Guimbal Cabri G2
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: North Sea
Age: 51
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Helicentre Aviation Academy have become a centre of excellence for the Cabri G2
I understand it's a good machine for training and take nothing away from the type but haven't the Germans got loads of the things, all owned in their own colours?
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If you prefer small operators (that's your choice) flying in versatile environment, there a some operators in Switzerland, France, Sweden or Czech Republic who know very well the G2 for few years now.
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If you prefer small operators (that's your choice) flying in versatile environment, there a some operators in Switzerland, France, Sweden or Czech Republic who know very well the G2 for few years now.
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Last edited by HeliHenri; 30th Jul 2014 at 12:04.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: USA
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Recognize?
Anyone recognize this pilot hanging out at AirVenture this week?
This is and other pictures from the first couple days of AirVenture 2014:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...7089197&type=1
This is and other pictures from the first couple days of AirVenture 2014:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...7089197&type=1
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Interesting interview of Bruno about the Chinese certification of the Cabri :
Aviation Today :: Guimbal Reveals Details About Chinese Certification Process??
(...) "“The first main step in the process was the validation of the STC we have for the engine,” Guimbal told Rotor & Wing, as the manufacturer designed an electronic ignition for the Lycoming O360. Then came the validation of the type certificate itself. The third step was an operational evaluation. This means training programs were assessed, both for pilots and maintenance technicians. Finally, the first two aircraft destined to China received individual airworthiness certificates." (...)
(...) "A CAAC certification obviously opens doors nationally but other possibilities exist, Guimbal discovered. Local permits to fly can be delivered in China’s provinces. “The country is not so centralized,” Guimbal said." (...)
(...) "Guimbal expressed pride about having gone through the certification process independently, without having formed a local joint venture for production. Asked about intellectual property threats, such as reverse-engineering, he did not appear worried despite the cultural gap between Western countries and China. He emphasized that drawing the plans of a part is one thing but manufacturing it is another." (...)
(...) "The CAAC did not require any specific test. “We showed them exhaustive certification test results,” Guimbal said. He noted China’s Avgas 100LL fuel standard is slightly different from that defined by ASTM. Using such a fuel is not officially validated for the Cabri yet – in fact, it is still unsure whether Helicopteres Guimbal or the CAAC is responsible for the validation. Guimbal made it clear that, as the engine can burn unleaded fuel, the Chinese standard is not a problem. “Standards should be harmonized eventually,” he added." (...)
(...)"Despite slow implementation of the promised low airspace deregulation, Guimbal believes in China’s potential. “A Chinese official told me that the government’s plan is to have three helicopters per district... and they have 2,650 districts,” he said, reckoning that this translates into well over 20,000 pilots needing to be trained. (...)
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Interesting interview of Bruno about the Chinese certification of the Cabri :
Aviation Today :: Guimbal Reveals Details About Chinese Certification Process??
(...) "“The first main step in the process was the validation of the STC we have for the engine,” Guimbal told Rotor & Wing, as the manufacturer designed an electronic ignition for the Lycoming O360. Then came the validation of the type certificate itself. The third step was an operational evaluation. This means training programs were assessed, both for pilots and maintenance technicians. Finally, the first two aircraft destined to China received individual airworthiness certificates." (...)
(...) "A CAAC certification obviously opens doors nationally but other possibilities exist, Guimbal discovered. Local permits to fly can be delivered in China’s provinces. “The country is not so centralized,” Guimbal said." (...)
(...) "Guimbal expressed pride about having gone through the certification process independently, without having formed a local joint venture for production. Asked about intellectual property threats, such as reverse-engineering, he did not appear worried despite the cultural gap between Western countries and China. He emphasized that drawing the plans of a part is one thing but manufacturing it is another." (...)
(...) "The CAAC did not require any specific test. “We showed them exhaustive certification test results,” Guimbal said. He noted China’s Avgas 100LL fuel standard is slightly different from that defined by ASTM. Using such a fuel is not officially validated for the Cabri yet – in fact, it is still unsure whether Helicopteres Guimbal or the CAAC is responsible for the validation. Guimbal made it clear that, as the engine can burn unleaded fuel, the Chinese standard is not a problem. “Standards should be harmonized eventually,” he added." (...)
(...)"Despite slow implementation of the promised low airspace deregulation, Guimbal believes in China’s potential. “A Chinese official told me that the government’s plan is to have three helicopters per district... and they have 2,650 districts,” he said, reckoning that this translates into well over 20,000 pilots needing to be trained. (...)
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Last edited by HeliHenri; 12th Jul 2015 at 17:31.
AVGAS and MOGAS (and mix thereof) vs. Cabri G2
This document talks about a placard (regarding gauge inacurracies) to be installed when fuel type used for gauge calibration and fuel type actually in tank differ:
Proposed Temporary Deviation on fuel gauging system of Hélicoptères Guimbal Cabri G2 when using automotive unleaded gasoline | EASA
I wasn't aware that the cabri G2 engine runs on
- AVGAS 100LL or
- AVGAS UL91 or
- Automotive unleaded(!) gasoline according to EN228, albeit w/ RON >= 98
Is the Cabri G2 alerady approved by EASA to used Automotive unleaded (RON>= 98)?
Would be great to get away with 1.40€/l instead of 2.40€/l
That fact the HG applies for being allowed to counter the gauge inaccuracy from mixed fuel type usage by palacarding, insinuates certification. Their website still speaks of AVGAS 100L only.
edit:
apparently one doesn't need an STC when Lycoming themselves give a go:
"With the Lycoming engine model approvals, the EASA SIB immediately allows ASTM D 7547
Grade UL 91 use on European Union based aircraft such as the
Cessna 152....Diamond DA40 and DA42-L360; Helicoptères Guimbal’s Cabri G2;..."
EASA approves 31 more Lycoming engines for UL91 fuel | Helihub - the Helicopter Industry Data Source
Proposed Temporary Deviation on fuel gauging system of Hélicoptères Guimbal Cabri G2 when using automotive unleaded gasoline | EASA
I wasn't aware that the cabri G2 engine runs on
- AVGAS 100LL or
- AVGAS UL91 or
- Automotive unleaded(!) gasoline according to EN228, albeit w/ RON >= 98
Is the Cabri G2 alerady approved by EASA to used Automotive unleaded (RON>= 98)?
Would be great to get away with 1.40€/l instead of 2.40€/l
That fact the HG applies for being allowed to counter the gauge inaccuracy from mixed fuel type usage by palacarding, insinuates certification. Their website still speaks of AVGAS 100L only.
edit:
apparently one doesn't need an STC when Lycoming themselves give a go:
"With the Lycoming engine model approvals, the EASA SIB immediately allows ASTM D 7547
Grade UL 91 use on European Union based aircraft such as the
Cessna 152....Diamond DA40 and DA42-L360; Helicoptères Guimbal’s Cabri G2;..."
EASA approves 31 more Lycoming engines for UL91 fuel | Helihub - the Helicopter Industry Data Source
Last edited by Reely340; 1st Oct 2014 at 09:22.
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The Cabri is the first helicopter certified to use unleaded gasoline.
This certification required a long and sophisticated series of flight and ground tests.
But the result is certification for two types of unleaded fuels :
- The new Avgas UL91
-Unleaded 98 octane premium automotive gasoline.
The performance of the helicopter remains unaffected and there are no pratical limitations.
All fuels could be mixed in any ratio and the engine warranty is unaffected.
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The Cabri is the first helicopter certified to use unleaded gasoline.
This certification required a long and sophisticated series of flight and ground tests.
But the result is certification for two types of unleaded fuels :
- The new Avgas UL91
-Unleaded 98 octane premium automotive gasoline.
The performance of the helicopter remains unaffected and there are no pratical limitations.
All fuels could be mixed in any ratio and the engine warranty is unaffected.
.
Last edited by HeliHenri; 1st Oct 2014 at 10:57.
But the result is certification for two types of unleaded fuels :
- The new Avgas UL91
- Unleaded 98 octane premium automotive gasoline.
- The new Avgas UL91
- Unleaded 98 octane premium automotive gasoline.
The very type of fuel Lycoming claims is not precisely enough "controlled",
subject to too many seasonal/regional/legal variations.
http://www.lycoming.com/Portals/0/Ou...els_Part_2.pdf
They heavily advocate someone ought develop UL100, so their "whole fleet" of workhorses can migrate from 100LL
Lycoming > OUR INNOVATION > Fuels
That means one can actually get 98 RON pump gas (w/o any Ethanol,
Lycoming says) into some canisters, pour them into the tank and
fly away safely and airworthy in a Cabri G2!
THAT is a key selling point for GA pilots, for sure!
(And FTOs should love it, as they save on mineral oil tax, too, here in .at)
Maybe my eyesight starts to lack, but I find that very important property
is not at all reflected in the Cabri G2 homepage, which still speaks of 100LL
only. Time to catch up, dear content managers.
edit: on second thougth nobody seems to be aware of that, all name just 100LL:
Die Technische Daten der Guimbal Cabri G2*- Heli Aviation GmbH
Technical Specifications | Cabri G2 now available through Pacific Aircraft Sales, New Zealand?s exclusive distributor.
Hélicoptères Guimbal
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Saving a few Cents per Liter won't save you enough to pay for a new engine, an expansive experience the guy next door just made. Especially in Europe with all that biological stuff in the auto gas it's not a good idea to fly in to your local gas station.
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Saving a few Cents per Liter won't save you enough to pay for a new engine, an expansive experience the guy next door just made
But apparently (Lycoming is right) it is very difficult to find out how much Ethanol is being added to pump gas of 95RON or 98RON today..
So if the engine decides to throw bits out & you are using EU pump fuel who PAYS
But assuming
- me being a non commercial opeartor and
- purchasing the engine from some european (Lycoming) dealer and
- saving any fuel bill of EASA and Lycoming specified, enthanol-free, +93AKI autofuel I used
the "fault leading to engine disintegration must have been there ab initio"
hence consumer warranty ought kick in during the first 24 months since overhaul.
I'm well aware that w/o logging HUMS or gapless VEMD protocol I might have a hard time addressing potential accusation of rough abuse. But maybe Lycoming, in denying warranty, would have to prove beyond doubt that I was at fault.
But I fear you guys are right, in reality it's always us who pay:
FTO chief send back a young HIO-360-D1A that never ran fine since last factory overhaul, didn't stop to gulp oil and never started to produce the same power as the sister machine. He mentioned overseas lawyers, I yet have to ask him how he settled with Lycomming, cost wise.