The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
I think the DfT will be more worried about the reducing number of competitors before the next submission is due
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: England
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
J671 I don't know how you fathom that one. Any of the bidders will have their bids assessed even if there was only one per Lot - no one will get a bye. I think originally the DfT was hoping there would be a wider bidder field than expected so as to give Bristow and CHC a run for their money. Maybe it would produce a better solution too. Looks like that possibility is fading fast and if so, it will be the final solution that might suffer.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A suitable range of technical experts
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: England
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nothing to fear there MC as I read that the tech spec is demanding satcom internet to allow affiliate shopping en route to and from the target area.
All purchases will be drop-shipped to the home SAR base without any "embarrasing" need to provide impromptu photo ops to the ambushing paparazi!
All purchases will be drop-shipped to the home SAR base without any "embarrasing" need to provide impromptu photo ops to the ambushing paparazi!
So glad you guys brought up the catering issue. I have been really worried about how I was going to get along without the boiler opposite my favourite front pax seat in the Sea King. No sign of Starbucks in any of the bidding consortia unfortunately.
I checked CAP 637 but can't find the signal for Cappuccino.
I checked CAP 637 but can't find the signal for Cappuccino.
Last edited by jimf671; 21st May 2012 at 00:46.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: retirementland
Age: 79
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't you just drop into a Starbucks en-route?
Or does that just apply to butchers and ice cream shops?
Or does that just apply to butchers and ice cream shops?
Last edited by Shell Management; 21st May 2012 at 21:17.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Up North
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When CHC won the interim contract from Bristows in 2005 they came and visited the flights to ask what we wanted on the new aircraft. I mentioned the hot water boiler (ex Sea Kings), amongst other things. Basically it was just laughed out of court and never appeared along with a few other things asked for which never materialised. There idea-couple of flasks that when scrambled where the winchman's reponsibility to sort out, while getting changed and finding out what the job was and did he need any extra kit!
Civvy SAR do not appreciate how valuable the boiler is. To many ex-Navy involved!
Wiretensioner
Civvy SAR do not appreciate how valuable the boiler is. To many ex-Navy involved!
Wiretensioner
Water boilers??? You'll be wanting Playstations/X-boxes for the crewroom next.
No time to fill flasks? get the engineers to do it... they've got nothing else to do after all. Or...... fill them, the flasks, at the start of shift.
3D
No time to fill flasks? get the engineers to do it... they've got nothing else to do after all. Or...... fill them, the flasks, at the start of shift.
3D
Join Date: May 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The RAF SAR hot water boiler is primarily there for getting a warm drink into a cold wet survivor. A couple of 'self heating' cans of coffee kept on the aircraft would be considerably cheaper, safer and much lighter.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Up North
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Water boilers??? You'll be wanting Playstations/X-boxes for the crewroom next.
Wiretensioner
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No time to fill flasks? get the engineers to do it... they've got nothing else to do after all
When did you last do something to 'help out' i.e. go beyond watching people work and offer assistance?! Take off your blinkers, you may even find some day someone will like you...........
Water boiler: A joke when it was installed and a joke to this very day. More bother than the worth of it. Nil by mouth comes to mind! Can you imagine a civvy cab having this onboard: some bright CAA spark will insist on adding it to the MEL
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Up North
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TC you seem to be someone who has had little to do with long range SAROPS or you are a pilot! I certainly wouldn't call the boiler a joke. Bloody useful on a long job to get something hot to drink or a Pot Noodle (only way to get Leopold Bloom out of the radar shack in the Falklands!), heating up fluids before we got the heater packs and if able to hot liquids into a casualty.
Wiretensioner
Wiretensioner
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: England
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it me or is there something a bit sad about this thread having drooped down to a mere discussion on the merits of long range hot coffee?
Its no wonder few seem to enter any sort of signifcant debate on here about the future of the Nations SAR service anymore
Its no wonder few seem to enter any sort of signifcant debate on here about the future of the Nations SAR service anymore
Last edited by 4thright; 23rd May 2012 at 20:48.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Monde
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well you see 4thright, we've got a bit of a problem. The SARH bids were assessed by chaps of the calibre of RWOETU and SAR Staneval and the like - long time SAR pros who had years and years of front line SAR and SAR training experience. Now that SARH is dead and buried, who's going to assess the bids for Longsar and how can we tell they've got any pedigree whatsoever? The whole of military SAR is going to be replaced, potentially by a winning bid that has been scrutinised and recommended by people with minimal SAR experience.
Water boilers are only one small issue but there will be many more like it and if anyone involved in appraising bids holds strident and pre-conceived views like, 'a joke when it was installed and a joke to this very day' then it's unlikely that the future of SAR in the UK is going to be rosy.
Water boilers are only one small issue but there will be many more like it and if anyone involved in appraising bids holds strident and pre-conceived views like, 'a joke when it was installed and a joke to this very day' then it's unlikely that the future of SAR in the UK is going to be rosy.
Last edited by Vie sans frontieres; 23rd May 2012 at 20:48.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: England
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VSF I think you raise a good point. I don't know who in detail is assessing the bid but if what you say is true, then there is a problem. I am still not convinced that arguing about some aircraft bits and pieces is the place this thread should be at this stage. I would be more concerned about whether the new service will deliver good mountain rescue and overland capability. With the Transport Ministry and MCA in charge, what do they know of these issues and the focus needed? The Police have authority and experience in these rescues but the Home Office is nowhere to be seen. Of course there is the perenial issue too about ANVIS, as far as I see it, the CAA and its new CAP999 is taking a very tentative approach. There really is little chance of the new service being anywhere near that presently offered by the military in this essential area.
Last edited by 4thright; 23rd May 2012 at 21:01.
A helicopter with HM Coastguard on the side spends half its time doing overland work in the north west of scotland.... so you might be surprised how much they do know...........
How ever it is a intresting question, who are the advisers on this new SAR stuff?
The CAA have no issues about ANVIS.... and thats what they have said.... someone just has to talk to them about it.
How ever it is a intresting question, who are the advisers on this new SAR stuff?
The CAA have no issues about ANVIS.... and thats what they have said.... someone just has to talk to them about it.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: England
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LC I am aware of Stornoway's activities but its daylight only in the hills is it not? I do not agree with your rather sanguine view of the CAA. Talking to them yes of course, but their actual reaction to ANVIS when faced with their first AOC application might be more cautious than you would like to hope for.
Anyone know what's happening to the ARCC now Kinloss is closed?
Anyone know what's happening to the ARCC now Kinloss is closed?
Last edited by 4thright; 23rd May 2012 at 22:43.
CG/CHC Stornoway is 24 hours and regularly doing mountain work, night and day, summer and winter. They are not contracted to have a low light capability, so do not have NVG. In extreme low light conditions, other aircraft must be deployed.
MCA Aviation have stated that the Gap SAR technical requirements are broadly similar to the 2007 contract, so no contractual requirement for a low light capability (NVG) and, presumably, not the best comms fit.
The effect of a contractor change, with similar technical requirements and the same a/c type, is going to be extremely interesting.
(With LC on CAA & NVIS, though NVIS from a standing start is always likely to be problematic.)
MCA Aviation have stated that the Gap SAR technical requirements are broadly similar to the 2007 contract, so no contractual requirement for a low light capability (NVG) and, presumably, not the best comms fit.
The effect of a contractor change, with similar technical requirements and the same a/c type, is going to be extremely interesting.
(With LC on CAA & NVIS, though NVIS from a standing start is always likely to be problematic.)