Guimbal Cabri G2
2-Seat Helicopter Prices
The going has been difficult with many customers ordering just one to begin with.
“The market is not so much price sensitive as trust sensitive,” concluded Guimbal.
When the R22 was introduced in 1979 it cost $40,000 if you use one of the online inflation calculators that comes out at around $131,000 in todays money and at that kind of price level they sold 400 units per year. It's now priced at $285,000 and they sell around 40 of them a year.
The R22 started in the realm of the expensive car buyer and is now much, much more expensive which would seem to make sense in terms of the sales volume drop. There is of course the fact that the R44 came along which is a much better machine for a private owner, if you can afford it.
Is the above quote merely a facet of the fact that now only very wealthy private individuals can afford to purchase helicopters, in which case the safety and performance are much more important that the cost. At the 1979 relative price level anyone who could afford a fancy car could afford an R22, surely this is the crux of the matter.
It would be very interesting to see if 2-seater sales levels of 400 units per year would return with a machine at around the $150,000 mark.
Obviously the cost of developing and certifying a machine are far higher these days, so its not really fair to compare the R22 and the G2, this is merely a discussion what effect escalating costs are having on the light helicopter market in general.
Looking forward to the G4!
CRAN
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The second Precision Helicopters' G2 exposed at the HAI is starting today a road trip / road show from Orlando to Portland (is new home).
The stops should be Macon, Mobile, Baton rouge, Houston, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Boise and Big Bend.
.
The second Precision Helicopters' G2 exposed at the HAI is starting today a road trip / road show from Orlando to Portland (is new home).
The stops should be Macon, Mobile, Baton rouge, Houston, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Boise and Big Bend.
.
Last edited by HeliHenri; 12th Jul 2015 at 17:08.
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CRAN & Freewheel
Your comments regarding historical R22 pricing prompted me to dig out the original invoice for my first R22 which was invoiced to me in December 1988 at $103,550 ex works.
The price list, dated August 1987, that came with the sales material shows the list price at $91,850 to which I added the auxiliary fuel tank, heater, removable dual controls, fire extinguisher, vertical compass, millibar altimeter, transponder, and VOR.
From $40,00 to almost $92,000 in eight years.
The same sales literature also listed the base price of the 300c at $132,000 and the 280F at $159,400 for comparison.
Your comments regarding historical R22 pricing prompted me to dig out the original invoice for my first R22 which was invoiced to me in December 1988 at $103,550 ex works.
The price list, dated August 1987, that came with the sales material shows the list price at $91,850 to which I added the auxiliary fuel tank, heater, removable dual controls, fire extinguisher, vertical compass, millibar altimeter, transponder, and VOR.
From $40,00 to almost $92,000 in eight years.
The same sales literature also listed the base price of the 300c at $132,000 and the 280F at $159,400 for comparison.
Costs
I can't help thinking that we are stuck in a vicious circle. The high prices, limit the sales volumes, which in turn increases the cost of new products by forcing new manufactures to base the amertisation of R&D and setup costs on smaller numbers of machines.
I wonder if as a community of helicopter buyers we could act as a buying group and work more closely with willing manufacturers to secure a lower price if we could collectively order say 1000 units over the next five years?
CRAN
I wonder if as a community of helicopter buyers we could act as a buying group and work more closely with willing manufacturers to secure a lower price if we could collectively order say 1000 units over the next five years?
CRAN
@CRAN: Great plan. Good luck with finding 1000 buyers. Also keep in mind you might have to wait 15 years until delivery of the 1000th unit. Have fun with the paperwork... 
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Given the very long model production-life, amortisation would seem to be a bit of a red-herring....surely a return on development capital would be more appropriate, when most production-runs are going to be around 50 years for a proper design like the Cabri.
A low margin will mean better sales, which ,in turn, will give a better profit volume.....It's the old TESCO*maxim....pile it high, sell it cheap.
Mr. Cohen was happy to make a penny on a bag of sugar and sell a thousand.....whilst his competitor made 5 pence a bag and only sold a hundred.
Yes, I know it's a huge simplification, but the basic principle holds good.
Mr. Guimbal is obtaining a realistic return for his endeavours and seems to have a very healthy order-book.....his standing costs (buildings, plant,machinery) are already covered to ramp -up production to keep his factory buzzing , say 16 hours a day, will (assuming a present 8-hour day)
will double (almost) his labour and materials costs, ditto with fuel, Power etc.
THEREFORE , THE COST PER UNIT WILL TUMBLE.
If this is in part passed on in a more attractive price, the potential owner-base will expand exponentially.
Unlike other "budget" helicopters, the Cabri is well-designed, inherently "right", with no cost-cutting in critical areas....the result, as we are seeing, is a long-life, reliable machine which is not going to "calendar" out of time nor , it seems, suffer main-blade failures or other critical -component recalls for expensive rectification.
If I were a pilot, looking for a small ,modern 2-seat machine, I would buy one in a heartbeat.
I must confess the lack of warranty, back when it was initially marketed, seemed to me to be a fatal ,basic , marketing error.
I was wrong....better qualified people than me, evaluated the product, paid their cash, and have proved that they and Mr Guimbal have sound judgement.
It is great to see a business like this making a terrific sucsess of a "right first time" product.
A low margin will mean better sales, which ,in turn, will give a better profit volume.....It's the old TESCO*maxim....pile it high, sell it cheap.
Mr. Cohen was happy to make a penny on a bag of sugar and sell a thousand.....whilst his competitor made 5 pence a bag and only sold a hundred.
Yes, I know it's a huge simplification, but the basic principle holds good.
Mr. Guimbal is obtaining a realistic return for his endeavours and seems to have a very healthy order-book.....his standing costs (buildings, plant,machinery) are already covered to ramp -up production to keep his factory buzzing , say 16 hours a day, will (assuming a present 8-hour day)
will double (almost) his labour and materials costs, ditto with fuel, Power etc.
THEREFORE , THE COST PER UNIT WILL TUMBLE.
If this is in part passed on in a more attractive price, the potential owner-base will expand exponentially.
Unlike other "budget" helicopters, the Cabri is well-designed, inherently "right", with no cost-cutting in critical areas....the result, as we are seeing, is a long-life, reliable machine which is not going to "calendar" out of time nor , it seems, suffer main-blade failures or other critical -component recalls for expensive rectification.
If I were a pilot, looking for a small ,modern 2-seat machine, I would buy one in a heartbeat.
I must confess the lack of warranty, back when it was initially marketed, seemed to me to be a fatal ,basic , marketing error.
I was wrong....better qualified people than me, evaluated the product, paid their cash, and have proved that they and Mr Guimbal have sound judgement.
It is great to see a business like this making a terrific sucsess of a "right first time" product.
You are quite obviously a very loyal Cabri salesman, HeliHenri, but yep, I'm deadly serious: New JV gives Eurocopter foothold in UAV market - 6/14/2005 - Flight Global
Well, I'm sorry to tell you that you're deadly wrong now but I must admit that you could have been right a long time ago.
You're refering to a ten years old article and if you read it till the end, you'll find "The next step would be a preliminary procurement contract with a target in-service date of 2008" !!!!.
Vertivison, the joint venture still exist but if you check, you'll find that it's turnover was last year 0 euro.
So the French army and navy don't pay the bills.
I don't think that Bruno Guimbal worked so hard for so many years (including the CS27 certification) just to make an UAV.
P.S : thanks for the compliment but I'm not a Guimbal salesman.
You're refering to a ten years old article and if you read it till the end, you'll find "The next step would be a preliminary procurement contract with a target in-service date of 2008" !!!!.
Vertivison, the joint venture still exist but if you check, you'll find that it's turnover was last year 0 euro.
So the French army and navy don't pay the bills.
I don't think that Bruno Guimbal worked so hard for so many years (including the CS27 certification) just to make an UAV.
P.S : thanks for the compliment but I'm not a Guimbal salesman.
HH strikes me as an industry insider in EU helicopter aviation but never as an employee or salesman for Guimbal.
One doesn't need to be to be an enthusiastic supporter of a fine product.
If this was all about the UAV then why on *earth* would Guimbal have bothered with the expensive ball-ache that is certification?
One doesn't need to be to be an enthusiastic supporter of a fine product.
If this was all about the UAV then why on *earth* would Guimbal have bothered with the expensive ball-ache that is certification?
Bravo73
Well, I must say that I'm a bit disappointed now, you could have said :
"The quality of your statements on this thread would seen to indicate otherwise"
Thanks krypton_john
Your multiple posts on this thread would seem to indicate otherwise.
"The quality of your statements on this thread would seen to indicate otherwise"
Thanks krypton_john
Last edited by HeliHenri; 27th Mar 2015 at 18:39.
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Hi folks,
remind me of a similar story while I was a client at bristow academy florida: I went to see to chief pilot and with couples documentations and points about how sweet the cabri must be as a trainer. Just to let them know that a new trainer was on its way ( was times ago like 2007 and no EASA certif yet let alone FAA one) and might be interesting bet for them... which he understand I think since he suggested that Mr Guimbal should come along as a guest on their HAI Stand for 08...
then the chief pilot look at me and says: re you working for them or something?
Jaw dropped, I spontaneously replied: f**k me no way I am not working for them (even thought I wished!) but I just thought that Mr Guimbal deserved a worldwide publicity for its insane work in particular during the 2000 era doing all on its own for certifying such an aircraft within the european aviation regultion...
might have cost me some disgraced among the company potentials employers for saying "f**k me"... but hey, excuse my french but I am french though!
Guilty too then!
davy
remind me of a similar story while I was a client at bristow academy florida: I went to see to chief pilot and with couples documentations and points about how sweet the cabri must be as a trainer. Just to let them know that a new trainer was on its way ( was times ago like 2007 and no EASA certif yet let alone FAA one) and might be interesting bet for them... which he understand I think since he suggested that Mr Guimbal should come along as a guest on their HAI Stand for 08...
then the chief pilot look at me and says: re you working for them or something?
Jaw dropped, I spontaneously replied: f**k me no way I am not working for them (even thought I wished!) but I just thought that Mr Guimbal deserved a worldwide publicity for its insane work in particular during the 2000 era doing all on its own for certifying such an aircraft within the european aviation regultion...
might have cost me some disgraced among the company potentials employers for saying "f**k me"... but hey, excuse my french but I am french though!
Guilty too then!
davy
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Fixed/Utility Floats and A/C for G2?
Does anyone know of or has anyone heard anything about fixed/utility floats for the Cabri G2? I'm aware emergency pop out floats are an option just wondering about the fixed type. Also wondering about the Air Conditioning option which was once indicated on the website as "available ??" whereas now it indicates "contact for availability"?
Last edited by SeaMac; 15th May 2015 at 18:18.
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just wondering about the fixed type.
It does not exist on the Cabri. The automatic inflatable system only is available.