash. Oh and by the way it was an ex-RAF winchman in the back of the Stornoway aircraft on that occasion.

Wiretensioner
Ex RAF and Coastgaurd SAR!
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 13:37
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S92
EC175
and AW189

Let the games begin.
As a result of painful lessons learnt by both the MCA and SAR-H IPT during the early years’ of Interim SAR, I’d suggest the DfT will be very risk averse to new platforms and OEM promises, what with unproven capabilities, performance and availability, not to mention certification issues. As such, selection of a currently uncertified and unproven helicopter for UKSAR would require a huge leap of faith by the DfT and Ministers alike.

“Hope is a good breakfast, but a bad supper.” - Francis Bacon

For the follow on contracts to the DfT’s current UKSAR competition, I see credible options for both categories being vastly different, but for now, I personally don’t see any realistic competition to the current platforms. The question is who, not what?

But then again, what do I know?
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Old 4th Jul 2012, 19:13
  #533 (permalink)  
 
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Lossiemouth generated a second aircraft and crew very quickly so, although the Stornoway cab was diverted from another job to attend, the winching was conducted by the RAF aircraft.

Very sad day, RIP and condolences

Last edited by [email protected]; 4th Jul 2012 at 19:14.
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Old 10th Jul 2012, 10:14
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The fix is in

AgustaWestland Exhibits AW189 SAR at FIA 2012 | AgustaWestland

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Old 11th Jul 2012, 02:59
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The AW189 brochure has been around for a while with a SAR spec aircraft illustrated. This includes a view of the cabin arranged for: four survivors, two of whom are in stretchers.
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Old 11th Jul 2012, 14:31
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I don't believe that AW submitted a PQQ or are part of any remaining consortium in the bid. Also, I heard that it won't be certified until around 2015, so not a good bet for this process.

All just rumours though..

GG
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Old 11th Jul 2012, 20:03
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Not a rumour.
189 and 175 still both very much in the race.




Eurocopter is proposing to establish the UK as a ‘centre of excellence’ for the SAR variant of the EC175, should the aircraft be chosen for the country’s latest SAR tender.

A decision on the Long SAR project is expected early next year, which will see SAR services provided by contracted civilian crews under decade-long contracts across three lots.

Speaking to reporters at the Farnborough International Airshow, Eurocopter UK CEO Markus Steinke, noted that all the competitors – including future EC175 operators Bristow, Bond and NHV – had offered the EC175 as an option as part of their bid.

Steinke argued that given the early state of the EC175’s adoption, the UK would be able to shape the ‘basic evolution’ of the SAR variant of the aircraft should it be selected.

‘The UK SAR solution will be the trendsetter for the worldwide application of the aircraft in the SAR role. From the UK, we will also be able to serve the worldwide SAR needs,’ Steinke said.

He said such a ‘centre of excellence’ would include the customisation of the aircraft, training, simulation and development of specialist technicians within the UK.

Eurocopter envisions success in the SAR project as a way of increasing their footprint in the UK beyond the current 1600 employees and brought the EC175 to the air show for its first appearance outside France to help raise the profile of its bid.

The manufacturer claims the aircraft’s performance would give a comfortable 250nm radius of action, allowing it to carry out all but the longest range missions. Such flights could be made by the EC225, which may partner the EC175 in any Long SAR contract.

The company faces strong competition, however, in the form of the AgustaWestland AW189, which has also been offered as an option by all four competitors for Long SAR.

AgustaWestland used Farnborough to showcase the commonality of its new family of aircraft, with the AW159, AW169 and AW189 playing a prominent role.

CEO Bruno Spagnolini also confirmed that full final assembly of SAR-configured AW189s will be established in the UK should the aircraft be selected for the Long SAR requirement.*
 
Old 12th Jul 2012, 10:46
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The fix is in

Call me a cynic but the AW Press Release looks like a blatant threat; "Should the AW189 be selected for the UK SAR-H requirement, all SAR-configured AW189s will be assembled at AgustaWestland’s Yeovil factory". The implication being that if it is not selected then it won't be built at Yeovil.
Still that all fits with the the Coalition Government's latest Stalinist and contradictory pronouncement on "picking winners" in British Industry.

On the other hand the 189 does provide sufficient room for 2 stretchers on the cabin floor with some space to attend the casualties, not something you could do in the 175.

At least the sun shone yesterday for a few hours, nice display by the 175 but wouldn't it have made more sense to incorporate a winching demo rather than just throwing it around the skies?

The Boondoggle continues.
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Old 12th Jul 2012, 12:42
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LB - I think from what I have heard (rumour control!) that AW always intended to do a lot of 189 stuff at Yeovil, but they can put a commercial case for moving full production to Yeovil if its kicked off and supported by a big UK order. I think about a 3rd of the bits are made in the UK anyway, as well as a lot of the design work. I think EC might challenge your view on what can fit in the cabin too.

Bremen - a German name from ireland. There is something Irish about your comments too. I would be very surpised if any of the Bidders have submitted both medium sized types (175 and 189) as part of the same solution - that simply doesn't make sense. As for your report that the EC CEO has said all bidders have put 175 in their bids? Where on earth did that come from? Another non-sequitor perhaps - your not a journo are you?

Last edited by 4thright; 12th Jul 2012 at 12:42.
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Old 12th Jul 2012, 18:43
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Thanks for the reply Bremen

the "Irish" comment comes from a well worn expression about unintelligable and inaccurate statements....

If this is Rotorhub copy, then they need to get a better reporter and editor. Both companies claiming to have had their aircraft submitted by all 4 bidders? Somehow, I don't think so. In fact its complete rubbish. Its clear that both companies are using the opportunity to push their products. Not surprising, but I suspect many both at Bidder level and within the Department for Transport will find this a bit "off piste" and embarrasing given they are in the middle of assessing the Bidder's submissions.

shame the last competiton failed as many will rue the day that an all S-92 service has been excluded
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