JAA IR Courses (including Converting FAA IR to JAA IR (Merged)

[smithers930]

Can anybody give me details of IR Course providers and costings within the UK
And peoples opinions in any.

Many Thanks

[paco]

Helicopter Services 01494 513166

Bristows Dunno the number

Police Aviation Services Dunno the number

probably others

Phil

[Flingingwings]

Bristows @ Norwich. Single engine IR on B206 about 28K
Specialist aviation services @ Gloucester. Multi engine about 39K inc ME type rating
Bond @ Gloucester. No idea of price

Helicopter Services @ Booker. Multi engine IR on As355 approx 36K inc type rating.

Think you'll find most are fully booked for quite some months. In some cases well into middle of next year.

Comments either way tend not to be too helpful. Best advice is speak to them all, pay them a visit, and then decide.

[smithers930]

OK so I have seen the prices, is it worth the extra money and doing it with Bond and get the EC135 Rating or has anyone heard about Helicopter Services at High Wycombe which would give me a Twin Squirrel rating. I have heard it is the hardest thing to pass so which is the best for pass rates , Ok Bond is more expensive but seem to be more well known.
Any comments would be greatly recieved.

[Flingingwings]

Phone any of the schools. Most are fully booked till early to mid next year. So there are plenty of people with the cash. Know where mine came from, but it is staggeringly expensive.

Perhaps the best question you can answer is where you want your flying to go. Having answered that it may provide the EC135/AS355 answer.

As for schools. Phone them. All have websites. See how busy they are, ask about pass rates, and for that matter any other questions you may have.

If you wait for views about schools from here you'll probbaly get good and bad views regarding all of them, as we are all different and have different expectations

I can only comment about one provider. Whom I'd recommend in a heart beat - that said thats only my opinion

Visit those you are seriously considering, have a look around, ask questions, check course availability, and then decide which one YOU like.

It is a hard course, but it's also passable.

Good luck

[BaronG]

Originally Posted by thecontroller

i am baffled who on earth has the money for a JAA IR? where does it come from?
after spending £40k+ on getting the CPL/FI rating...

This is a problem. If no one paid for the IR, the companies would have to. However, people are paying for the IR.

I guess it's something like this. You've got 200 hours CPL, but couldn't or didn't want to Instruct, and can't afford to build hours any other way. How can you compete with the ex-instructor, ex-mil or spare-time flyer who has a 1000 hours?

Answer, blow a lot (but less than paying for 800 hours) on an IR. You may have to wait 6 months to start but it's quicker than instructing for a year or more to get the hours.

So at the door of the North Sea Three you've got - ex FI, 1000 hours no (JAA) IR, CPL who gained the hours pleasure flying with no (JAA) IR or 230 hour CPL with JAA IR.

230 hour guy costs a type conversion and is ready to go. The others cost a lot more and are a training risk if they fail the IR.

I wonder if there were a "union of student pilots" who basically agreed to stop self funded IRs, if there would still be enough work for the all the CPLs with no IR (assuming they were all to get sponsored IRs of course)?

BG

[212man]

You might also like to consider that if you do a 50 hour course of which 40 is in an FNPT/FTD it might be nice if the FTD was the same as the aircraft!

Bear in mind also, that for an SPH ME type rating (i.e. what you'd do if you chose the 135/355 route) you need 70 hours P1; this may be a problem if fresh off a CPL course. You also need this for an MPH ME type but it can be substituted with a P2 only qualification. (This SPH 70 hours requirement seems to have changed in FCL-2 amendment 4, just out, but obviously LASORS do not show this and you would need to check with the CAA I guess)

[smithers930]

Who is that provider just out of interest Flinging Wings,

And what are peoples views on Twin Squirrel or EC155 for commercial work. Just feel a twin squirrel is more widely used?
I am Ex mil with 1000hrs turbine , do I need to get an IR in the first place?
What are peoples feelings on how the market is now as I believe that peoples views who are out there doing the job are a hundred times better than research on the net etc.

Many thanks for anyones help

[helicopter-redeye]

Any IR(H) providers known outside of the UK but stilll in JAA-land?

[Bravo73]

Originally Posted by thecontroller

so the North Sea employers dont give a toss that you have > 1000 hours?

No, and why should they? They don't owe YOU anything.

You get 'numpties' with 200hrs. You get numpties with 10,000hrs.

2000hrs as a Flight Instructor in the States has little bearing on what a NS FO has to do...

[212man]

smithers930, its's the EC-135 (being used for the IR course) not the 155. I'd have thought that was quite a useful type for an ex-mil type to have; given the fact that the course provider has the largest fleet of 135s in the UK and they are used in a role well suited to an ex-mil pilot.

[BaronG]

Originally Posted by thecontroller

so the North Sea employers dont give a toss that you have > 1000 hours? they are happy to take some 200 hour numpty
this industry is f**ked up

Well f**ked up might be a bit strong but yes, min. hours guys have been hired with an IR in preference to 1000 hour civvy guys without a JAA IR (having an FAA IR doesn't seem to make a difference...).

I think that piston time (instruction basically) isn't considered very worthwhile by a lot of these companies plus without a JAA IR, they consider it a risk that you may not be up to the job, so they don't want to pay. They're probably right.

It would help to have a conditional job offer before laying down more cash but that doesn't seem to be a common thing either...At least one company seems reluctant to let you do the psychometric + sim tests without an IR (understandable of course!) so they can't offer you a job.

But my overriding feeling from this is that it depends who you talk to and when you catch them. Right time + right place = job (as always). The HR departments aren't able to understand the issues - presumably they aren't pilots themselves - they just look for ticks in the right boxes - JAA CPL + IR = interview (probably at the moment anyway), anything else = no interview.

The only people who can make decisions on the basis of experience are the Chief Pilots and equivalents, who are snowed under, since they're one person doing their normal "day job" and getting bugged by hopefuls on the phone and email all day...

I guess this means the low hours guys with the right ticks get through, higher hours but with missing tick in JAA IR box get nowhere through the official HR system.

BG

[BaronG]

Originally Posted by helicopter-redeye

Any IR(H) providers known outside of the UK but stilll in JAA-land?

Air Alpha (Denmark) and Bilund Air Service (Denmark) are 2 that I know do them and can accomodate English speakers. Air Alpha had a sim problem - it may be resolved by now, I don't know.

Bilund was looking like a 10 month wait as I remember.

there must be others around Europe but outside the UK and Ireland, the Scandinavian countries are most likely to accomodate English speakers...

BG

[smithers930]

So basically Bond is a good option !!!!

Is that the general opinion?

[Lightning_Boy]

I'm booked in with PAS for November, came highly recommended! AS355 type and IR (conversion from FAA) for 15,000UKP + VAT

[MINself]

I Did my ME IR training with PAS last year by recommendation and I wasn't disappointed, first rate and as I passed I had no complaints.

The FNPT 2 is a realistic training aid and the saves you time in a "real aircraft" therefore money!

[smithers930]

What kind of price is PAS, I know I sound lazy but if you have been there then its first hand knowledge, and thier website please?

[Lightning_Boy]

http://www.specialist-aviation.co.uk/

Dont know the cost of initial IR training, but may be worth your while, going to the US and doing your IR in a piston popper, getting your faa ir then converting it to JAA. Could save a lot of $$$$$

LB

[MD900 Explorer]

UK IR

So without trying to hijack the thread, is there a general concencus that pilots should pay for their own IR or apply to a company and expect the firm to pay for them....

Is this the way the industry is divided or are there going to be problems with pilots getting their own IR, versus the people who seem to think they are owed one.

Read an interesting editors foreward in Vertical Magazine recently, about how the editor was shocked about how many low time pilots were angry and frustrated about not getting a job and how much the industry owed them, vs the point of how to help yourself as a low time pilot etc...

I think this pays a vital role in the way of the future....

MD

Awaiting flak

[MINself]

Smithers,

As a QSP and as long as the last military IR you held was Green then the cost should be around the £12,500 mark. This info is from last year so it may have changed but included the AS355 hire for training and test.

Lightning_boy has a point about the cost, however doing your training in the country you intend to fly in cannot be under estimated when your meeting and working with others who already have a job and may be able to advise you on who is recruiting and more importantly people are then meeting you as a potential employee, rather than receiving just another CV.

I do partly agree with MD900 in that if your a low time pilot then an IR may not help you that much to get a job but if you have 1000hrs turbine then that IR may make the difference when applying for a job, depending on the sector of the industry you want to get into.

MS