laydo

Hi Griff,

Dont't put yourself down ,proper flying... mens work. John.

DennisK

Hi again Savoia,

I didn't appreciate TF was at one time owned by Dennis Smith. I knew that Dennis well having purchased his DH Dove, (G-AHLB) or something like that in the mid 1970s. It was registered to Alarm Systems, Dennis' Smith's company. Dennis purchased an Enstrom, but sadly much later, he changed it for a Rotorway and lost his life when he suffered an in-fight M/R blade failure.
BW to all Dennis K.

Oh and I've found a pic of G-AYTF that was taken when I landed at Leeds Castle, (inside the moat!) ... the occasion was a company pleasure flying do for the Eden Vale firm. I'll try & get the pic to you via e-mail. It had the JPS logo still so must have been taken early 1983. DK.

laydo

Hi Dennis and Sav.

Have been looking through my photo's this evening, having took on board what Sav posted regarding registration info for "TF", ie Nev Hutchings seemingly purchasing it in 1985, It looks like I have boobed in marking RU and TF as pictured in 1984, they are in a batch with my oldest daughter, and yes it was the summer of 85, my utmost opologies if this may have caused any confusion..

regards.. John.

newfieboy

Hi laydo, Sav, Griffo,

Greetings from the Great White North.

You seem to be the men in the know re 80's spray companies in Blighty . Did you come across an Aussie guy name of Tim, last name eludes me for now,(but had a really hot Lincs girl for a wife,again, name eludes me). Last I know of him doing Ag work, was for Miller, out of Wickenby I think,late 80's early 90's. Was mostly plank, but had a few hours rotary,spraying in Blighty thoughout the 80's. Last time I had a beer with him was in Louth,Lincs (the Wheatsheaf), be the Millenium, Xmas time,he was living there, me visiting family as an expat Ludensian. We became good buddies, he was really interested in the International rotary scene as Ag was about done/done in the UK. Me flying Notar, 350, 205,212,longline ops and fire fighting, at the time,as I am doing again, in Canada really interested him. Put him in touch with the guys hiring at the time. We stayed in touch for a while, then as happens all the time in this industry, lost contact. Any leads or contacts would be great. Love to talk to the fella again, and have a few more beers in Blighty.Keep the nostalgia coming, remember as a kid on hols from boarding school, laying between the potato rows on our farm in Lincolnshire,hiding from the flagmen(before AgNav et al) getting nailed by the flyboys doing aerial spray....... If only I knew, well still passing me medical .

Regards all you guys/gals in Blighty,

Newfie.......

Savoia

Ciao Newfie

While my first commercial assignment was agricultural it was Africa-based and so, I'm sorry to say, I have little awareness of the UK 'ag scene' as it were.

Those on here who have an inkling of what went on are our new member Laydo, veteran image supplier Helipixman and Nostalgia Thread Patron .. Dennis Kenyon. Between them one should be able to gain a fairly good list of UK spraying companies.

On page 29 Helipixman lists the details of some ag firms (Elipix, if you're still around could you please reload the images in your post #576 on page 29 - as they've gorn!).

Hope you have luck finding 'Tim' from Down Under. Btw, if you're in Newfoundland and have any images of helicopters in snow - I would be grateful as I have a growing 'snow copters' collection.

John: Great images of AWFY You mentioned this craft had specical significance for you? I must say that the Alouettes/Lamas seem more suited to this type of work than the 206 (although the 206 does more than a fair job) but the booms on the Alouette blend well with her aft framework!

Given your interest in crop dusting and in Alouettes, I'm arranging some images which I hope you will enjoy. (Just awaiting the various photographers permissions). Regarding AWFY, we have a rather nice shot of her on page 27 in her early days with Heli-Union (UK) when she wore a teal blue colour. The image was taken by Nostalgia Thread friend and celebrated Air-Britain photographer Chris England.

More Alouettes ...


Dollar Helicopters SA315B Lama G-AZNI at Coventry on 23rd August 1986 (Photo: Peter Fitzmaurice)

AZNI was imported by BEAS in '72 then sold to Dollar in '78. Though listed as being exported to the US, AZNI looks suspiciously similar to the tragically mangled wreck which appears in post #569 on page 29.

Dennis, you can email me the image. Grazie! Trying to track down Dennis Smith's Dove!

laydo

Hi Newfie.

Could this be your friend, this is the only clear shot showing the pilot.
I have plenty of photo's of Miller Ag-Cat's, and Pawnee's, but unfortunatly
only the a/c.

regards John.

902Jon

During my time at Dollar, there were at least 3 Lama's.
G-AZNI, G-BNNF, and a.n.other that I can't recall. They were unfortunately regularly recovered to Coventry in conditions like the picture on Page 29. They were rebuilt from the Registration plate up-wards back to a flying aircraft. Due to the nature of the work they were being used for, it was seen as an occupational hazard, plus it kept Michel and Les Corbett and others in continuous employment! I remember the two aircraft being damaged in Peru. Upland Goose was the company Ops director at the time so he may remember more of that incident. Also one came back from Kenya (1992?) in multiple pieces. We had been flying in support of the Nissan works rally team on the Safari Rally with it and a Long Ranger L4 which we had leased to do the job. The Lama had been in a confined area fuelling site and had come out heavy and had over-pitched, coming down in a crumpled heap.
Unfortunately I have no pictures of this time as my ex-wife destroyed them all.

Savoia

Lol - oh dear! You'll forgive me for laughing but whenever I hear of the antics the ladies get up to (especially when it comes to destroying the property of their spouses) I have to chuckle! Its so childish. When during the final sordid days of my first marriage my ex picked-up a Limoges enamelled vase I had bought for a princely sum in Brussels - I began to laugh and said something like "really", "fine, go ahead if it will make you feel better." To my surprise she put it down!

Re: Dollar's Lamas, sad indeed. An over-pitched Lama in Kenya, wow! You've said it was a fuel site so I'm guessing it must have uplifted a full tank and had full pax .. plus!

John: The fields in your photos seem fairly flat and obstacle free. In Italy, France and elsewhere some of the spray targets are not so accommodating:

laydo

Thanks for those couple of excellent vids Sav, very nice..



The area where I live, northern central UK is relatively flat, with only undulating rolling hillsides, the biggest obstacles for the dusters are the telephone cables and low voltage power lines, as in the shot below. I actully saw this Management Aviation (Metheringham) come to grief, the pilot was a little shaken, but ok.. BA was taken away on a flat bed truck.


John..

newfieboy

laydo, Sav,

John, many thanks for posting the Miller pic, yep I think you got my buddy in one, the power of PPRUNE... I am planning to come visit the UK over Xmas this year with the wife. I'm sure I will bump into him in the pub... I seem to recall the surname Wilson, from Queensland if that rings a bell.

Sav,

I live in St Johns, and yes have many 'snowcopter' pics. Funny you should ask, as I am in a remote drill camp in N.Ontario right now on tour, and we had our first snowfall of the winter last night,aprox 5cm, nothing for our standards, but I think my engineer took some pics as it cleared and the Northern Lights appeared. I was even impressed with my 350 B2 sillouetted against them and the snow,and have seen many beautiful sights in my years in Canuckland.Internet is very slow here, but when I get off tour will send many snowcopter pics for your collection, pm me your email....

Thanks again guys for posting all this nostalgia, and keep them coming. Days are getting very short and nights very long here, winter has arrived. It really passes the time on weather days or the long nights on tour reading all this great stuff.... Best Regards, Newfie.....

Shane101

Hello,
Its not Aussie Rangers or Ag birds but would anyone know anything about the time G-APTE stayed in Ireland during the winter of 1960 as a "Shamrock Helicopters" machine?
I presume it was a marketing exercise by Westland but maybe not, any ideas?

Savoia

Shane, interesting stuff!

Mindful of your interest in Widgeons and Dragonflys I have been in contact with a couple of friends in an effort to glean a little more information .. and images. The information is scarce but I've received a couple more images (including two examples from Italy and which I shall post during the week).

As you know, BEA ran a 'service' between various cities including a destination in Wales and there were also a couple of railway companies who got in on the act although I am still trying to verify whether the railway companies utilised rotorcraft.

Here below is one of the images sent to me after making some enquiries subsequent to your post on the Ferranti thread:


Westland Widgeon S-51 Series 2 G-AKTW in 1948 (Photo uncredited)

First registered to Westlands in February 1948 this craft was then re-registered as G-APPR and sold on to Bristows in November 1961. In June 1962 (still under Bristow's employ) she ventured south to Nigeria.

Watson1963

These ag pictures are great! Some more operators …

- A Penniston (Trading as Apple Aviation)
- ADS (Aerial Ltd)
- Agricola Aerial Work Ltd
- Agricopters Ltd
- Air-Ag Developments; (Formerly Zanji Ltd trading as Davies Aerial)
- Bowker Air Services
- Brown & Forsyth; (Trading as Fosse Helicopter Services Ltd)
- Ciba-Geigy Aerial Spraying
- Dollar Air Services
- Farm Aviation Services Ltd
- Farmair Ltd
- Farmwork Services (East) Ltd
- G & S C Neal Ltd
- GSM Helicopters
- Helicare Ltd
- Helicopter Farming Ltd
- Helicopter Hire Ltd
- Helicrops Ltd
- Heliscott Ltd
- Helispray
- J O'Brien (Trading as O'Brien Helicopter Services)
- JEF Aviation
- Jim Pearce; (Trading as Sussex AG)
- Peter Charles (Air Farmers) Ltd
- Point to Point Helicopters Ltd
- S M Ring (Trading as S & J Contracting Services Ltd)
- Skegness Air Taxi Service Ltd
- Sussex Services Ltd
- W D Clifton, P W Sleath & D B Goss (Trading as Boston Aviation Services)

This is from some CAA files archived at the Museum of Rural Life. Some are the fixed wing names already mentioned in this
thread, operating Pawnees or AgCats.
The National Archives | Access to Archives

The CAA files start about 1980, so the frantic days of the late 1970s crop spraying are missing … when lots of suitable and “cheap” a/c came onto the market. And probably a time when the “Aerial Application Certificate” was probably at its least onerous! You only need to look at the numbers of ag a/c registered, and the amount of bumps & scrapes, to get an idea of how much ag flying was going on in Britain.

Some operators are missing off the list.

Not on the list is Heliscot (not Heliscott) at Inverness. They were headed up by the well-known Major Francis F Chamberlain, who kindly put up with my endless questions. They operated UH-12Es G-BDFO, G-BEDK, G-BEFY and G-BFLR at various times.

G-BFLR had the much-talked-about low volume Micronair rotary atomizer spray units, their benefits being somewhat outweighed by the over-engineered spray booms, too heavy compared with the lighter Simplex booms.

There was a potato farmer not far from Longside airfield, name of Norrie, who operated 12E G-BDYY for a time as AGN Helicopters, whose ex Blue Eagles Sioux pilot Mr Vavangas (also well known I believe!) also kindly put up with my questions.

Lastly, DM Carnegie, an agricultural contractor based at their farm next to the then-secret Cold War USN communications site (RAF Edzell) operated a lovely reworked B47G-3B-1, G-BHBW, one of the bulk sell-offs of the AAC’s Sioux. IIRC Heliwork acquired lots of them. This one was zero-timed by Heliwork I believe, resplendent in white and dark blue. Certainly
cosmetically they had done a lovely job on this machine.

When I saw G-BHBW in 1980 it had not long started spraying work, operated for Carnegie’s by Gleneagles Helicopters with maint support from Perth and flown by Pat Orchard. Pat found himself sitting in a pile of scrap in a field a few months later when one of his rotor tips just clipped the door runner frame of a barn, one of those that pokes way out beyond the edge of the building. Luckily Pat just had a few bumps and scratches I believe. A nice gent, another who was happy to answer questions
from a daft bystander.

There must have been sufficient cash and profit in the game, as next year the Carnegies returned with a beautiful BRAND NEW 12E, G-DMCH. It was flown by Martin Nash, who I believe had attended to the purchase (and was maybe involved with operating the Bell, I believe he was involved at Gleneagles?)

The owners liked the Hiller better - it would lift a lot more gallons than the Bell 47. Mr Nash and the Carnegies put up with yet more questions and were kind enough to find me a place in their ground crew truck for the day, buy me a bag of chips at the end of the day, and give me a flight in the Hiller.

When I saw G-DMCH first, it was only a few weeks into the UK, all shiny and new, crisp red & white paint job, firm-looking seat cushions and a nice clean carpet on the floor.

Martin Nash flew the first season of spraying and then I believe concentrated on his a/c brokering business. The following year a New Zealander flew the Hiller, Peter something. He had been a long time at this, lower, and getting into awkward little bits of fields, but it never looked dangerous, he seemed like a machine, very consistent. Another pleasant guy, he was over here for our summer, his wife worked in the hotel/pub, and then they were off back to NZ for their summer.

By now, although the 12E was only a year old, it was hard to tell the colour of the machine, the seat cushions were flat and the floor carpet had vanished altogether!

“Stinkin, dirty“ as griffo says - the chemicals just got absolutely everywhere. The crew constantly battled to try and keep the bubble clean enough and the nozzles working properly. When the Scottish weather allowed, the pace was impressive - pilot and ground crew just attacked it all day, with a few short breaks, fill, spray, fill, spray, refuel. By the end of the day, you knew they’d been working hard, half of them were asleep on the drive back.

G-DMCH soldiered on, drivers and machine keeping out of trouble, until the eng packed in while bracken spraying in 1991, pretty good going for an ag helicopter, another pile of scrap but just light injuries thankfully.

Others regularly passing through Scotland on spraying jobs were Dollar, I recall another ex-Sioux of theirs, G-BGHN, being w/o when the sprayboom trailed thru the wheat, luckily just a few scratches for Ken Hall.

Phil Slattery's website has lots of good nostalgia about Dollar's forestry work: The Slatts Pages Index

I also remember seeing a spray 269C operated by Heli-Highland in the mid 80s?, the reg G-BSCD sticks in my mind, but G-INFO doesn’t help (still current as G-IBHH). I recall seeing the wee spray tanks on the 269 and thinking “the price to the farmer must be good for this to be worth it”, but lower operating costs, mind you.

I also remember seeing Sioux G-CHOP come through doing spraying at the end of the 80s.

I have some pics of most of these aircraft, if I can only find them!

Many of the Hillers in the late 1970s were the just-sold-off RN 705 Sq fleet: UK Serials

One of them, later to become G-BDOI with Management Aviation, was even still spraying in Hungary last year: Kukorica permetezés Hiller UH-12E-vel / Spraying cornfield with Hiller UH-12E - YouTube

While G-BBLB, BBLC, BBLD, BBLE, BBLF and BBLG were the ex Canadian forces “Nomads”: Canadian Forces Hillers

The Hillers and Bell I saw used Simplex spraygear:
http://www.simplexmfg.com/brochures/...9)Brochure.pdf – same as laydo’s pic of G-BBBA

They also had an Automatic Flagman, a device presumably largely redundant these days due to Ag Nav GPS and the like. I recall Carnegies used a mix of real flagmen as well as the AF. Although the AF was cheaper than using a bloke in the field, the Carnegies found the price of the flags was extortionate, and had a go at making their own (after all it’s just a bit of cardboard with some lavvy roll attached), but it was too fiddly, IIRC.

Apologies for this long rambling post, but the photos brought back good memories of impressive people and flying.

Any chance of posting the Bell & Hiller pics, laydo?

Savoia

Well done Watson!

Your list should provide a useful resource for those investigating the UK's rotary agricultural heritage. Hopefully others will chip in with the names of additional operators.

In the meantime, some agri-nostalgia:


Carl Agar, founder of Okanagan Helicopters (later Canadian Helicopters) flying a Bell 47 in early crop-spraying operations c. 1950 (Photo: Jack Schofield)


Another US-based Bell 47 engaged in agricultural operatrions also c. 1950

And for something this side of the Atlantic ..


Hiller UH-12A (Date and location unknown)

G-ANOB was first registered to Pest Control of Bourn, Cambridge in May 1954. From the she moved to Fison Airwork before being bought by a Richard Bradbury of Eastleigh in 1960. Evidently she was employed in spraying ops.




Shane; for you:

The number of those still around able to relate first-hand their experiences of flying the likes of the Sycamore, Widgeon or any number of aircraft from the 40's and 50's are becoming scarce. Take my godfather, 90 this year and, as with most of his generation, he doesn't stray online so any feedback regarding flying ops in these craft will need to come through family members or friends. But, let's keep at it because it would be good to receive some reports on how these aircraft flew (as you originally asked). I mean where can one go to read a 'flight report' on something like the Widgeon?

The Widgeon was an interesting project and one has to admire Westland's confidence in making the required investment to enhance upon the Dragonfly. They certainly achieved an improvement when it came to aesthetics in that the British Widgeon looked more reasonable than the American Drangonfly - or at least that's my view.

Some nostalgia for you .. The Widgeon (as you doubtless know) was the first aircraft to land at Westland's Heliport in Battersea and here below are some details of that event:

BATTERSEA: THE BEGINNING


Official Opening of Battersea


..

laydo

What an excellent piece, and a great insight into the Scottish
spraying scene. well done. I will be posting the Bell's and Hillers
later this afternoon.

By the way, if you look at the Hutchings Jet Rangers the "flagman" dispenser can be seen very clearly just above the skid, it seemed
to work very well.. John.

laydo

Here are the Bell's

G-BFJN


G-BAYX




G-BGHO






And a Unknown serial, Yellow Dollar machine

laydo

G-BBAZ






G-BBLO Sloane Helicopters


G-BBLE Central Helicopters Leamington


Hope these are of interest Gents.. John

Savoia

John, brilliant! Most enjoyable.

griffothefog

Laydo,

The Orange and white 47 was a G5 and I am certain was the aircraft that Dollar sold to a company called Napair aerial spraying services in Riyadh Saudi, which was then Cypriot registered. I flew it on the aphids contract out there in 1984. She suffered a tail rotor failure and was probably written off.

Unfortunately my pics book is in Cyprus so I cannot post pics on this one.

Brings back some horrid memories, but I grew a pair in those days at such a tender age

DennisK

Hi all ... this thread gets better and better, but surprised that my boss's old firm of Spoonair Ag Services hasn't been listed. (circa 1977-1980.) Also just love the occasionally forgotten 'names' that crop up (no pun intended) . At its most active the Spoonair business employed three Enstrom 28C turbo models on cereal work, bracken and the ever present spuds! Maneb was the order of the day for those I seem to recall. Then some fiery stuff for Septoria and 'Rincosporium' ... have I got that right? We also did a bit of stubble turnip seeding.

The company had some some good contracts with Boots, ICI (Plant protection) and local farmers. Two of our pilots were ex NZ guys being David Cook and Derek Alexander. The pair of them would whip through anything up to 100 acres an hour. (£4 an acre was the going rate then.) Paul Manning was our specialist Ag man. I'm hoping Savoia will get two or three pics of self at work using the Enstrom on hillside bracken while pulling some huge blade-tip vortices. I can remember Ray Peel at $$$ who was always very helpful to us as newcomers. Was Brian Izzard our Chief Ag pilot? Sorry guys ... the memories fade these days. BW to all. Dennis K.