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PHI Crash in Louisiana Jan 2009 - 8 Dead, 1 Injured

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PHI Crash in Louisiana Jan 2009 - 8 Dead, 1 Injured

Old 17th Feb 2009, 19:56
  #201 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: florida
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Sikorsky has just come out with a new CCS for operations with the Acrylic windshields as a result of this accident.
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 20:36
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Our experience has been that alternately flashing lights fitted to the front of a helicopter do work, and well, to part the sea of birds ahead.
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 22:53
  #203 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Acronym of the day. What is a CCS?

Is it advisory, compulsory, affecting the airworthiness, background fluff?

Go ahead and "spell it out in simple terms", I can take it.
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Old 17th Feb 2009, 23:46
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure what CCS stands for but it appears to be the first 3 characters of their "All Operators Letter".

Example: All Operators Letter (AOL) CCS-76-AOL-05-21
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 00:06
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds like an apology for poor manners might be in order back a few posts. People should be able to place objective comment on the page without being belittled or ridiculed....moderators?

DD
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 02:05
  #206 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Non-Owner/Operator of a Sikorsky

Since I am not a Owner/Operator of a Sikorsky, and cannot log on, nor register for one. Does anyone have a link or a source that I can refer to and see a copy of this? (Sikorsky CCS-76-AOL-09-0004)

If you have a Sikorsky log in you can read the letter at http://wcs.sikorsky.com/detailswcs/0,9602,CLI1_DIV62_ETI209,00.html

Last edited by buckeem; 18th Feb 2009 at 02:09. Reason: Addition of Link and CCS Ref
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 02:16
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Eric,
As I dont really yet know the detail of the accident, I am not sure if the throttle thing is a red herring or not. But....I am thinking swiss cheese model here. IF there was a birdstrike. IF the bird penetrated the cockpit. Would roof or collective throttles be better?

Pilot incapacitation from bird strike is extrememly varied from total through to no injury. In the initial few seconds after a big hit, it is possible that pilots could be momentarily incapacitated, by shock, by fluids, by wind rush, by eye injury, even by being winded by the bird mass hitting the sternum. Would'nt it be nice if the aircraft engines were still fine and beaut regardless? How could a PNF even see the aircraft display systems through all the broken plexiglass, bird guts and wind? What if the PF took the bird in the head? To many IFs!!

So, if you dont lower the lever, how long before you lose control of the aircraft at 700 ft, 140 KIAS (high collective setting) with a very low inertia rotor system? I am thinking 5 or so seconds would produce an irrecoverable situation, probably a lot less. Would you be able to take a bird and plexiglass to the face (no helmet) or chest, at 140 Nautical Miles Per hour and do anything but scream "WTF?" in the next 3 or 4 seconds? Seems like the throttles staying on would be an enormous help. Especially with the autopilot systems the C++ has.

So if a manufacturer has the choice (and many do and will have in future designs), why not put the throttles back on the collective? Engine emergencies, RRPM issues, tailrotor malfunctions, bird strikes, and more would benefit from throttles on collective. My opinion anyway - remember I dont think there is enough detail in this particular accident to use it to back my opinion - it is just a discussion point.
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 04:08
  #208 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
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700 feet

It is standard operating procedure for all aircraft in the GOM that are within a 10 mi radius of their departure base to maintain 700 feet while outbound. That is probably why they were at 700 feet.

They don't fly the 76 that low unless they have too.

And most all PHI aircraft have pulse landing lights. Unknown as to whether they were on.
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 11:19
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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buckeem,
The AOL was to check the type of screens fitted to the aircraft. There are 3 types of screens that can be fitted, vis- glass, stretched acrylic and cast acrylic. The 2 types of acrylic have different characteristics due to the manufacturing process.

It details a way of checking the type of acrylic you may have fitted and has a form to fill in with serial number/reg/type of screen that then gets sent off to Sikorsky.
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 12:47
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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I find it interesting the thought is the bird or broken plexiglass windscreen took both throttles back but no talk of the T -handles.

They are just forward of the throttles and one would think they would have come back to! Which would have given them a indication on the FDR data that the generators came off line.
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 14:48
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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The 'T' handles seem to sit further forward and more 'out of the way' than the engine levers. Just a thought.
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 16:55
  #212 (permalink)  
 
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With the throttles in the fly gate they sit about one inch lower then the T handles and yes the T handles are more forward about 5 inches.

I was just thinking a piece of material large enough to catch both throttle levers and not hit a least one T -handle must have been just the right trajectory?

Definelty wasn´t there day.

On the plastic wind screen issue now with the letter out from Sikorsky I wonder what make of wind screen was PHI using? The Sikorsky one, Aeronautical accessories or Tech Tools?
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 18:22
  #213 (permalink)  
 
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Speed Restrictions per CCS-76-AOL-09-0004

Unstable Load,
I read on another site (See Below) that there were speed restrictions listed for the cast plastic windows.. Can you tell me if this is true? If so what where the speeds listed for each?

In addition, thank you for your reply, I truly appreciate yours and everyone else’s insight on this situation.

"CCS-76-AOL-09-0004 states that if you have cast plastic windshields you should fly no faster than 109 knots."
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 18:40
  #214 (permalink)  
 
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Does anybody know whether the only survivor is now in the condition to bring more light in this suspicious tragedy or not?

skadi
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 18:43
  #215 (permalink)  
 
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"CCS-76-AOL-09-0004 states that if you have cast plastic windshields you should fly no faster than 109 knots."
Some one please tell me PHI was not using cast plastic windscreens!
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 18:51
  #216 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Lone Survivor - Steven Yelton Update - 10 Feb

This is the last news release - jd

Associated Press - February 10, 2009 5:54 AM ET
NEW ORLEANS (AP) - The sole survivor of a helicopter crash that killed eight offshore workers last month may be able to return to Texas after one more surgery.
Steven Yelton of Floresville, Texas has undergone eight surgeries since the Jan. 4 accident. Doctors say Yelton may be transferred to a rehabilitation facility in Texas after one more surgery, according to Paul Sterbcow, a family lawyer.
Sterbcow says Yelton is conscious, but sometimes he does not recognize people and his surroundings. He said Yelton suffered skeletal damage, internal injuries and chemical burns.
A trust account has been set up for the family. His wife is six-months pregnant and the couple has two young children.
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 19:25
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Sikorsky says:

As an alternative to the use of the Sikorsky approved windshield types, operators with aircraft possessing cast acrylic windshields can attain an equivalent level of impact tolerance by limiting the maximum speed
of the helicopter to no more than 109 knots.
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 20:15
  #218 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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748P Windshield

At this time, all we know is that 748P had acrylic windshields. The type has not been verified outside the investigation.

No one has posted any information concerning speed restrictions for the Stretched Acrylic. I would like to see those as well, if availabe on the CCS. I am interested in the difference in impact strength between the two. Is it marginal or significant?

Last edited by buckeem; 24th Feb 2009 at 19:10. Reason: Photo Removed
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 20:43
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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The latest Sikorsky release was simply to advise us that IF we desire impact protection equivalent to glass windows, we need to fly it at 109 kts.

Now we just need to decide whether or not we desire that protection....or will that be decided for us? A total crap-shoot, really.

I would expect that the larger operators to begin replacing their plastic windows, especially those who still have possession of the original glass.

Since I have never flown one with glass windows, I assume that they are the laminated safety glass type??

Last edited by TheVelvetGlove; 19th Feb 2009 at 02:39.
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Old 18th Feb 2009, 21:29
  #220 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Don't forget that with 2 engines at idle there is no warning horn. No ENG OUT, no LOW ROTOR. If the windshield is busted there is no reason to suspect a low rotor until too damm late.

Depending on rigging friction, the engine levers can be a lot easier to move than the T-handles.
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