Guimbal Cabri G2
We were recently quoted EUR 320k (which is around GBP 250k, or USD 400k at today's exchange rates.
For that price, or a little more, you can get an 1980's MD500D with over 10,000 hrs TTSN and 'average' component times. In a different thread somebody was saying that he or she is running the MD500 at direct operating costs no higher than a R22. Is that realistic?
For that price, or a little more, you can get an 1980's MD500D with over 10,000 hrs TTSN and 'average' component times. In a different thread somebody was saying that he or she is running the MD500 at direct operating costs no higher than a R22. Is that realistic?
Hot
I have a couple of 500's, never owned an R22 but loads of H300's all I can say I would be gob smacked if H500D was cheaper but having said that it depends upon how you compare.
EG fuel in Uk avgas is about £ 1.50 a litre and jet about .55p per litre
therefore R22 uses about £ 52.50 worth of fuel an hour MD 500 uses £ 62 per hour. But if you now ask about fuel cost per mile that changes things
In 1 hour R22 covers about 80nm 500 about 130 nm. Therefore for R22 to cover 130 nm fuel cost is £ 85 so you can argue that the turbine is cheaper on fuel !!!
Obviously comparing hourly costs is easy but per seat mile may be better as the MD wins due to its greater speed so you use less fuel less component times etc etc. Plus you have no time life components unlike Robinson or EC Airbus products
Basically you can make figures say anything you want to !!!
I have a couple of 500's, never owned an R22 but loads of H300's all I can say I would be gob smacked if H500D was cheaper but having said that it depends upon how you compare.
EG fuel in Uk avgas is about £ 1.50 a litre and jet about .55p per litre
therefore R22 uses about £ 52.50 worth of fuel an hour MD 500 uses £ 62 per hour. But if you now ask about fuel cost per mile that changes things
In 1 hour R22 covers about 80nm 500 about 130 nm. Therefore for R22 to cover 130 nm fuel cost is £ 85 so you can argue that the turbine is cheaper on fuel !!!
Obviously comparing hourly costs is easy but per seat mile may be better as the MD wins due to its greater speed so you use less fuel less component times etc etc. Plus you have no time life components unlike Robinson or EC Airbus products
Basically you can make figures say anything you want to !!!
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Hughes500
Hello Hughes500,
The EC120 has for exemple a Service Life Limit of 20 000 h for the Main Rotor Blades and 9 500 hours for the Tail Rotor Hub.
You don't have any SLL for these parts on your 500 ?
.
Hughes500
Plus you have no time life components unlike Robinson or EC Airbus products
The EC120 has for exemple a Service Life Limit of 20 000 h for the Main Rotor Blades and 9 500 hours for the Tail Rotor Hub.
You don't have any SLL for these parts on your 500 ?
.
Last edited by HeliHenri; 12th Jul 2015 at 16:55.
@HeliHenri
> Plus you have no time life components unlike Robinson or EC Airbus products
I suppose Hughes500 was talking about calendar life time limited components.
@Hughes500
I agree. It is a bit of a draw on fuel cost. If one compared to the R44, the fuel flow is a bit higher than on the R22, but so it the cruise speed, and of course cost per seat mile gets better with four seats.
Then again, in other countries the price difference between JetA1 and Avgas may not be so pronounced. In my country, Avgas is only 50% more expensive per litre than Avgas (JetA1 is about the same 55p, and Avgas 85p only).
So if fuel is much of a muchness, component, rebuild and maintenance cost as well as depreciation could make the difference.
> I have a couple of 500's
Many private pilots don't do more than 50 hrs per year. I would like to compare 12-year maintenance and rebuild cost of a Robinson product to the maintenance cost of a MD500, assuming that both do 600 flying hours over the same period.
For this to look favourable for the MD, I presume it's all about starting out with a MD500 with good component times, i.e., no major components that have <600 hrs time left. In your experience, is there much other maintenance expenses than those related to replacing time-ex components?
> Plus you have no time life components unlike Robinson or EC Airbus products
I suppose Hughes500 was talking about calendar life time limited components.
@Hughes500
I agree. It is a bit of a draw on fuel cost. If one compared to the R44, the fuel flow is a bit higher than on the R22, but so it the cruise speed, and of course cost per seat mile gets better with four seats.
Then again, in other countries the price difference between JetA1 and Avgas may not be so pronounced. In my country, Avgas is only 50% more expensive per litre than Avgas (JetA1 is about the same 55p, and Avgas 85p only).
So if fuel is much of a muchness, component, rebuild and maintenance cost as well as depreciation could make the difference.
> I have a couple of 500's
Many private pilots don't do more than 50 hrs per year. I would like to compare 12-year maintenance and rebuild cost of a Robinson product to the maintenance cost of a MD500, assuming that both do 600 flying hours over the same period.
For this to look favourable for the MD, I presume it's all about starting out with a MD500 with good component times, i.e., no major components that have <600 hrs time left. In your experience, is there much other maintenance expenses than those related to replacing time-ex components?
Last edited by Hot and Hi; 30th Dec 2014 at 17:29. Reason: Quoted text didn't show clearly
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Are there any reports from Cabri operators of unscheduled maintenance costs?
With no exposed pitch links on the tail rootor, clutch operation drawn from engine oil pressure etc, some of the weaker items on R22s are removed. I have been told a Cabri is significantly cheaper to operate than an R22 but the unscheduled maintenance is always going to be telling.
Any actual information?
With no exposed pitch links on the tail rootor, clutch operation drawn from engine oil pressure etc, some of the weaker items on R22s are removed. I have been told a Cabri is significantly cheaper to operate than an R22 but the unscheduled maintenance is always going to be telling.
Any actual information?
Hot
To answer your question is like asking how long is a piece of string !
For example
My 500's have to work for a living, one has come back from Sweden where it has done 900 hours chain sawing in 2 years. That is hard work on a machine constantly pulling near max cont power at below translational lift speed so tail rotor gearbox's take a hammering !
My other does about 350 hours a year of which 75 % is load lifting
So not really a fair comparision against a private machine To give you an idea I have had the D model for 18 years. Most expensive annual including rectification work £ 24k best £ 9K. This year have had more than a few unscheduled maintenance
1. FCU gave up £ 3500
2. Tail rotor gearbox making metal £ 4500
3. Blades debonding £2500 although blade repair under warranty
4. Compressor impellor cracked £ 14k
But this is on a machine with 6000 hours and built in 1981
Henri I mean calendar items eg Airbus 12 year G check or Robinson 12 year rebuild or Bell 24 month TT straps Although Kaflex driveshafts now have a 12 year o/h life where as they were on condition
Would love to see EC blades with 20000 hours on them !!!!
To give you an example
MR trx 4000 hours TR trx 4400 hours
MR blades 3530, TR blades 5400 hours MR head o/h 2770 hours with
swashplate MR dampers 6000, Tailboom 10000,
Big difference between an MD and a Robinson is the residual value.
D model purchased 1999 for £ 175k turned down £ 350k for it 6 months ago
Most 500's keep their value really really well, in fact I have owned 9 of them and have sold everyone for considerably more than I paid for it.
To answer your question is like asking how long is a piece of string !
For example
My 500's have to work for a living, one has come back from Sweden where it has done 900 hours chain sawing in 2 years. That is hard work on a machine constantly pulling near max cont power at below translational lift speed so tail rotor gearbox's take a hammering !
My other does about 350 hours a year of which 75 % is load lifting
So not really a fair comparision against a private machine To give you an idea I have had the D model for 18 years. Most expensive annual including rectification work £ 24k best £ 9K. This year have had more than a few unscheduled maintenance
1. FCU gave up £ 3500
2. Tail rotor gearbox making metal £ 4500
3. Blades debonding £2500 although blade repair under warranty
4. Compressor impellor cracked £ 14k
But this is on a machine with 6000 hours and built in 1981
Henri I mean calendar items eg Airbus 12 year G check or Robinson 12 year rebuild or Bell 24 month TT straps Although Kaflex driveshafts now have a 12 year o/h life where as they were on condition
Would love to see EC blades with 20000 hours on them !!!!
To give you an example
MR trx 4000 hours TR trx 4400 hours
MR blades 3530, TR blades 5400 hours MR head o/h 2770 hours with
swashplate MR dampers 6000, Tailboom 10000,
Big difference between an MD and a Robinson is the residual value.
D model purchased 1999 for £ 175k turned down £ 350k for it 6 months ago
Most 500's keep their value really really well, in fact I have owned 9 of them and have sold everyone for considerably more than I paid for it.
.
The number of Cabri in the US has just doubled last week.
Second (
) G2 has been registred as N371PA to Precision Helicopters.
they fly the first one too and will have a total of five in the future.
.
The number of Cabri in the US has just doubled last week.
Second (
) G2 has been registred as N371PA to Precision Helicopters.they fly the first one too and will have a total of five in the future.
.
Last edited by HeliHenri; 13th Jul 2015 at 18:07.
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Two new Cabri have arrived in NZ (s/n 1081 and 1082), they're not registred yet.
There are now 13 G2 in Kiwiland.
.
Two new Cabri have arrived in NZ (s/n 1081 and 1082), they're not registred yet.
There are now 13 G2 in Kiwiland.
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Last edited by HeliHenri; 13th Jul 2015 at 18:07.
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Some figures
2014 : 27 produced, 63 sold.
Fleet leaders with more than 4200 hours.
FAA certified with two delivered plus ten ordered.
And about the US, the G2 will be at the HAI next month with a price in $ about 25% lower than last year.
.
Some figures
2014 : 27 produced, 63 sold.
Fleet leaders with more than 4200 hours.
FAA certified with two delivered plus ten ordered.
And about the US, the G2 will be at the HAI next month with a price in $ about 25% lower than last year.
.
Last edited by HeliHenri; 13th Jul 2015 at 07:10.
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Hello CRAN, The G2 should cost around 290 000 € depending of the equipments. The price in dollar is decreasing because of the exchange rate.
A dealer will be much more precise.
.
Hello CRAN, The G2 should cost around 290 000 € depending of the equipments. The price in dollar is decreasing because of the exchange rate.
A dealer will be much more precise.
.
Last edited by HeliHenri; 13th Jul 2015 at 07:10.
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Hélicoptères Guimbal Announce FAA Approval for Cabri G2
(Courtesy of HeliHub)
Following its best year of operation ever, and opening an even more promising year 2015, Helicopteres Guimbal has just received the final certification of the Cabri G2 helicopter from the FAA.
This success is the result of a smooth 16-month cooperation with the different specialists of the Federal Agency, including Operations, Flight tests and Documentation.
According to Bruno Guimbal, HG president & CEO, “the FAA certification opens one of the largest markets in the world, at the moment when our helicopter has proved itself the most efficient and safest piston helicopter for professional training, light aerial work and personal use. Two Cabri G2 have been already delivered in the USA, 10 are in order, and we enjoy a tremendous interest now from many potential customers”.
According to Olivier Gamard, head of Guimbal certification & airworthiness, “The process with the FAA was straightforward and raised no technical issues. The EASA certification is a perfect base for FAA validation due to similar requirements and reciprocal agreements, but different experiences and different compliance methods made some work necessary. The FAA also requested to carry out again some flight testing in order to confirm the remarkable flight characteristics of the Cabri G2″.
The Cabri G2 is now certified and flying in two-third of the world, including all Europe, New-Zealand, Australia, China, Hong-Kong, Vietnam, South Africa, the USA and affiliated countries.
The 100th Cabri G2 is now in the final assembly line in Aix-en-Provence. The whole fleet has logged approximately 50.000 flight hours with no injury, and the first helicopters have now flown about 4.200 hours and counting.
In 2014 Helicopteres Guimbal produced 27 helicopters for 9.2 M€, an increase of 62% over 2013, with a similar profit around 8%. The staff grew from 36 to 70 in this period of time.
63 firm orders were signed and the production is reaching one per week.
Expected growth in 2015 is above 60% again.
Following its best year of operation ever, and opening an even more promising year 2015, Helicopteres Guimbal has just received the final certification of the Cabri G2 helicopter from the FAA.
This success is the result of a smooth 16-month cooperation with the different specialists of the Federal Agency, including Operations, Flight tests and Documentation.
According to Bruno Guimbal, HG president & CEO, “the FAA certification opens one of the largest markets in the world, at the moment when our helicopter has proved itself the most efficient and safest piston helicopter for professional training, light aerial work and personal use. Two Cabri G2 have been already delivered in the USA, 10 are in order, and we enjoy a tremendous interest now from many potential customers”.
According to Olivier Gamard, head of Guimbal certification & airworthiness, “The process with the FAA was straightforward and raised no technical issues. The EASA certification is a perfect base for FAA validation due to similar requirements and reciprocal agreements, but different experiences and different compliance methods made some work necessary. The FAA also requested to carry out again some flight testing in order to confirm the remarkable flight characteristics of the Cabri G2″.
The Cabri G2 is now certified and flying in two-third of the world, including all Europe, New-Zealand, Australia, China, Hong-Kong, Vietnam, South Africa, the USA and affiliated countries.
The 100th Cabri G2 is now in the final assembly line in Aix-en-Provence. The whole fleet has logged approximately 50.000 flight hours with no injury, and the first helicopters have now flown about 4.200 hours and counting.
In 2014 Helicopteres Guimbal produced 27 helicopters for 9.2 M€, an increase of 62% over 2013, with a similar profit around 8%. The staff grew from 36 to 70 in this period of time.
63 firm orders were signed and the production is reaching one per week.
Expected growth in 2015 is above 60% again.
.
Some news from UK
Multiflight at Leeds-Bradford has received the ninth G2 delivered in the country.
Flying Pig Helicopters at Elstree Aerodrome should received theirs soon.
And three more G2 are expected to arrive within two months.
.
Some news from UK
Multiflight at Leeds-Bradford has received the ninth G2 delivered in the country.
Flying Pig Helicopters at Elstree Aerodrome should received theirs soon.
And three more G2 are expected to arrive within two months.
.
Last edited by HeliHenri; 13th Jul 2015 at 07:09.
UK may not catch up NZ by the end of this year, but the gap will be a lot narrower, particularly if you only count ex-factory deliveries as NZ bought a couple of pre-owned examples. UK continue the catching up, with the tenth Cabri now handed over to Helicentre Aviation this week