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NH-90 problems

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NH-90 problems

Old 1st Feb 2019, 18:51
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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From first hand observation!

When thet get one NH90 flying, they do hot swap of crews, to be able to fly it, since it seems to be startup that it is the biggest problem.....


CB
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Old 1st Feb 2019, 19:00
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Breakdip, agree that an advanced AFCS and modern avionics are usuefull, especially in the maritime environment / posh hovering over water. However nothing that couldnít be added to an existing proven airframe. To develop an entirely new helicopter at such huge costs to hover over the water and dip a can in is a tad over the top.
The perfect world would have as few types as possible to get comanality of parts, gain from economy of scale and have a simple training pipeline. As long as it hovers all the fancy avionics can come in subsequent upgrades as development and technology advances.
Im being naive ofcourse as these projects are self licking lollipops for governments protecting industry and jobs- Yeovil wouldíve gone down the pan long ago if this wasnít the case- itís just a shame they turn out such poorly made helicopters.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 01:29
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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The Nh-90 has two engine types available, the GE T700 and the RR/TM RTM something something, what engine is being used by the Northern Lights Kingdoms?
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 07:16
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Norway , Sweden and Finland run the RTM322 in their NH-90's and Denmark run it in there EH101's. Swedish UH-60M and Danish MH-60R use the GE T700-701D
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 15:15
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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Dingo9, where the NFH stands out is the fact that all mission systems are integrated, which is a major advantage in a warfare scenario. E.g. Sweden have a highly modified TTH and added their mission systems afterwards. This has proven to be non effective unfortunately. The Germans are just unlucky with their IOC TTHs, but I have high hopes for their NFH program.
Maybe I am a bit biased with over 1000 hours in the machine, but trust me, it is a real delight to fly and very effective in a naval environment. The MH60 might be a true workhorse, but when viewed objectively, not comparable with a NH90. Plus, I have not seen the Danish operate their machine in a significant mission/exercise yet.
I am aware of some of the flaws of the machine, but it is too easy to focus on the defects. The maturity will come, as I experience some very professional engineers and crews working on that every day. Try to focus on her achievements and collaborate on the improvements. Yet again, I might be a little bit biased, sorry.

Ps. With regard to the operating costs per FH, it includes much more variables than just the flying part. For what I’ve read I cannot tell whether its comparing apples (NH90) to oranges (MH60), but I do know that my salary is just a small % of that.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 15:48
  #86 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dingo9 View Post
Iíll make it simple for governments and procurement people. You need 3 helicopters in your arsenal.
CH47
UH60
AH64
done. ( maybe EC135/145 for trg and LUH)
questions?
Originally Posted by dingo9 View Post
Breakdip, agree that an advanced AFCS and modern avionics are usuefull, especially in the maritime environment / posh hovering over water. However nothing that couldnít be added to an existing proven airframe. To develop an entirely new helicopter at such huge costs to hover over the water and dip a can in is a tad over the top.
The perfect world would have as few types as possible to get comanality of parts, gain from economy of scale and have a simple training pipeline. As long as it hovers all the fancy avionics can come in subsequent upgrades as development and technology advances.
Im being naive ofcourse as these projects are self licking lollipops for governments protecting industry and jobs- Yeovil wouldíve gone down the pan long ago if this wasnít the case- itís just a shame they turn out such poorly made helicopters.
I'll bite at this. The biggest bugbear to Yeovil products is the tortuous and arcane MoD procurement process which adds costs, complexity and completely spurious requirements. It then, has a culture of revisiting all decisions every two years and quite often changing the design. Then, the UK operator takes delight in looking across the pond and believing they can do no wrong.
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Old 2nd Feb 2019, 18:47
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 512 View Post
I'll bite at this. The biggest bugbear to Yeovil products is the tortuous and arcane MoD procurement process which adds costs, complexity and completely spurious requirements. It then, has a culture of revisiting all decisions every two years and quite often changing the design. Then, the UK operator takes delight in looking across the pond and believing they can do no wrong.
I donít mean to flipantly bash Yeovil. Iím British and would love to proudly stand behind machines made in Britain. Unfortunately the machines Iíve pesonally collected from Yeovil, as a comercial pilot, have been a bag of spannerís. Consistently fail acceptance flight with basic things, radios not working- reason Ariel not connected due to cable not being long enough. Heating not working- heating pipe not conected, thatís just to get it to limp out of the factory. After 6 months in our engineers hands all the faults are rectified and they become fairly decent machines, well designed with some really good points. However I stand by my first hand experience of the initial build quality being very shoddy. Maybe Iíve just been unlucky but it sets a bad impression for me am afraid.
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Old 17th Dec 2019, 22:09
  #88 (permalink)  
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When is someone, or some entitiy either within the Military or Government going to stand up and demand accountability and a resolution to the inability of this platform to mee the elementary goals of Operational readiness, reliability and cost? This product has produced a greater threat to defensive capabilities than any other helicopter in history.

Even more remarkable is the fact that Customers keep ordering them, despite knowing that this is the greatest hangar Queen of all time. Quite remarkable. https://www.newcastleherald.com.au/s...udget/?cs=9397
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Old 17th Dec 2019, 22:34
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Bug smashing civilian plank driver here.
Got up close and personal with the MRH90 at ADFA open day a year or two ago.
It looked like a real piece of Gucci gear as they say in the army.
Very flash - lots of composite - nice EFIS screens.
And admittedly with absolutely no expertise whatsoever - my general impression was that a bunch of soldiers and pilots would probably very rapidly break it.
If it didn't break itself.
Sort of like a high end European car - looks great, but you just know the electrics are going to sh!t themselves when you least need them to.
Opposite it sat a Blackhawk.
Old, beaten up - chipped paint inside, steam gauges, and built like the proverbial - but still flying strong.
Just sayin...
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 16:46
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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And yet the RNZAF NH-90's just seem to keep on trucking. Even into an active volcano this week to drop in a team to recover bodies.

Makes you wonder what the RNZAF is doing different. Perhaps they just know how to make things work. Like their Seasprites. Been in service now for 20 odd years and the Aussies gave up on ever getting them into service.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 21:51
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by noooby View Post
And yet the RNZAF NH-90's just seem to keep on trucking. Even into an active volcano this week to drop in a team to recover bodies.

Makes you wonder what the RNZAF is doing different. Perhaps they just know how to make things work. Like their Seasprites. Been in service now for 20 odd years and the Aussies gave up on ever getting them into service.
Look a bit deeper, the NZ Defence Minister called them "Unreliable Money Guzzlers" , and said in the past NZ bought the wrong helicopter but are stuck with it for the next 20+ years, the previous Govt's defence minister questioned the on going costs of the NH-90 were far above projected costs, yes the Kiwi's are stuck with a POS like the Aussies.

The ADF know they are stuck with a Lemon to the extent the reports on it in the list of "projects of concern" have had restricted security classification put on them so they can't be released to the press, the Army never wanted the MRH , they already had new syllabuses already written up for pilot upgrade training and technician ground schools for the UH-60M when the Govt chose the MRH , wasting all the time and effort already put in to what was believed by every one in the ADF was the obvious choice, the UH-60M.
In the CT role the MRH can't do what a Black Hawk can to the extent the Army are planning on the future light CT helo will take a lot of the roles currently done by the Black Hawk but can't be done by the MRH.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 23:20
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Get rid of the frikkin' Taipan and buy the V-280, Australia.
NZ - you should do the same too - great for all those long-range SAR missions.
Composites in the right places - but looks like it has the soul of a Blackhawk.
Hitting all it's development targets and goes like a cut cat too.
Wishful thinking...
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 09:14
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by noooby View Post
And yet the RNZAF NH-90's just seem to keep on trucking. Even into an active volcano this week to drop in a team to recover bodies.

Makes you wonder what the RNZAF is doing different. Perhaps they just know how to make things work. Like their Seasprites. Been in service now for 20 odd years and the Aussies gave up on ever getting them into service.
Is that apart from having to replace all the carbon fibre floors as the soldiers rifles were wearing holes through as they were having to transport with dangerous end on the floor?
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Old 19th Dec 2019, 21:06
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Autonomous Collectiv View Post
Is that apart from having to replace all the carbon fibre floors as the soldiers rifles were wearing holes through as they were having to transport with dangerous end on the floor?
Even in my days on Hueys, you ALWAYS had grunts put the pointy end down. I'd rather a bullet go through the fuel tank than the rotor system. And from the Huey days.... If you didn't have load spreaders on the floor, guess what. Grunts would wreck the floor with stones stuck in their boots and from the pointy ends of their rifles. Delams and punctures in the honeycomb and patching or replacing floor panels. Don't think that this is a carbon fibre problem. This is a floor protection problem. Solved in the Hueys with sheets of plywood with holes drilled to line up with seat mounts etc.

The politicians who complain about these machines are the same people who are surprised that a twin engined fly by wire helicopter is more expensive than a UH-1 to operate. (Stuff Apr 21 2017). Now there's a surprise.

So they went from mechanical flight controls with no autopilot and all metal structure, to fly by wire with 4 axis advanced auto pilot, composite structure and a whole heap of other technological advances and they think there won't be any issues. The RNZAF didn't even teach their Aircraft Tech's about composite repairs. That's because it was the Wood Worker trade who did all the composite work. So it's no wonder that a 40+ year leap in technology almost overnight has caught them napping.

Apart from spares issues, how is the dispatch rate now? Spares are another issue entirely and if you have a tight contract, you can get compensation for a lack of spares availability.
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 16:00
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blackhawk9 View Post
Look a bit deeper, the NZ Defence Minister called them "Unreliable Money Guzzlers" , and said in the past NZ bought the wrong helicopter but are stuck with it for the next 20+ years, the previous Govt's defence minister questioned the on going costs of the NH-90 were far above projected costs, yes the Kiwi's are stuck with a POS like the Aussies.

The ADF know they are stuck with a Lemon to the extent the reports on it in the list of "projects of concern" have had restricted security classification put on them so they can't be released to the press, the Army never wanted the MRH , they already had new syllabuses already written up for pilot upgrade training and technician ground schools for the UH-60M when the Govt chose the MRH , wasting all the time and effort already put in to what was believed by every one in the ADF was the obvious choice, the UH-60M.
In the CT role the MRH can't do what a Black Hawk can to the extent the Army are planning on the future light CT helo will take a lot of the roles currently done by the Black Hawk but can't be done by the MRH.
BlackHawk9, seems like you are having the proverbial case of sour grapes, go ahead and have some together with the Bell supporters.
"The Army already had syllabuses written up"? whose idea was it, someone who promised SuckHorsky that they would buy their museum pieces?

And Tartare, stick to what you know, apparently helicopters are not in that list.
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Old 28th Dec 2019, 04:31
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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And then thereís The ARH Tiger. How long did it take to get that airframe to an operational status in a useful role? Is it fully operational and able to be deployed yet?
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Old 28th Dec 2019, 09:28
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tottigol View Post
BlackHawk9, seems like you are having the proverbial case of sour grapes, go ahead and have some together with the Bell supporters.
"The Army already had syllabuses written up"? whose idea was it, someone who promised SuckHorsky that they would buy their museum pieces?

And Tartare, stick to what you know, apparently helicopters are not in that list.
Na mate, I was out well before they got the Airpuss shitboxes, I was happy on Iroquois, Chinooks, Black Hawks and Kiowa's, and at my age have enough licences that I never have to touch an Airpuss again quite happy on Sikorsky's and Bell's, the Army was honestly sure they were getting Mike models I think the most surprised was Chief Army , pure political decision , I believe it was John Anderson deputy PM and the Nat leader and Warren Truss who pushed for the MRH as it would be build here ie Australian Jobs , while the UH-60M's would come direct from the US like the MH-60R's did and that was the deciding factor to the pollies, didn't mater what the ADF wanted.
And the info I get ain't from troops or Junior offices , look at my age my mates still in are my age or a bit younger with equivalent rank.
Much more fun now to sit on the side and throw the occasional grenade .
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 16:33
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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perhaps already picked up in the other media by those who might be interested:

In Dutch (but Google is your friend)

NH90 Ä15.000 more expensive per hour than F16


In short: by deploying the NH90 to Mali there where not enough NH90ís left for the pilots to stay current and Special Forces could also not train.

Belgium NH90 TTH basically grounded and phased out
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Old 4th Aug 2020, 08:02
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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I thought this was interesting. They sent an ARH Tiger attack helicopter on a SAR mission, even though they had a MRH90 on board the same ship that launched the Tiger? Interesting choice in SAR helicopter! Was the MRH90 down for maintenance, I wonder?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...pacific-island

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Old 4th Aug 2020, 12:42
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Or Tiger with thermal sights and high resolution targeting optics might have been a smarter choice to supplement the Mk1 eyeball.
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