SARH to go
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Starting the APU on the 92, and im sure on the 225 if they specify it, takes only a few seconds. its one switch, and since its only a little engine, its up and running in no time. then you can sit about on full power for as long as you like waiting for the final call to go or while waiting in the field, for example in the mountains working with MRT's etc.
this is about both aircraft here, notice how i did that?
about the cabin though. "people adapt quickly"
dont have to it in a 92!
oops, my stab at constructive brainstorming went a bit a wry at the end there!!
this is about both aircraft here, notice how i did that?
about the cabin though. "people adapt quickly"
dont have to it in a 92!
oops, my stab at constructive brainstorming went a bit a wry at the end there!!
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Hi Guys
I have little doubt that both remaining competitors have looked very closely at the merits (and disadvantages) of both the S92 and the 225. My understanding is that the detailed nature of the requirement demands that they do, and both will have had to make their own stuided conclusions as to which they prefer. I can understand CHC staying with the S92 over the alternative 225 ( of which they are the biggest operator so far). Given CHC's investment in the S92 for the Interim UK HMCG contract I can imagine that this had a significant influence in not moving away from the 92 given the closeness in so many ways of the 2 ac in terms of meeting the SAR-H requirements. IMO either ac will be a step forward from the venerable SK, and both will need a little time to bed down properly in the new SAR-H role. Each new operator/role always places additonal demands on a platform that are only exposed by the detailed nature and geography of that new role, so whoever wins we should expect these sort of teething troubles no matter how well the manufacturer's and bid winners believe they have created a great SAR platform and service. Lets hope the government moves forward to a decision soon - anyone who knows anything about introducing a new type and service in such a demanding role, will understand that time is already (too?) tight for all contingencies to get the service up and running to contract - so any political delay will not be helpful.
I have little doubt that both remaining competitors have looked very closely at the merits (and disadvantages) of both the S92 and the 225. My understanding is that the detailed nature of the requirement demands that they do, and both will have had to make their own stuided conclusions as to which they prefer. I can understand CHC staying with the S92 over the alternative 225 ( of which they are the biggest operator so far). Given CHC's investment in the S92 for the Interim UK HMCG contract I can imagine that this had a significant influence in not moving away from the 92 given the closeness in so many ways of the 2 ac in terms of meeting the SAR-H requirements. IMO either ac will be a step forward from the venerable SK, and both will need a little time to bed down properly in the new SAR-H role. Each new operator/role always places additonal demands on a platform that are only exposed by the detailed nature and geography of that new role, so whoever wins we should expect these sort of teething troubles no matter how well the manufacturer's and bid winners believe they have created a great SAR platform and service. Lets hope the government moves forward to a decision soon - anyone who knows anything about introducing a new type and service in such a demanding role, will understand that time is already (too?) tight for all contingencies to get the service up and running to contract - so any political delay will not be helpful.
Will we now see the recently ex-mil folks who have been working for AirKnight going cap in hand to Soteria? Or even trying to get back in to the RAF/RN...crew quotas have just increased, after all!
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I hear of all sorts of change going on within the CHC SAR programme right now, as a new leader stamps his authority on the entire organization. 
What on earth is going on?
What on earth is going on?
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One club
How do you know?
How do you know?
I would imagine if either bidder was leaked early as the 'preferred' then the other would mount a significant legal challenge that would delay the process further. Something nobody wants.
Of course should Soteria end up as the winner I have no doubt oneclub will rant I told you so and we will all think he has an inside link to the world of UK SAR. If they lose we will not hear from him again. Don't rise to it.
NSG
I’m sure the Norwegian operator had an all Puma fleet and wanted it to remain that way.
Regarding post interim S-92 SAR selection, the Saudi MOI has just completed a 16 ship delivery used for Interdiction/SAR OPS and didn’t Bristow’s place a SAR S-92 into Nigeria last year?
I’m sure the Norwegian operator had an all Puma fleet and wanted it to remain that way.
Regarding post interim S-92 SAR selection, the Saudi MOI has just completed a 16 ship delivery used for Interdiction/SAR OPS and didn’t Bristow’s place a SAR S-92 into Nigeria last year?
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Some interesting comments by Bill Chiles on page 8 in this article: RH Dec 2009-Jan 2010
Read recently that the 84 Sqn contract in Cyprus is up at the end of March, will FBH get it again?
Read recently that the 84 Sqn contract in Cyprus is up at the end of March, will FBH get it again?
Spanish Waltzer -
Regardless of whether you are correct or not about Oneclubs post,
your comment
"I would imagine if either bidder was leaked early as the 'preferred' then the other would mount a significant legal challenge that would delay the process further. Something nobody wants"
is, I think, incorrect.
The selection and announcement of a "preferred bidder" is a perfectly normal business practice (just try googling the term), and I seem to remember that CHC were announced as preferred bidder for the interim SAR contract before the final decision was announced (but cannot immediately find the reference, so I might be wrong)
This quote from a business text-book refers...
"For large-scale and high-value contracts, the client may undertake tender evaluation in two stages. The first stage uses the process of technical and financial evaluation to identify, say, two or three shortlisted bidders who are asked in the second stage to refine their bids and develop further their proposed solutions to the client’s requirements. Commercial negotiations may start during this second stage. The short-listed bidders will be evaluated on their final responses and the client will then select a preferred bidder for detailed negotiations. Following a further review a final decision will be made"
Regardless of whether you are correct or not about Oneclubs post,
your comment
"I would imagine if either bidder was leaked early as the 'preferred' then the other would mount a significant legal challenge that would delay the process further. Something nobody wants"
is, I think, incorrect.
The selection and announcement of a "preferred bidder" is a perfectly normal business practice (just try googling the term), and I seem to remember that CHC were announced as preferred bidder for the interim SAR contract before the final decision was announced (but cannot immediately find the reference, so I might be wrong)
This quote from a business text-book refers...
"For large-scale and high-value contracts, the client may undertake tender evaluation in two stages. The first stage uses the process of technical and financial evaluation to identify, say, two or three shortlisted bidders who are asked in the second stage to refine their bids and develop further their proposed solutions to the client’s requirements. Commercial negotiations may start during this second stage. The short-listed bidders will be evaluated on their final responses and the client will then select a preferred bidder for detailed negotiations. Following a further review a final decision will be made"
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I was under the impression that 'down select' was on the 22nd January. Hey ho.
Secondly (even though I am happy either way) bear in mind that the chosen one (225/92) has to survive 35 years of SAR. How old is the 225 currently?
This contract will go ahead, there will not be a delay - the SeaKing fleet is relying on a replacement a/c NOW. Further delays (after 8years of planning already) will cost the (new) government dearly.
Having said that, exactly this happened in Germany with their SeaKing replacement (the NH90 will not be replacing it now). Secondly, did you know that 85% of ALL previous MoD contracts were between 3 and 5 yrs late
Secondly (even though I am happy either way) bear in mind that the chosen one (225/92) has to survive 35 years of SAR. How old is the 225 currently?
This contract will go ahead, there will not be a delay - the SeaKing fleet is relying on a replacement a/c NOW. Further delays (after 8years of planning already) will cost the (new) government dearly.
Having said that, exactly this happened in Germany with their SeaKing replacement (the NH90 will not be replacing it now
). Secondly, did you know that 85% of ALL previous MoD contracts were between 3 and 5 yrs late
It might have already been mentioned, but apart from the CG bases already up and running, which will be the first military base to be converted by the winning bidder to the new aircraft type?
What are the sloping ground limits for the S92 and 225? I know that the Puma is prone to tipping over even on level ground if the xwind is strong or inappropriate taxying techniques are used. There have been at least a couple of instances at Aberdeen plus many close calls.
A SAR aircraft has to have good stability as many landing sites are not level!!
HF
A SAR aircraft has to have good stability as many landing sites are not level!!
HF
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A SAR aircraft has to have good stability as many landing sites are not level!!
I would hazard a guess that both bidders took sloping ground limits into consideration when selecting their chosen platform.
I also suspect that the MCA & MOD may also give this element of the aircraft's performance suitable weighting in deciding who should be chosen to provide the contract.
The SAR-H IPT issued a substantial requirements document, and despite what some people on this forum may think, the Project Team are not one big troop of baboons
!
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What are the sloping ground limits for the S92 and 225?
Nose up: 12 degrees (8 if above 10000kg)
Nose down: 8
Lateral: 8
For stopping rotor:
Nose up: 10 degrees
Nose down: 6
Lateral: 5
As for age; 225's have been operating in the North Sea for at least 5 years.
Is there not a seperate thread comparing S92 and 225?
chcoffshore - both bidders have their transition plans but nothing offical will be released until the decision is made.
However, it makes sense to convert the Mk 3 flights first becaause the aircraft are older and more knackered - the 3As have better avionics/autopilot and are more serviceable.
If it were me I would tackle Valley first because the engineering there is still struggling and it would be easy to improve on the availability and look good - it also allows the bidders OCU to be establlished in its permanent location and co-locates the new management with the old (mil) meaning that in theory any difficulties with the transition process would be easier to sort in person. From there one could just work clockwise round the country.
However, it makes sense to convert the Mk 3 flights first becaause the aircraft are older and more knackered - the 3As have better avionics/autopilot and are more serviceable.
If it were me I would tackle Valley first because the engineering there is still struggling and it would be easy to improve on the availability and look good - it also allows the bidders OCU to be establlished in its permanent location and co-locates the new management with the old (mil) meaning that in theory any difficulties with the transition process would be easier to sort in person. From there one could just work clockwise round the country.