Alouette
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Alouette II rotor engagement
I just acquired an Alouette II (SE 3130) and would like some input on the rotor engagement proceedure. In & outs, common errors, etc. I think some of the translation in my Flight Manual is off a bit. Any help would be much appreciated.
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The SE3130 with the Artouste engine has no rotor engagement procedure as far as I recall. The version with the Astazou engine (SA318?) has the ability to engage/disengage rotors with the engine running at idle like the Gazelle. The 3130 doesn't have this feature.
With the Artouste you just switch to 'marche', and it should all happen for you. I have a list of things to hit, tweak, dis-connect..... if it doesn't.
With the Artouste you just switch to 'marche', and it should all happen for you. I have a list of things to hit, tweak, dis-connect..... if it doesn't.
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This one most definitely has the engagement proceedure - same as the SA-318's. I have the Artouste C-6. Idles at 19K after start and runs at 34K after rotor engagement. Post Mod-871 clutch (dry).
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Thanks for finding Alouette threads and tying me in. I was a tech on the 318C in Alaska during the Pipeline construction in the mid 70's and we operated two of them. Reliability was unbelievable -- all we did was daily grease and oil T/R shaft bearings and polish the plexy, aside from the normal 25 & 100 hour inspections. Had a couple of start issues but "manually" tweaked the thermal switch on the start card until we could get a replacement card. The only "failure" I remember was one T/R pc link broke but the pilot did a run-on with no problems other than replacing the skid shoes. What was really nice in that country was the big fuel tank. We hauled many a Jet Ranger tech into the Bush to fix their machines but never had to ask the favor in return. That's probably part of the reason the FAA with a little nudging from Bell wants them off the Standard CoA. Bell didn't like them back then either (when Vought was the distributer). Anyway it's been 35 years and I could use a refresher on rotor engagement technique for those of you that have it a little fresher in your minds--see previous posts.
RG8
That is still winding it's way through the courts in the US I understand.
Expect they still cant explain the paper work or lack of
strange how they let them fly All those years then 
That is still winding it's way through the courts in the US I understand.
Expect they still cant explain the paper work or lack of
strange how they let them fly All those years then
I haven't seen it commented on elsewhere but at the Alouette 3 and Lama service clinic earlier this month Eurocopter announced they were intending to cease production of main rotor blades at the end of 2012. Didn't go down too well with the operators!!!!!
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All the Alouettes have a centrefugal clutch that requires a procedure to ensure rotor engagement without burning out the clutch. I have been off them for many years but I seem to remember ground idle is about 1800 rpm and to engage advance fuel flow to 21000rpm then slowly advance as rotors start turning. I'm a bit wooly on it as Ive been off them since '75/76 but I do have 3130,3150,3160/316B,318C on my licence and Section L A,B and C on my CAA licence. Suggest you get the official procedure, getting a clutch repaired would be a pain in the ass these days.
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Alouette III Rotor Engagement
As I remember it, flew about 3 yrs back, engagement has to be achieved in 35 to 45 seconds (25 to 35 seconds in gusty winds).
Idling rpm should be 16,000 to 19,000 rpm. Advance FFCL slowly and gradually, note eng rpm at which rotor starts to rotate, start stopwatch. This is the ICE (Initial Clutch Engagement). Advance FFCL to get an increase of about 50degC of JPT. To obtain a steady engagement the rotor rpm should be 100 rpm at 15sec and 200rpm at 30sec. If lagging, advance FFCL slightly. Ideally, you should never have to retard FFCL (to avoid fast engagement) so better to increase lesser, crosscheck and advance more if required than advance too much.
See the rate at which rotor rpm is increasing and achieve FCE (Final Clutch Engagement) when the engine and rotor rpm needles mesh.
ICE should be less than 24,000 rpm. Initially it will be lower, about 21,000 for a new clutch and will keep increasing as the clutch wears out. Above 24,000 the clutch needs replacement.
Fast (<35sec) or slow (>45secs) engagement will cause the clutch to overheat and reduce the life in the least and cause it to break up at the worst.
After FCE, advance FFCL gradually, JPT will start reducing, accelerate to full rpm, 33,500 eng and 353 rotor rpm.
Happy flying and happy landings. I was an instructor on Alouette and enjoyed every minute of flying on both the Alouette and the Lama.
Idling rpm should be 16,000 to 19,000 rpm. Advance FFCL slowly and gradually, note eng rpm at which rotor starts to rotate, start stopwatch. This is the ICE (Initial Clutch Engagement). Advance FFCL to get an increase of about 50degC of JPT. To obtain a steady engagement the rotor rpm should be 100 rpm at 15sec and 200rpm at 30sec. If lagging, advance FFCL slightly. Ideally, you should never have to retard FFCL (to avoid fast engagement) so better to increase lesser, crosscheck and advance more if required than advance too much.
See the rate at which rotor rpm is increasing and achieve FCE (Final Clutch Engagement) when the engine and rotor rpm needles mesh.
ICE should be less than 24,000 rpm. Initially it will be lower, about 21,000 for a new clutch and will keep increasing as the clutch wears out. Above 24,000 the clutch needs replacement.
Fast (<35sec) or slow (>45secs) engagement will cause the clutch to overheat and reduce the life in the least and cause it to break up at the worst.
After FCE, advance FFCL gradually, JPT will start reducing, accelerate to full rpm, 33,500 eng and 353 rotor rpm.
Happy flying and happy landings. I was an instructor on Alouette and enjoyed every minute of flying on both the Alouette and the Lama.
Last edited by helibuoy73; 19th Dec 2010 at 13:31. Reason: Correction
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Thanks, that was what I was looking for. You had Alouette III at the top of the post, was that info you sent for the A-III or A-II or are they close enough to have nearly identical parameters? Thanks again.
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Allouette II - clutch
info provided by Helibouy is spot on
I have heard comment that once clutch is engaged allow engine/rotor RPM to continue until the RMP steadies a little higher than the engagement point (say 28000 rpm) then reduce the throttle a little let the RPM drop a tad, then continue to open the throttle to flight idle
another approach I have heard from 'old hands' is to cease advancing the throttle once engagement occurs, let the RPM increase to above the engagement point but just hold at RMP for (say) 10 sec before progressing further.
the explanation is that this helps the shoes in the clutch 'bite' and stops further slipping
it may add something or may be an 'old pilots tale', it seams it would do little harm (dont reduce RMP to the point where the engagement is lost) and anything that extends clucth life has to be good practice
I have been told a clutch will last 1000 hrs if handled carefully, overheating by excessively fast RPM rise burns out the shoes, signs are bubbled paint on Clutch and high initial engagegemnt RPM.
I heave heard of clutched being 6000 Euro, there is limited supply ( I have a few new spares) but clutches, like MR and TR blades anf TR heads are likely to be the life limiting components for the long term for AL2's
I hope this helps
Ian
I have heard comment that once clutch is engaged allow engine/rotor RPM to continue until the RMP steadies a little higher than the engagement point (say 28000 rpm) then reduce the throttle a little let the RPM drop a tad, then continue to open the throttle to flight idle
another approach I have heard from 'old hands' is to cease advancing the throttle once engagement occurs, let the RPM increase to above the engagement point but just hold at RMP for (say) 10 sec before progressing further.
the explanation is that this helps the shoes in the clutch 'bite' and stops further slipping
it may add something or may be an 'old pilots tale', it seams it would do little harm (dont reduce RMP to the point where the engagement is lost) and anything that extends clucth life has to be good practice
I have been told a clutch will last 1000 hrs if handled carefully, overheating by excessively fast RPM rise burns out the shoes, signs are bubbled paint on Clutch and high initial engagegemnt RPM.
I heave heard of clutched being 6000 Euro, there is limited supply ( I have a few new spares) but clutches, like MR and TR blades anf TR heads are likely to be the life limiting components for the long term for AL2's
I hope this helps
Ian
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I agree with your sentiments 100% I don't think there was ever a more reliable helicopter than the SA 318C with the Astazou IIA engine that was ever built! Lots of time with them in the '70s also and other than the (very) odd electrical glitch starting in sub zero temperatures they never failed to amaze me. Everyone who spent any time with one at all in cold weather soon learned the "1 jumps over 2" trick for the cannon plugs on the P-2 switch, start valve etc.
One of the best analogies I ever heard was a half ton truck with rotor blades; reliable and solid! However they did like to drink fuel and the cost of engine overhauls was incredibly expensive. But they never quit and sure gave you a feeling of confidence in your aircraft, go any where, any time.
But still, probably my favorite helicopter of all time.
One of the best analogies I ever heard was a half ton truck with rotor blades; reliable and solid! However they did like to drink fuel and the cost of engine overhauls was incredibly expensive. But they never quit and sure gave you a feeling of confidence in your aircraft, go any where, any time.
But still, probably my favorite helicopter of all time.
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Alouette POH
I have a brand new Alouette POH in English that I purchased from the factory when I was considering buying one.
Please email me if anyone is interested.
Please email me if anyone is interested.
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I have the latest manuals for the SA319B. I have the new hard copy plus I scanned them into a PDF copy. The PDF copy is rather large but I have no problem sharing them, for free!