Canada: Cormorant & Cyclone thread
The new deal also contains other breaks for Sikorsky. It will not have to produce helicopters with a 30-minute run-dry capability. That capability means the aircraft must continue flying for that time even if it loses engine oil in flight.
Tina Crouse, a DND spokeswoman, said Sikorsky has made modifications to the gear box of the Cyclone to safeguard against a total loss of lubrication. “This has been accepted by the [Air Force] as there is no impact to overall operational capabilities and will not risk crew safety,” she added.
Tina Crouse, a DND spokeswoman, said Sikorsky has made modifications to the gear box of the Cyclone to safeguard against a total loss of lubrication. “This has been accepted by the [Air Force] as there is no impact to overall operational capabilities and will not risk crew safety,” she added.
It would appear the revised bypass system, new 6 stud filter housing, reverse flow filter, and oil port routing changes sufficed for the MoD. That, or they realized they were never going to get a truly redesigned box.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: I have a home where the Junglies roam.
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So just to recap. . .Sikorsky have secured MORE money to deliver LESS helicopter 10 years later than required? They have effectively made Canada their bitch haven't they? Way to go Sikorsky! (I mean, credit where it's due and all that!)
Suddenly Chinook HC.3 seems like a small hiccup!
Suddenly Chinook HC.3 seems like a small hiccup!
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Sky
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Presidential will save the day.....
This has been Sik. M. O. for the past decade. Low ball bid, promise no cost to the customer for capability development, win the contract; than start the re-negotiations for what the customer THOUGHT they bought....
Never fear Canadian brethren. My crystal ball says the US Presidential Helicopter (VXX) win....errr... (sole bidder award) by Sik. will ultimately lead to the US government paying for development of an "enhanced" MGB for national security reasons. (notice: "enhanced" doesn't imply that anything is necessarily wrong with the original MGB, and a bunch of S-92 customers won't demand a replacement MGB) In fact Sik. will likely offer it as a high priced option on the S-92 in the future.......
Yes. I realize that the New VXX contract was FFP, but that was only for the initial 6 EMD aircraft. The remaining helicopters will have to have a follow-on contract be "negotiated" and signed before the fleet is actually delivered. Perfect opportunity to insert the "enhanced" MGB option. This is the same tactic the OEM on Tanker will use after taking a loss on the initial 17 KC-46's when it comes time to actually deliver the remaining +100 aircraft.
YEP. Acquisition is definitely fixed. Just ask them......
We've ALL seen this movie before.
Never fear Canadian brethren. My crystal ball says the US Presidential Helicopter (VXX) win....errr... (sole bidder award) by Sik. will ultimately lead to the US government paying for development of an "enhanced" MGB for national security reasons. (notice: "enhanced" doesn't imply that anything is necessarily wrong with the original MGB, and a bunch of S-92 customers won't demand a replacement MGB) In fact Sik. will likely offer it as a high priced option on the S-92 in the future.......
Yes. I realize that the New VXX contract was FFP, but that was only for the initial 6 EMD aircraft. The remaining helicopters will have to have a follow-on contract be "negotiated" and signed before the fleet is actually delivered. Perfect opportunity to insert the "enhanced" MGB option. This is the same tactic the OEM on Tanker will use after taking a loss on the initial 17 KC-46's when it comes time to actually deliver the remaining +100 aircraft.
YEP. Acquisition is definitely fixed. Just ask them......
We've ALL seen this movie before.
Never fear Canadian brethren. My crystal ball says the US Presidential Helicopter (VXX) win....errr... (sole bidder award) by Sik. will ultimately lead to the US government paying for development of an "enhanced" MGB for national security reasons. (notice: "enhanced" doesn't imply that anything is necessarily wrong with the original MGB, and a bunch of S-92 customers won't demand a replacement MGB) In fact Sik. will likely offer it as a high priced option on the S-92 in the future.......
Though in this case, VXX-II mandates no substantial airframe or dynamic system alterations to the platform, so even NAVAIR has somehow convinced themselves the 4 bladed S92A is up to snuff.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somerset
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ROFL!!!!!
Howls of laughter no doubt in Yeovil and Cascina, tinged with genuine feelings of sorrow for the Fine Canadian chaps and chappesses (and also I guess future POTUS) who will be lumbered with this lemon!!
'world’s most capable maritime helicopter'... my
!!!
DM
'world’s most capable maritime helicopter'... my
!!!DM
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Sky
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It only mandates "as is" for the EMD (6) aircraft. They can negotiate any changes they want for the production contract.
I bet the "enhanced" MGB and likely 5 blade hub will be ready in time for the follow-on negotiations........
I bet the "enhanced" MGB and likely 5 blade hub will be ready in time for the follow-on negotiations........
They can negotiate any changes they want for the production contract.
So the US taxpayer will undoubtedly end up funding the "new VXX" MGB which will makes it way out to the S92A and H92/CH148 fleet eventually, even though its been in work for the better part of a decade.
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Sky
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The new deal also contains other breaks for Sikorsky. It will not have to produce helicopters with a 30-minute run-dry capability. That capability means the aircraft must continue flying for that time even if it loses engine oil in flight.
If it's been "in work" for the better part of a decade by Sik. why has it not been developed or fielded? 10 years is a long time for an "enhanced" MGB to be "in work"?
Answer IS: SIK wanted someone to pay for something SIK had already promised to provide to Canada. Someone besides themselves that is.
Embarrassing will be nothing compared with the backlash if/when one is ditched at sea following a mgb failure and no auto life raft deployment ,or maybe an engine failure at mauw when they find it won't maintain flight on one engine !
Even worse when the Canadian public find out that none of the above would be permitted in the oil and gas industry.
Even worse when the Canadian public find out that none of the above would be permitted in the oil and gas industry.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with you. The embarrassment of it all is merely a present thing. The potential regrets to come from this decision all are future matters that, if they come to pass as you portend, will prove to be far more difficult to swallow than the current victory for Sikorsky has turned out to be.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's all been deathly quiet on the Cyclone for 6 months in Rotorheads and nothing (that I've seen anyway) in the industry media either. Any news if and when you'll be getting these aircraft???
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cyclone Helicopters to Reach Full Operating Capability In 2025: DND (excerpt)
The country's air force is now projecting it will be 2025 before its long-suffering CH-148 Cyclone helicopter fleet is fully up to speed with all of the aircraft, pilots and ground crew needed for deployments — both at home and overseas.
The date for what's known in the military as Full Operational Capability (FOC) will be almost 21 years after Paul Martin's Liberal government signed a contract with U.S. defence giant Sikorsky Aircraft to deliver 28 state-of-the-art maritime helicopters.
It will also be seven years after the last of the vintage CH-124 Sea King choppers is scheduled to retire after flying for over five decades.
"It is really a case study in how not to acquire something," said George Petrolekas, a retired colonel and senior military adviser. "It's a long saga that has to do with choices made by various governments across the political spectrum."
The country's air force is now projecting it will be 2025 before its long-suffering CH-148 Cyclone helicopter fleet is fully up to speed with all of the aircraft, pilots and ground crew needed for deployments — both at home and overseas.
The date for what's known in the military as Full Operational Capability (FOC) will be almost 21 years after Paul Martin's Liberal government signed a contract with U.S. defence giant Sikorsky Aircraft to deliver 28 state-of-the-art maritime helicopters.
It will also be seven years after the last of the vintage CH-124 Sea King choppers is scheduled to retire after flying for over five decades.
"It is really a case study in how not to acquire something," said George Petrolekas, a retired colonel and senior military adviser. "It's a long saga that has to do with choices made by various governments across the political spectrum."
Doesn't seem like a full UFCM but that appears to be the way they are treating it.
Sounds more like the sort of thing a dodgy gyro could produce.
Sounds more like the sort of thing a dodgy gyro could produce.
I haven't seen one without a gyro. Granted the modern gyros use lasers rather than spinning hunks of iron.
