Guimbal Cabri G2
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 550
Likes: 12
From: Africa
Baltimore accident
Seems another Cabri has gone down, if the report is accurate, that is? You have to go pretty far down to find where they mention the type.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...504-story.html
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...504-story.html
Baltimore accident thread
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Berlin
[QUOTE=Robbiee;10463235]Seems another Cabri has gone down, if the report is accurate, that is? You have to go pretty far down to find where they mention the type]
The relish with which you report anything negative about a Cabri is pretty sad but when pilots have lost their lives it becomes unacceptable. This should be a place where we celebrate flying not a place for petty vendettas
The relish with which you report anything negative about a Cabri is pretty sad but when pilots have lost their lives it becomes unacceptable. This should be a place where we celebrate flying not a place for petty vendettas
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
Likes: 65
From: California
,...but if you hypocrites (who make waaay more "inappropriate comments" whenever a Robbie crashes) want to ban me again, feel free.
- butters
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: france
Chief Bottle Washer
Joined: Sep 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,257
Likes: 1,438
From: PPRuNe
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 787
Likes: 44
From: Europe
.
Not bad for a small company !
Vertical Magazine announces results of 2019 airframe & engine OEM surveys :
"Hélicoptères Guimbal scored the highest marks among airframe manufacturers"
http://www.verticalmag.com/press-rel...e-oem-surveys/
.
Not bad for a small company !
Vertical Magazine announces results of 2019 airframe & engine OEM surveys :
"Hélicoptères Guimbal scored the highest marks among airframe manufacturers"
http://www.verticalmag.com/press-rel...e-oem-surveys/
.
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Berlin
Congratulations to Bruno, Raphael, Roland and all the staff at the factory. Its well deserved and hard earned, they are a great company making a great helicopter with a lot more to come in the future. Just a shame they have such bad representation in the UK.*
Joined: Jul 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 57
From: UK
Probably because of this:
Its a continuation of a long running vendetta that the author has against the Cabri, it's full of lies and sensationalism, verging on libellous. I can PM you the article as Im unable to post a pic here as Im new! I wrote to the Editor as did most Cabri pilots I know to complain but all I got was abuse from the editor!
Joined: Mar 2019
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 252
Likes: 29
From: Europe
While there are no outright factual lies stated in the article, the writing and article structure is subtly rigged against the Cabri as a helicopter. I'll try to avoid wading too deeply into the G2 vs. R22 debate here, and rather just point out issues with PM's article.
He opens with saying that he has no "petty vendetta" against the Cabri, rather "my questions stem from an interest in aviation safety". If this were truly the case, he shouldn't have spent about half a page listing in unnecessary detail the repetitive crash-after-crash theme. The same point could have been raised with "of these 30 crashes, an overwhelming trend is loss of directional control, often attributed or related to pilot unfamiliarity with Fenestron control". Spending more than half of the article talking about repetitive crashes relating to the fenestron, then subtly inserting the sentence "Guimbal has altered a few things on the helicopter - warning lights and so forth - but pilots keep having the same accident" subconsciously rigs an unsuspecting reader to think the Cabri's design is flawed and that Guimbal should change it but are sitting idle, not caring about the safety of their helicopter.
As a journalist (it was tempting to put air quotations around Journalist but taking cheap shots isn't worth it), his decision to make crashes the core element of an article named "We need to talk about the Cabri" isn't accidental. The entire article reads more along the lines of "look at all these Cabri crashes I can list off - meanwhile, look at how safe the R22 is".
Read the article with a decent eye for deceiving writing and it's clear to see he never intended to use the article for a positive or constructive purpose - rather he was given a platform to share his own personal views (albeit in a subtle way) and that he did, while dressing it up as an article for aviation safety.
*If you disagree with me, remember this is the internet and you can always ignore my point of view.
He opens with saying that he has no "petty vendetta" against the Cabri, rather "my questions stem from an interest in aviation safety". If this were truly the case, he shouldn't have spent about half a page listing in unnecessary detail the repetitive crash-after-crash theme. The same point could have been raised with "of these 30 crashes, an overwhelming trend is loss of directional control, often attributed or related to pilot unfamiliarity with Fenestron control". Spending more than half of the article talking about repetitive crashes relating to the fenestron, then subtly inserting the sentence "Guimbal has altered a few things on the helicopter - warning lights and so forth - but pilots keep having the same accident" subconsciously rigs an unsuspecting reader to think the Cabri's design is flawed and that Guimbal should change it but are sitting idle, not caring about the safety of their helicopter.
As a journalist (it was tempting to put air quotations around Journalist but taking cheap shots isn't worth it), his decision to make crashes the core element of an article named "We need to talk about the Cabri" isn't accidental. The entire article reads more along the lines of "look at all these Cabri crashes I can list off - meanwhile, look at how safe the R22 is".
Read the article with a decent eye for deceiving writing and it's clear to see he never intended to use the article for a positive or constructive purpose - rather he was given a platform to share his own personal views (albeit in a subtle way) and that he did, while dressing it up as an article for aviation safety.
*If you disagree with me, remember this is the internet and you can always ignore my point of view.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 850
Likes: 0
From: USA
All helicopters are "flawed". That is to say they have design compromises that will bite you if you don't understand them. It is becoming pretty clear that the fenestron on the Cabri is one of those design compromises. Just like the performance limits of the tail rotor on the 206 are a compromise. Or the main rotor system on any Robinson. Or the Squirrely nature of the Squirrel on landing. Or, or, or...
Everyone has their favorite helicopter they like to defend. Everyone has their favorite helicopter they like to hate. Fly and maintain any of them, from Mosquito homebuilt to an MI-26, within manufacturer's limits and you will be just fine. The trick is doing just that. Some are harder than others to do that with. I've got a whopping 3 hours on feneston equipped helicopters between a G2 and an EC130, all after I supposedly knew how to fly helicopters. I found yaw control in the hover to be quite a bit more difficult compared to my first 10 minutes in an R22 before I even knew how to fly one. On the other hand, it still takes all my concentration to auto a Robinson. The first time I auto'd a G2 the entire thing was a yawn. Different helicopters, different challenges.
Bottom line: the truth hurts if it messes with your vision of reality.
Everyone has their favorite helicopter they like to defend. Everyone has their favorite helicopter they like to hate. Fly and maintain any of them, from Mosquito homebuilt to an MI-26, within manufacturer's limits and you will be just fine. The trick is doing just that. Some are harder than others to do that with. I've got a whopping 3 hours on feneston equipped helicopters between a G2 and an EC130, all after I supposedly knew how to fly helicopters. I found yaw control in the hover to be quite a bit more difficult compared to my first 10 minutes in an R22 before I even knew how to fly one. On the other hand, it still takes all my concentration to auto a Robinson. The first time I auto'd a G2 the entire thing was a yawn. Different helicopters, different challenges.
Bottom line: the truth hurts if it messes with your vision of reality.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: South of France
Losses of yaw control on helicopters
The reproach that can be made about the article in "Pilot" is not what is said of the Cabri, but that it is presented as a problem of the Cabri only. A small look in accident reports databases.(and you could expect that from a journalist) shows that it is a global problem on small heicopters.
Helicopters involved in loss of yaw control accidents found in accident reports databases (2010-2016)
Helicopters involved in loss of yaw control accidents found in accident reports databases (2010-2016)