JAA IR Courses (including Converting FAA IR to JAA IR (Merged)
Being overconfident
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I know of 2 students who recently got their JAA SEIR in Denmark with a British ATPL theory in their pocket - and a Norwegian ..
So the answer must be yes of having British ATPL or IR exam and doing the IR training in Denmark - but do ask the Danish CAA for confermation, the SLV - www.slv.dk ..
- madman
So the answer must be yes of having British ATPL or IR exam and doing the IR training in Denmark - but do ask the Danish CAA for confermation, the SLV - www.slv.dk ..
- madman
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JAA IR Course (including Converting FAA IR to JAA IR)
I am an experienced IR Captain in New York City, I need to get myself over to Europe towards the end of next year to do the JAA IR
Which FTO's in the JAA "community" have an IR programme accepted by the CAA?
I need a school that gets the programme DONE FAST.
A school with a great sim so I can minimise the actual time spent in the aircraft.
Are there FTO's in Europe that have authorised examiners on staff?
I am looking for a one stop shop, no messing about, get in - get it done. I need a really good programme - no messing about as my time is very limited.
Any GOOD suggestions?
Which FTO's in the JAA "community" have an IR programme accepted by the CAA?
I need a school that gets the programme DONE FAST.
A school with a great sim so I can minimise the actual time spent in the aircraft.
Are there FTO's in Europe that have authorised examiners on staff?
I am looking for a one stop shop, no messing about, get in - get it done. I need a really good programme - no messing about as my time is very limited.
Any GOOD suggestions?
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Specialist Aviation Services (the parent company of PAS - Police Aviation Services) came highly recommended when I was asking for guidance, and they were very friendly and helpful when I spoke to them about the mechanics of converting an FAA IR to a JAA one at some stage in the future.
http://www.specialist-aviation.co.uk/
http://www.specialist-aviation.co.uk/
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Specialist Aviation Services - IR from scratch is about £40K (+VAT) inc ME type rating, but for FAA->JAA conversion including (for example) AS355 type conversion someone here was quoted £15K +VAT.
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flyingtonka
I can't speak from personal experience but I've heard Leon Smith and Mike Green at Helicopter Services recommended very often. Helicopter Services is at Wycombe Air Park, near Marlow - a very pleasant area less than 30 miles from London. I know both of them are extremely highly regarded and very experienced.
Leon Smith -
CAA & FAA ATPL(H) I/R
Head of Training, instrument examiner, flight examiner, FIC instructor.
Mike Green -
CAA ATPL(H) I/R.
Basic, FIC & type rating instructor with 12,000 hours of instruction.
Flight Examiner, FI Examiner, Type Rating Examiner & Instrument Instructor Examiner.
As I understand it, to convert an FAA IR(H) to a JAR IR(H) you need to do 15 hours training of which 10 hours can be completed in an approved simulator and 5 hours on the aircraft. (HS have an approved sim.)
That assumes you are already type-rated on the aircraft used for training - they use an AS355 (TwinStar).
Course Cost -
The abbreviated course outlined above costs £7,975 + tax.
(I made an enquiry for someone recently.)
Skills Test Cost -
Varies according to the route chosen by your examiner + CAA Examiner's fee.
They are both examiners but, as I understand it, for an initial issue of an IR, you have to be tested by an examiner from the CAA.
Hope this helps.
FL
Edit -
I notice you're planning this for towards the end of next year. Helicopter Services IR courses are already fully booked until March 2007 so you're wise to plan ahead.
I can't speak from personal experience but I've heard Leon Smith and Mike Green at Helicopter Services recommended very often. Helicopter Services is at Wycombe Air Park, near Marlow - a very pleasant area less than 30 miles from London. I know both of them are extremely highly regarded and very experienced.
Leon Smith -
CAA & FAA ATPL(H) I/R
Head of Training, instrument examiner, flight examiner, FIC instructor.
Mike Green -
CAA ATPL(H) I/R.
Basic, FIC & type rating instructor with 12,000 hours of instruction.
Flight Examiner, FI Examiner, Type Rating Examiner & Instrument Instructor Examiner.
As I understand it, to convert an FAA IR(H) to a JAR IR(H) you need to do 15 hours training of which 10 hours can be completed in an approved simulator and 5 hours on the aircraft. (HS have an approved sim.)
That assumes you are already type-rated on the aircraft used for training - they use an AS355 (TwinStar).
Course Cost -
The abbreviated course outlined above costs £7,975 + tax.
(I made an enquiry for someone recently.)
Skills Test Cost -
Varies according to the route chosen by your examiner + CAA Examiner's fee.
They are both examiners but, as I understand it, for an initial issue of an IR, you have to be tested by an examiner from the CAA.
Hope this helps.
FL
Edit -
I notice you're planning this for towards the end of next year. Helicopter Services IR courses are already fully booked until March 2007 so you're wise to plan ahead.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 23rd Nov 2006 at 16:37.
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It is also getting increasingly difficult to get a CAA staff examiner to do your initial IR test (or any other test that requires a CAA staff inspector). The staff are leaving and not being replaced - the CAA don't basically care whether they create a queue for their services.
FL is right - book and plan ahead
FL is right - book and plan ahead
Better red than ...
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You can go to another JAA country. There is another recent thread on this (last 2 weeks) incl people converting from FAA IR to JAR IR
h-r
h-r
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Further Training Advice
I've completed my ATPL(H) Theory Exams and have been advised to eventually gain my IR to increase the chances of getting a job. Is it feasible to do the FAA IR (Approx £6K) and use these hrs towards my CPL(H), then do a JAA IR conversion Course. (As I understand, it's 15 hrs and about £7-8K to convert). This way, as a PPL(H) with 100hrs TT, I will end up with a Full ATPL(H)....
For Example:
FAA IR - £6K (Incl. 30hrs towards CPL(H))
Extra Hr building to achieve min 155hrs for CPL(H) = £200 x 25hrs = £5K
CPL(H) Course = 30hrs min = £9K
JAA IR Conversion = £8K
Total cost from 100hrs tt to ATPL(H) with CPL & IR = £28K
(The costs are based on doing all flying in the Schweizer 300. I'm not sure if the IR needs to be done in Turbine, Single or Twin)?
All positive comments & advice will be gladly received....
For Example:
FAA IR - £6K (Incl. 30hrs towards CPL(H))
Extra Hr building to achieve min 155hrs for CPL(H) = £200 x 25hrs = £5K
CPL(H) Course = 30hrs min = £9K
JAA IR Conversion = £8K
Total cost from 100hrs tt to ATPL(H) with CPL & IR = £28K
(The costs are based on doing all flying in the Schweizer 300. I'm not sure if the IR needs to be done in Turbine, Single or Twin)?
All positive comments & advice will be gladly received....
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dear oh dear....
firstly, a FAA wil cost more like $9,000 - $11,000
it will cost £20,000 to gain a JAA IR if you hold an FAA IR. provided you get done in the minimum times. yes, £20,000 - because it has to be done in a twin turbine heli
and... what are you going to do for work with an IR and only 200 hours? unless the north sea take you, you are stuffed without an instructor rating
and you don't get a full ATPL(H) licence unless you have 500 hours multicrew time.
and dont forget the 5 hour JAA night rating, the £700 JAA CPL skills test fee, and the £210 licence issue fee.. etc etc....
firstly, a FAA wil cost more like $9,000 - $11,000
it will cost £20,000 to gain a JAA IR if you hold an FAA IR. provided you get done in the minimum times. yes, £20,000 - because it has to be done in a twin turbine heli
and... what are you going to do for work with an IR and only 200 hours? unless the north sea take you, you are stuffed without an instructor rating
and you don't get a full ATPL(H) licence unless you have 500 hours multicrew time.
and dont forget the 5 hour JAA night rating, the £700 JAA CPL skills test fee, and the £210 licence issue fee.. etc etc....
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dear oh dear....
firstly, a FAA wil cost more like $9,000 - $11,000
it will cost £20,000 to gain a JAA IR if you hold an FAA IR. provided you get done in the minimum times. yes, £20,000 - because it has to be done in a twin turbine heli
and... what are you going to do for work with an IR and only 200 hours? unless the north sea take you, you are stuffed without an instructor rating
and you don't get a full ATPL(H) licence unless you have 500 hours multicrew time.
and dont forget the 5 hour JAA night rating, the £700 JAA CPL skills test fee, and the £210 licence issue fee.. etc etc....
firstly, a FAA wil cost more like $9,000 - $11,000
it will cost £20,000 to gain a JAA IR if you hold an FAA IR. provided you get done in the minimum times. yes, £20,000 - because it has to be done in a twin turbine heli
and... what are you going to do for work with an IR and only 200 hours? unless the north sea take you, you are stuffed without an instructor rating
and you don't get a full ATPL(H) licence unless you have 500 hours multicrew time.
and dont forget the 5 hour JAA night rating, the £700 JAA CPL skills test fee, and the £210 licence issue fee.. etc etc....
Thanks for the reality check....I'm obviously way out and a bit confused with the IR costs and it doesn't appear to be cheaper doing the FAA IR first!!
Without splitting hairs, £6-7K is by my calculations about $11k and the night rating would be incorporated in the extra hr building but I get your point!!
How does anyone get a career in this business....
(No need to answer).
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dear oh dear....
firstly, a FAA wil cost more like $9,000 - $11,000
firstly, a FAA wil cost more like $9,000 - $11,000
Kopterman has allowed for £6000
$11,000 is just under £6000.
it will cost £20,000 to gain a JAA IR if you hold an FAA IR. provided you get done in the minimum times. yes, £20,000
That's not what people say here >>> Link
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Maybe TheController is factoring in the ME type rating.
But you certainly don't have to do it in a Twin, the cheaper cost on the other thread (circa 15k) is for an SE IR. There aren't many around since for Public Transport Certification an IFR Heli must have 2 engines. But I know there is one in Norwich and also one in Denmark and another in Sweden. I know some guys going to Denmark and I am considering it too, but only considering at the moment.
It's true that operators have no jobs for SE IR rated pilots, but it will reduce their training cost for you to convert, which will be attractive to them. Plus, you have already proven both your commitment and your ability to pass an IR skill test. Speaking of which, with the FAA IR route, be sure to factor in the JAA SE IR cost if you are going for an ME IR - you cannot convert directly!
Rules for conversion are like-for-like - an ICAO (FAA, etc) SE IR for a JAA SE IR - and that's 15 hrs. You then need to take the test, and pass. You can then convert to an ME IR, but you will also need to include an ME type rating (assuming you don't have one for an IFR ME heli).
More hoops with tighter loops..
But you certainly don't have to do it in a Twin, the cheaper cost on the other thread (circa 15k) is for an SE IR. There aren't many around since for Public Transport Certification an IFR Heli must have 2 engines. But I know there is one in Norwich and also one in Denmark and another in Sweden. I know some guys going to Denmark and I am considering it too, but only considering at the moment.
It's true that operators have no jobs for SE IR rated pilots, but it will reduce their training cost for you to convert, which will be attractive to them. Plus, you have already proven both your commitment and your ability to pass an IR skill test. Speaking of which, with the FAA IR route, be sure to factor in the JAA SE IR cost if you are going for an ME IR - you cannot convert directly!
Rules for conversion are like-for-like - an ICAO (FAA, etc) SE IR for a JAA SE IR - and that's 15 hrs. You then need to take the test, and pass. You can then convert to an ME IR, but you will also need to include an ME type rating (assuming you don't have one for an IFR ME heli).
More hoops with tighter loops..
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All who posted replies
Redeye, Helinut & Lawyer
Thanks for your input, the picture is becoming alot clearer.
Much thanks to you all who have posted with regard to the FAA IR Conversion
Thanks for your input, the picture is becoming alot clearer.
Much thanks to you all who have posted with regard to the FAA IR Conversion
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I'm still looking into doing my IR transition from an FAA IR. I've got information on most places but still looking for some input about Air Alpha & Cab Air.
If anyone has anything good or bad to say about either of these places I would appreciate any input.
Cab Air seems to have a slightly different program than most of the places I've looked at - doing 5 hours on an airplane sim (no helicopter simulator there), the 8 hour type rating on an AS355, 5 hours instrument training on the AS355 and 15 hours instrument training on the R22. Cost is about 19,000 pounds.
Air Alpha does 10 hours in the sim, 5 hours instrument in the bell 222 and the 8 hour multi-engine type rating, again in the bell 222. Cost is about 37,000 euro.
Thanks.
If anyone has anything good or bad to say about either of these places I would appreciate any input.
Cab Air seems to have a slightly different program than most of the places I've looked at - doing 5 hours on an airplane sim (no helicopter simulator there), the 8 hour type rating on an AS355, 5 hours instrument training on the AS355 and 15 hours instrument training on the R22. Cost is about 19,000 pounds.
Air Alpha does 10 hours in the sim, 5 hours instrument in the bell 222 and the 8 hour multi-engine type rating, again in the bell 222. Cost is about 37,000 euro.
Thanks.