My-helicopter-hell-Pensioner-wants-ASBO
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My-helicopter-hell-Pensioner-wants-ASBO
I don't think this has been posted previously.
I have so far resisted commenting on the website, I shall see how the story develops....
I have so far resisted commenting on the website, I shall see how the story develops....
Pam Pringle used to love spending quiet time pottering around the garden.
But these days her sanctuary has been shattered – by the deafening roar of a helicopter.
One of Mrs Pringle's neighbours has started letting a friend land the craft on his back lawn.
But these days her sanctuary has been shattered – by the deafening roar of a helicopter.
One of Mrs Pringle's neighbours has started letting a friend land the craft on his back lawn.
The din and dust whipped up by the rotor blades have driven the 79-year-old grandmother of seven to distraction and she says her health is suffering.
She has tried to have an Asbo served on her neighbour, Peter Nash, and has taken legal advice on how to stop the landings but cannot afford to take him to court.
The 'deafening' two-seater aircraft arrives twice a week on average, she says, using a landing pad less than 40ft from her kitchen window.
It has taken off or landed four times in one day on at least one occasion, she says. 'It is a ghastly situation,' said Mrs Pringle, a widow.
'The wind-up time when it is taking off is between 12 and 15 minutes and it is very noisy.
'It builds to a crescendo and you couldn't hear a conversation indoors with the windows closed.'
She added: 'It is ruining my life. My garden used to be a great source of joy and pleasure to me.
'But the noise and dust mean it is impossible to be out there when the helicopter arrives or leaves and I have to keep my curtains closed for privacy.'
Mrs Pringle, who has four sons, moved into her £400,000 home in Blythburgh, Suffolk, in 1996.
Problems began in December 2007 when Mr Nash gave a friend, Bo Maggs, permission to land her Schweizer 269c helicopter in his garden.
Mrs Maggs makes the trips from her home in Shere, Surrey, 80 miles away to visit Mr Nash and the grave of her uncle.
Police initially told Mrs Pringle she could get an Asbo against Mr Nash. But the council investigated and told her that the noise the helicopter created, of 78.6 decibels, would probably not be high enough for a court to award an Asbo.
A decibel level of 80 is equivalent to heavy city traffic or a vacuum cleaner. Mrs Pringle, whose husband Robert was a company director, said: 'There is a heliport at Beccles 25 minutes away and I asked Mrs Maggs if she'd use it.
'She said it would be stupid to fly yourself to one place only to have to catch a taxi to another.
She has tried to have an Asbo served on her neighbour, Peter Nash, and has taken legal advice on how to stop the landings but cannot afford to take him to court.
The 'deafening' two-seater aircraft arrives twice a week on average, she says, using a landing pad less than 40ft from her kitchen window.
It has taken off or landed four times in one day on at least one occasion, she says. 'It is a ghastly situation,' said Mrs Pringle, a widow.
'The wind-up time when it is taking off is between 12 and 15 minutes and it is very noisy.
'It builds to a crescendo and you couldn't hear a conversation indoors with the windows closed.'
She added: 'It is ruining my life. My garden used to be a great source of joy and pleasure to me.
'But the noise and dust mean it is impossible to be out there when the helicopter arrives or leaves and I have to keep my curtains closed for privacy.'
Mrs Pringle, who has four sons, moved into her £400,000 home in Blythburgh, Suffolk, in 1996.
Problems began in December 2007 when Mr Nash gave a friend, Bo Maggs, permission to land her Schweizer 269c helicopter in his garden.
Mrs Maggs makes the trips from her home in Shere, Surrey, 80 miles away to visit Mr Nash and the grave of her uncle.
Police initially told Mrs Pringle she could get an Asbo against Mr Nash. But the council investigated and told her that the noise the helicopter created, of 78.6 decibels, would probably not be high enough for a court to award an Asbo.
A decibel level of 80 is equivalent to heavy city traffic or a vacuum cleaner. Mrs Pringle, whose husband Robert was a company director, said: 'There is a heliport at Beccles 25 minutes away and I asked Mrs Maggs if she'd use it.
'She said it would be stupid to fly yourself to one place only to have to catch a taxi to another.
'I'm pretty tough and I despise using words like stress or depression but I am becoming unwell.'
The British Helicopter Association said helicopters on private flights can land an unlimited number of times where a landowner gives permission.
But its chief executive Peter Norton added that measuring noise did not necessarily reflect 'how the human ear hears' the racket created by a helicopter.
Mr Nash, a former BA steward who is in his 60s, was unavailable to comment yesterday.
The British Helicopter Association said helicopters on private flights can land an unlimited number of times where a landowner gives permission.
But its chief executive Peter Norton added that measuring noise did not necessarily reflect 'how the human ear hears' the racket created by a helicopter.
Mr Nash, a former BA steward who is in his 60s, was unavailable to comment yesterday.
Mrs Maggs, who has been flying helicopters for nearly 20 years and who runs a business called Helihire, said: 'I could fly in and out of Peter's garden all day if I want but I try to be reasonable. I have fitted an extra silencer to the machine and when I take off or land I avoid flying over houses.'
She added: 'Peter has a heart condition and had to go to hospital. He is still on medication and says my visits have helped his recovery.'
Legal experts said Mrs Pringle could ask her neighbour to enter into mediation to put conditions on the use of the landing area.
Failing that, she could issue civil proceedings over the 'nuisance' caused by her neighbour.
But Jacqui Joyce, a solicitor specialising in neighbour disputes, said: 'That will cost money and there is no guarantee the courts will come down in her favour.'
She added: 'Peter has a heart condition and had to go to hospital. He is still on medication and says my visits have helped his recovery.'
Legal experts said Mrs Pringle could ask her neighbour to enter into mediation to put conditions on the use of the landing area.
Failing that, she could issue civil proceedings over the 'nuisance' caused by her neighbour.
But Jacqui Joyce, a solicitor specialising in neighbour disputes, said: 'That will cost money and there is no guarantee the courts will come down in her favour.'
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Bo Maggs
I know Bo Maggs, and she hardly comes into the category of anti-social pilot.
She's the type of person that would be as considerate as possible, given the constraints of a noisy,slow 269.
Four times a day? Possibly, once, when taking neighbours or land-owners for "thank you flights".
Maybe she could offer the complainant, her children, her grandchildren a similar treat?
And offer the Press a similar, but alternative, experience..........
Big Ls.
She's the type of person that would be as considerate as possible, given the constraints of a noisy,slow 269.
Four times a day? Possibly, once, when taking neighbours or land-owners for "thank you flights".
Maybe she could offer the complainant, her children, her grandchildren a similar treat?
And offer the Press a similar, but alternative, experience..........
Big Ls.
28 day
There is a 28 "movement rule" i.e. 14 take offs and 14 landings = 28.
that could be from YOUR piece of land, then you could do the same from your WIFE'S bit and your sons bit and so on. and then you have 84 movements.
Not to be confused with -
"within the curtillage of your garden regulation"
if you land "within the curtillage of your garden" there is no planning restriction on using your garden Helipad, ( assuming all other CAA rules are not contravened).. the "within your curtilliage of your garden bit" was recently dragged through endless planning meetings by heavy handed planning officers
( lets just say in Surrey) Eventually, after numerous very, very heated meetings the planning officers had to concede they were powerless!!!! They then had to break the bad news to the local anti heli brigade.!!!!!!! and confirm to the owner he could carry on!!!!! Which he does.
that could be from YOUR piece of land, then you could do the same from your WIFE'S bit and your sons bit and so on. and then you have 84 movements.
Not to be confused with -
"within the curtillage of your garden regulation"
if you land "within the curtillage of your garden" there is no planning restriction on using your garden Helipad, ( assuming all other CAA rules are not contravened).. the "within your curtilliage of your garden bit" was recently dragged through endless planning meetings by heavy handed planning officers
( lets just say in Surrey) Eventually, after numerous very, very heated meetings the planning officers had to concede they were powerless!!!! They then had to break the bad news to the local anti heli brigade.!!!!!!! and confirm to the owner he could carry on!!!!! Which he does.
Last edited by TOT; 15th Jul 2009 at 05:46.
TOT
28 day rule is what it says, you can do anything you want on your land for 28 days per calender year ( except motor sport which is 14 days). Therefore you can do as many to's and landings as you want. However this rule is the land connected to the deeds so you cant break up a field into 10 owners for instance.
Having battled with dartmoor National Park for some 17 years and spent a fortune !!!
28 day rule is what it says, you can do anything you want on your land for 28 days per calender year ( except motor sport which is 14 days). Therefore you can do as many to's and landings as you want. However this rule is the land connected to the deeds so you cant break up a field into 10 owners for instance.
Having battled with dartmoor National Park for some 17 years and spent a fortune !!!
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I think Bo Maggs should have at least extended the courtesy and asked
Mrs Pringle how she felt about living within what looks like 50yds from a small heliport.
If that was my old mum getting upset, the turds would be hitting the rotors.
Mrs Pringle how she felt about living within what looks like 50yds from a small heliport.
If that was my old mum getting upset, the turds would be hitting the rotors.
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Please.
From my reading of the article, the lady is talking about a normal frequency of twice a week - 4 movements. Assuming the (somewhat long sounding) 12-15 minutes, it is between 50 and 60 minutes of interruption in an 86,400 minute week, or an interruption of 0.05% of this person's peace and quiet, and that is assuming what appears to be a significantly extended startup and shutdown time.
I have no doubt that the lady genuinely is upset about this, but society is about taking a reasonable approach to everyone's rights and freedoms.
99.95% of the time, this lady gets exactly what she wants. But when someone else impinges on the way she likes the world to be, people start talking Asbos and ancient laws.
Anyone who lives near pub or any kind or working yard will get infrequent, occasional disturbances to their lives. Nobody is entitled to 100% of what they want to the exclusion of everyone else's freedom and liberty.
So this should be seen for what it is: an unreasonable attempt by one person to deny others the ability to do what they want to do, when they already get what they want a huge majority of the time.
My reading may be wrong, but this kind of aggressive denial of the freedom of ordinary people is what needs to be stopped, not the flying.
Lafite
From my reading of the article, the lady is talking about a normal frequency of twice a week - 4 movements. Assuming the (somewhat long sounding) 12-15 minutes, it is between 50 and 60 minutes of interruption in an 86,400 minute week, or an interruption of 0.05% of this person's peace and quiet, and that is assuming what appears to be a significantly extended startup and shutdown time.
I have no doubt that the lady genuinely is upset about this, but society is about taking a reasonable approach to everyone's rights and freedoms.
99.95% of the time, this lady gets exactly what she wants. But when someone else impinges on the way she likes the world to be, people start talking Asbos and ancient laws.
Anyone who lives near pub or any kind or working yard will get infrequent, occasional disturbances to their lives. Nobody is entitled to 100% of what they want to the exclusion of everyone else's freedom and liberty.
So this should be seen for what it is: an unreasonable attempt by one person to deny others the ability to do what they want to do, when they already get what they want a huge majority of the time.
My reading may be wrong, but this kind of aggressive denial of the freedom of ordinary people is what needs to be stopped, not the flying.
Lafite
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if you land "within the curtillage of your garden" there is no planning restriction on using your garden Helipad,
Where is the esteemed Judge FL?
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Do people never learn?
Sadly this problem becomes the Brush that Tars us all as "Unreasonable" landing any sort of Helicopter in close to any neighbours building has to be viewed with some sort of septic eye, we are told(by the reporters in this case) that the pilot "Bo Maggs" has said she could land there all the time, that tars Mz Maggs with the title of an unreasonable person/pilot/woman.
We are told that we are able to land in any area that is large enough to take the heli we may be flying, indeed we all are taught close confine landing and take off, but to ignore near neighbours is tantamount to a declaration of "I'm all right Jack, you can Bugger off".
Very sadly it does stink of Mz Maggs being very very unreasonable!!
I thought as Heli pilots we are supposed to be deep thinkers and planners, seems a new breed are around!
Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb/2
We are told that we are able to land in any area that is large enough to take the heli we may be flying, indeed we all are taught close confine landing and take off, but to ignore near neighbours is tantamount to a declaration of "I'm all right Jack, you can Bugger off".
Very sadly it does stink of Mz Maggs being very very unreasonable!!
I thought as Heli pilots we are supposed to be deep thinkers and planners, seems a new breed are around!
Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb/2
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It's amazing just how many complainers change their view of helicopters once they've had a free ride on one and seen their house /village from the air.
Suddenly the pilot is seen as a good guy/gal instead of a pest. It's got to be worth the £50 it will cost. Even if the offer isn't taken up it opens up a friendly dialogue.
Suddenly the pilot is seen as a good guy/gal instead of a pest. It's got to be worth the £50 it will cost. Even if the offer isn't taken up it opens up a friendly dialogue.
Hovering AND talking
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Very sadly it does stink of Mz Maggs being very very unreasonable!!
Cheers
Whirls
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Mother-in-law lives near Blythburgh, its thankfully a bit more than 80 miles from Harrow, yet alone Surrey! I think the neighbour should post some pictures on the views from the cockpit (next door) thread.
Dave
Dave
I thought as Heli pilots we are supposed to be deep thinkers and planners, seems a new breed are around
Now why would you think the helicopter pilot is the unreasonable one in this matter?
Daft old thing is just looking for something to talk to people about.....and this is just an easy target. If it wasn't the helicopter it would be the neighbor's trees overhanging her garden and dropping leaves upon it....or perhaps the neighbor's fence needs mending.....heavens knows what she would think if the neighbors had teen aged children.
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She added: 'It is ruining my life. My garden used to be a great source of joy and pleasure to me.
'But the noise and dust mean it is impossible to be out there when the helicopter arrives or leaves and I have to keep my curtains closed for privacy.'
'But the noise and dust mean it is impossible to be out there when the helicopter arrives or leaves and I have to keep my curtains closed for privacy.'
And as for anyone passing by the front of the house who might be able to see in? got to stop that too! Close the road! move the neighbours out!
Lafite.
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But the council investigated and told her that the noise the helicopter created, of 78.6 decibels, would probably not be high enough for a court to award an ASBO.
(US Department of Health)And the beat up about 12-15 minutes per session
Having got nowhere with the Council, I suspect that the poor old dear is now turing to popular support to justify her case.What a sad state of affairs
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the substantial leylandii hedge between the back gardens; surely it masks the noise from the downstairs where her kitchen must be?
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Bhaa!! Just a couple of hens clucking at each other ..
Must be a woman thing :- Arms folded tightly, lips pursed. “You cant land that thing here”.. “Can if I want”
Must be a woman thing :- Arms folded tightly, lips pursed. “You cant land that thing here”.. “Can if I want”