Guimbal Cabri G2
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Typing error, the RR300 is one of the three options.
Lycoming doesn't produce diesel engine but will support by agrement the SMA engine in the field with parts and services.
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Typing error, the RR300 is one of the three options.
Lycoming doesn't produce diesel engine but will support by agrement the SMA engine in the field with parts and services.
.
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I've just been invited to a BBQ and 'try our new aircraft' opportunity so I hope to get a chance to fly the G2 Sunday 22nd. It seems that EBG will be getting one a Redhill at the end of the year.
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I've just been invited to a BBQ and 'try our new aircraft' opportunity so I hope to get a chance to fly the G2 Sunday 22nd.
Where's that then John ....I'm quite partial to a fly-in burger ??
Where's that then John ....I'm quite partial to a fly-in burger ??
WoW Machine
Where's that then John ....I'm quite partial to a fly-in burger ??
(fur = salad vegetable in Nhula lingo) 
Would Love to take Her for a REAL fly
Hmmmm I wonder how the fenestron would behave at service ceiling? 
Anyone know what percentage Her anti-torque system consumes out of 100% power?
Happy Landings
VF
Last edited by Vertical Freedom; 22nd Sep 2013 at 04:23.
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So, had a flight and a burger (in that order - always thinking "weight & Balance"). She is in truth a beauty.
I would have preferred fuel injection to remove potential carb-ice but the automated electric system is very interesting. Electronic ignition plus magneto means that it is both safe and also fuel-efficient (compared to the R22).
Comfort levels were good (5ft 11 and 90 kg) and the cabin is pretty spacious for 2. Instruments are excellent, and I particularly liked the LED landing light which meant this machine is day / night VFR without any additional lighting kit. Pop-out float kit available, I am told.
I like the belt tensioning approach - move the engine by engine-oil hydraulic pressure. Very quick engagement / disengagement. Placing the engine "backwards" means that you can get to the oil filler to check / fill.
In hover & flight, if you can fly an EC120 this machine is a dream. If anything you need to be a little quicker with "right foot" (than an EC120)due to "instant" torque change from a petrol engine but the 2,500rpm tail rotor is effective; I understand that the machine has been tested in winds to 50knt, though it was a still day today. It is very stable, though. In forward flight - like the EC120 - the tail fan provides little / no anti-torque as the fin takes over. If you are used to US machines then some familiarisation with fenestron tail will be part of the conversion training.
I de-selected the force trim (hat up 2-sec, then left 2-sec) and found the machine much better to fly after that (for me). No hydraulics, so a little heavier than the EC120 / R44 but no problem. She is very, very stable for a small machine. Rate climb and cruise speed are good, noise levels are low and the visibility is fantastic.
I had a go a at "waltzing" the machine along the airfield (torque-spin and travel) and found her to be eminently controllable, with less fore-aft cyclic input than required for the same manoeuver in the EC120. I get the impression that if you do lose yaw control for real the rate of rotation is likely to be very high though and a "chop throttle" might be the most appropriate response, given the rotor momentum (higher ratio to weight than a Jet Ranger)!
Not a problem for me, but coming in to the HLS, be aware that you should be ahead of the machine in yaw control because the contribution of the tail fin reduces as airspeed drops. If you allow left-yaw to develop (inadequate right foot) then as you slow the problem must get worse. If you don't contain the yaw adequately then when the angle of attack on the tail gets beyond (20 degrees?) there will be sudden loss of tail effect which might lead to a torque-induced spin. Stay ahead of things and there is no problem - the tail fan is adequate if you are flying the machine right.
Safety is very much improved, both in terms of crash-resistant seats / cabin / skids but also fantastic rotor energy (carbon blades, but tip weights) for such a small machine. I would be happy to fly this (not actually prepared to fly an R22 myself, though an R44 is fine).
John
EDITED TO ADD: It seems there will be a G2 available for flight training at Redhill from November. I will probably go for a type rating and then I can have some fun.
I would have preferred fuel injection to remove potential carb-ice but the automated electric system is very interesting. Electronic ignition plus magneto means that it is both safe and also fuel-efficient (compared to the R22).
Comfort levels were good (5ft 11 and 90 kg) and the cabin is pretty spacious for 2. Instruments are excellent, and I particularly liked the LED landing light which meant this machine is day / night VFR without any additional lighting kit. Pop-out float kit available, I am told.
I like the belt tensioning approach - move the engine by engine-oil hydraulic pressure. Very quick engagement / disengagement. Placing the engine "backwards" means that you can get to the oil filler to check / fill.
In hover & flight, if you can fly an EC120 this machine is a dream. If anything you need to be a little quicker with "right foot" (than an EC120)due to "instant" torque change from a petrol engine but the 2,500rpm tail rotor is effective; I understand that the machine has been tested in winds to 50knt, though it was a still day today. It is very stable, though. In forward flight - like the EC120 - the tail fan provides little / no anti-torque as the fin takes over. If you are used to US machines then some familiarisation with fenestron tail will be part of the conversion training.
I de-selected the force trim (hat up 2-sec, then left 2-sec) and found the machine much better to fly after that (for me). No hydraulics, so a little heavier than the EC120 / R44 but no problem. She is very, very stable for a small machine. Rate climb and cruise speed are good, noise levels are low and the visibility is fantastic.
I had a go a at "waltzing" the machine along the airfield (torque-spin and travel) and found her to be eminently controllable, with less fore-aft cyclic input than required for the same manoeuver in the EC120. I get the impression that if you do lose yaw control for real the rate of rotation is likely to be very high though and a "chop throttle" might be the most appropriate response, given the rotor momentum (higher ratio to weight than a Jet Ranger)!
Not a problem for me, but coming in to the HLS, be aware that you should be ahead of the machine in yaw control because the contribution of the tail fin reduces as airspeed drops. If you allow left-yaw to develop (inadequate right foot) then as you slow the problem must get worse. If you don't contain the yaw adequately then when the angle of attack on the tail gets beyond (20 degrees?) there will be sudden loss of tail effect which might lead to a torque-induced spin. Stay ahead of things and there is no problem - the tail fan is adequate if you are flying the machine right.
Safety is very much improved, both in terms of crash-resistant seats / cabin / skids but also fantastic rotor energy (carbon blades, but tip weights) for such a small machine. I would be happy to fly this (not actually prepared to fly an R22 myself, though an R44 is fine).
John
EDITED TO ADD: It seems there will be a G2 available for flight training at Redhill from November. I will probably go for a type rating and then I can have some fun.
Last edited by John R81; 22nd Sep 2013 at 20:47.
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John,
A very succinct appraisal of the Cabri although I had to admit that your comment about de-selecting the cyclic trim sent me scurrying for my POH in case I had missed something.
Rule of thumb for the trim when reducing power and speed on the approach is 2 secs down and 2 secs right. Your movement of 2 secs up and 2 secs left re-set the approx trim condition for forward flight in climb or cruise which does indeed make life easier.
Just made a rough and ready look at G-INFO and could not see a new R22 registered here for at least five years which makes the UK sales of the Cabri all the more remarkable.
In addition to the huge leap in safety offered by the Cabri it is not only more enjoyable to fly but in the longer term will cost less to operate. True, insurance may be more as it is related to hull value but there is no 12 year general overhaul requirement except for the Lycoming engine. At 2,200 hours only the two gearboxes and engine need to be overhauled. As service history builds it is the intention of the factory to increase the gearbox TBOs to 4,400 hours giving a further reduction in operating costs.
A very succinct appraisal of the Cabri although I had to admit that your comment about de-selecting the cyclic trim sent me scurrying for my POH in case I had missed something.
Rule of thumb for the trim when reducing power and speed on the approach is 2 secs down and 2 secs right. Your movement of 2 secs up and 2 secs left re-set the approx trim condition for forward flight in climb or cruise which does indeed make life easier.
Just made a rough and ready look at G-INFO and could not see a new R22 registered here for at least five years which makes the UK sales of the Cabri all the more remarkable.
In addition to the huge leap in safety offered by the Cabri it is not only more enjoyable to fly but in the longer term will cost less to operate. True, insurance may be more as it is related to hull value but there is no 12 year general overhaul requirement except for the Lycoming engine. At 2,200 hours only the two gearboxes and engine need to be overhauled. As service history builds it is the intention of the factory to increase the gearbox TBOs to 4,400 hours giving a further reduction in operating costs.
.
Hello John,
The wise chalmondleigh had warmed you saturday : "Once you have tried the Cabri there is no going back"
You own and fly both R44 and EC120 (happy man), yet you're going to get a Cabri QT and fly her just for fun, that's a nice compliment to her !
Enjoy your future flights
.
Hello John,
The wise chalmondleigh had warmed you saturday : "Once you have tried the Cabri there is no going back"
You own and fly both R44 and EC120 (happy man), yet you're going to get a Cabri QT and fly her just for fun, that's a nice compliment to her !
Enjoy your future flights
.
Last edited by HeliHenri; 7th Feb 2014 at 12:09.
First Flight
Got to fly the Cabri on Friday and absolutely loved it. A thoroughly modern airframe, smooth, responsive and enjoyable to fly.
Well done to Bruno and his team, its a lovely aircraft and a treat to fly.
Bring on the G4/G5!
CRAN
Well done to Bruno and his team, its a lovely aircraft and a treat to fly.
Bring on the G4/G5!
CRAN
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CRAN,
Interesting you should say that -- the HeliDATA show daily at Helitech suggested that Guimbal is already working on a four-seater, "probably" powered by a diesel or turbine.
I/C
Interesting you should say that -- the HeliDATA show daily at Helitech suggested that Guimbal is already working on a four-seater, "probably" powered by a diesel or turbine.
I/C
Ian,
From what I have heard it is essentially a certainty and either option would be well received provided the price/performance was acceptable.
Most territories around the world (except US) are hungry for a diesel helicopter in this segment, but the engines are all still that bit too heavy really. Turbine power behind such a machine would be fantastic from a performance and soundtrack perspective, but it will be expensive and won't sell in the numbers that the R44 was pre the financial crisis.
My guess is that we will end up with a Lycoming powered G4 that will be a little more expensive than an R44 RII.
I have no doubt that such a machine would be as well received as the G2 and should be very pretty too.
Exciting years ahead!
CRAN
From what I have heard it is essentially a certainty and either option would be well received provided the price/performance was acceptable.
Most territories around the world (except US) are hungry for a diesel helicopter in this segment, but the engines are all still that bit too heavy really. Turbine power behind such a machine would be fantastic from a performance and soundtrack perspective, but it will be expensive and won't sell in the numbers that the R44 was pre the financial crisis.
My guess is that we will end up with a Lycoming powered G4 that will be a little more expensive than an R44 RII.
I have no doubt that such a machine would be as well received as the G2 and should be very pretty too.
Exciting years ahead!
CRAN
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Thanks for the corrections to my text (not changed, as the later posts clarify).
HeliHenry - making money whilst having fun. Although I do fly them, my machines work for a living.
HeliHenry - making money whilst having fun. Although I do fly them, my machines work for a living.
Last edited by John R81; 2nd Oct 2013 at 10:44.
Hi,
evenso the bird is only intended to fly VFR, I would rather prefer the standard T-layout for the "vital" instruments.
Still, if you stay VFR and fly in nice weather, it shouldn´t be a problem - but a trained scan could be helpful sometimes....
Greetings Flying Bull
evenso the bird is only intended to fly VFR, I would rather prefer the standard T-layout for the "vital" instruments.
Still, if you stay VFR and fly in nice weather, it shouldn´t be a problem - but a trained scan could be helpful sometimes....
Greetings Flying Bull
I believe the plan is for FAA certification, but no timescale. Short term important job is to ramp up the production rate and find suitably qualified workforce to assist that. Guimbal is not short on orders!
Might be a while if you consider the product liability issue in the USA.
The "elephant in the room".
Cant see it happening too soon.
The "elephant in the room".
Cant see it happening too soon.
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In another part of my business life, I have an advisory connection to business brining another European aviation company to the US, working on FAA certification.
As I understand it, in theory there is an agreement between Europe and the US that type certificates should be a check the boxes paperwork exercise as they are supposed to recognize each others certifications, though in reality lots of politicking and lobbying in the background to get through the process, though the wheels turn slowly....
Though I am confident there are many here for more suitably positioned to comment!
As I understand it, in theory there is an agreement between Europe and the US that type certificates should be a check the boxes paperwork exercise as they are supposed to recognize each others certifications, though in reality lots of politicking and lobbying in the background to get through the process, though the wheels turn slowly....
Though I am confident there are many here for more suitably positioned to comment!
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Maybe it's just a question of not growing too rapidly.
As far as I understand Guimbal is very busy and the lead time for a factory new G2 is quite a while. If Bruno opened up a new market in the US right now he might displease potential customers in Europe or elsewhere.
Grant him some time to increase the production line in France and I'm pretty sure that soon or later we'll see one or the other G2 in the US.
As far as I understand Guimbal is very busy and the lead time for a factory new G2 is quite a while. If Bruno opened up a new market in the US right now he might displease potential customers in Europe or elsewhere.
Grant him some time to increase the production line in France and I'm pretty sure that soon or later we'll see one or the other G2 in the US.