Banner Towing
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Re: banner towing
I would suggest the answer is yes and no.
Operators are prohibited unless they get a specific approval (exemption) from the authority. No doubt for the appropriate fee.
It enables the authority to:
1. Earn more money
2. Show that they are monitoring safety matters that effect the public closely, and
3. Argue that they are complying with international standards.
Well, anyway, that is how it works in my neck of the woods!
Operators are prohibited unless they get a specific approval (exemption) from the authority. No doubt for the appropriate fee.
It enables the authority to:
1. Earn more money
2. Show that they are monitoring safety matters that effect the public closely, and
3. Argue that they are complying with international standards.
Well, anyway, that is how it works in my neck of the woods!
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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Re: banner towing
OK from the horses mouth. I am posting this with the permission of my employers as I am probably the most current pilot on this operation in the UK. The banner is not towed , it is underslung. Military helicopters do not tow vehicles or artillery pieces, relief helicopters do not tow emergency supplies and we don't tow banners. In effect our operation is no different from any of these other uses-we pick an item up, fly a set course with it and unload it at the end. We get paid for moving it in the same way that any chartered helicopter would be paid for moving a third party's item from A to B even if A and B are the same place.
Currently all banner operations in the UK are carried out under the Cabair AOC and banner lifting exemption. If the aircraft is not a Cabair machine e.g the Cumbernauld job there is a requirement for a Cabair pilot to be on board.
Its been fun watching all the speculation!
Currently all banner operations in the UK are carried out under the Cabair AOC and banner lifting exemption. If the aircraft is not a Cabair machine e.g the Cumbernauld job there is a requirement for a Cabair pilot to be on board.
Its been fun watching all the speculation!
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Re: banner towing
Fair enough vertical hold - and nice of you to give us some facts....but you don't see too many artillery pieces being USL over central London!! 
Wonder why.....??!!! (Yes I know they are heavier and can more of a thump, but a flag landing on the A406 would be interesting!)
Wonder why.....??!!! (Yes I know they are heavier and can more of a thump, but a flag landing on the A406 would be interesting!)
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
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Re: banner towing
AlanM;
The secret is in the CAA exemption and the trials we went through to gain that exemption.
VH
The secret is in the CAA exemption and the trials we went through to gain that exemption.
VH
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Re: banner towing
Fair enough!
As we get to talk to you on 125.62 - is there anything you can let us know about working you? i.e. What speeds can you do? How tight can you turn? What is the heighest/lowest you can fly? I am not sure there is anything on the NSF form to say we can't let something fly below you.... What is the total height of the line and heli?
Cheers
As we get to talk to you on 125.62 - is there anything you can let us know about working you? i.e. What speeds can you do? How tight can you turn? What is the heighest/lowest you can fly? I am not sure there is anything on the NSF form to say we can't let something fly below you.... What is the total height of the line and heli?
Cheers
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Re: banner towing
....... Just hanging around waiting for the sandbag to drop........followed by a large ad for Nationwide which would probably black out most of a dual carriageway width
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Re: banner towing
Ah there it is. I was wondering when Mr Sinic would show up. There is always someone isnt there. The What if factor.... What if the Sand bag comes off. What if the hook lets go. What if you have an engine failure. Well to the unknowing these are all valid questions, but to someone who knows and flys the system all these questions have been answered. Thats how Cabair got the approval in the first place. Just like every other operator in the world that flys the banners. Yes nothing is infalable but I can assure you that every possible safety precaution has been taken when flying this system. So rest easy Headsethair. Unless of coarse you drive on the dual carriageway where the catastophic failure is going to happen???????
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Re: banner towing
Lighten up "Auscan". Are all the humour trees round your way bereft of fruit ?
Sorry - I'll do that in the spelling your computer generates:
Our awl thee huma triz rownd yer weigh berepht of froot ?
Sorry - I'll do that in the spelling your computer generates:
Our awl thee huma triz rownd yer weigh berepht of froot ?
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Re: banner towing
Did a little bit of banner towing during the Indy 300 on the Gold Coast. Typically you tow the banner at around 30-40kts. Anything below that and the banner doesn't fly properly, anything above that and you start to get tears on the trailing edge and the flag will look more like a triangle than a square/rectangle. Typically from the hook to the weights it is around 160ft and depending on conditions you can hook some fairly tight turns but normally you keep them nice and sedate.
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Banner towing
Well I have sat and read the utterly ill informed comments about the banner towing and the systems used for some time now. clearly the majority of people commenting have no idea about banners and operations of them... probably not even pilots and if so should know better... Why do I know. I invented the largest globally system.
No banners in houses. no illegal operations and over 2500 hours of towing to date.
If you want facts on it then ask the people in the know and leave the gossiping to old women in a Bingo hall. I would change gossip to defamation but you hide behind your alias.
Tell you what... here is a wild idea try actually flying and then you will have less time to talk $%*@ about flying.
To those who really flight banners ...blue skies and safe flying.
No banners in houses. no illegal operations and over 2500 hours of towing to date.
If you want facts on it then ask the people in the know and leave the gossiping to old women in a Bingo hall. I would change gossip to defamation but you hide behind your alias.
Tell you what... here is a wild idea try actually flying and then you will have less time to talk $%*@ about flying.
To those who really flight banners ...blue skies and safe flying.
Last edited by Heliport; 23rd Jan 2006 at 14:15.
I'll get me coat......
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Well Skycom,
Here's a radical idea, how about passing on some of your knowledge to those of us who are interested rather than berating fellow professionals for simply trying to find out the right way to do something!
You never know we might be potential customers!
Cheers,
CH
Here's a radical idea, how about passing on some of your knowledge to those of us who are interested rather than berating fellow professionals for simply trying to find out the right way to do something!
You never know we might be potential customers!
Cheers,
CH
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Hi Skycom.
I am curious to know what system you use, either the sand bag weighted version or the tow version ( no weight ).
I would like to know your opinion on both systems. I have flown a few hours here in the states with one system and would like to get some different opinions.
Thanks alot.
I am curious to know what system you use, either the sand bag weighted version or the tow version ( no weight ).
I would like to know your opinion on both systems. I have flown a few hours here in the states with one system and would like to get some different opinions.
Thanks alot.
Last edited by Heliport; 23rd Jan 2006 at 14:16.
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banner towing
Hello hover jocki. I need to clarity something, firstly we only use the bag system . there has already been a crash in the US using the tow idea that no pilot in his right mind would fly. the bag system is whwre the load should be...under you not being dragged behin with a cable a metre from your tail rotor. the only reason this is being allows in the US it History of towing in that way behind planes, they got around the law by impementing iot to helicopters. ther will be more accidents due to the insane adaptation.
Secondly we have spent 6 years and over 900K to get this system up and running so please understand that we protect this due to a huge investment of time and money. something the Catp Hollywood does not grasp as he just wants us to give him all the information on a plate. not too bright that guy!
So to that we shall not be handing out how we do it in anyway...would you!!
Thanks and safe flying
Secondly we have spent 6 years and over 900K to get this system up and running so please understand that we protect this due to a huge investment of time and money. something the Catp Hollywood does not grasp as he just wants us to give him all the information on a plate. not too bright that guy!
So to that we shall not be handing out how we do it in anyway...would you!!
Thanks and safe flying
Join Date: Feb 2001
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I know your system and the company i work for did a run once with it, looked good system.
I understand your reluctancy to talk much about it and and appreciate what you have said.
All the best mate and fly safe with those things.
I understand your reluctancy to talk much about it and and appreciate what you have said.
All the best mate and fly safe with those things.
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It's good to have someone like Skycom or his sort post once in a while.
Useful reminders of how lucky we are in Rotorheads that most people are generally courtous, and that so many people from all over the world are happy to share their expertise and experience.
Heliport
Useful reminders of how lucky we are in Rotorheads that most people are generally courtous, and that so many people from all over the world are happy to share their expertise and experience.
Heliport
Last edited by Heliport; 23rd Jan 2006 at 20:02.
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Hey SKY... 2500 hrs towing banners? HAHAHAHAHAH mate get a real job, boy your a legend. Not exactly rocket science mate.
Dont like what you read ? pull your head in.
Few blokes pick up a 300' strop and a flag for the first time and do all right, i recon they have the right to post what they want whether you like it or not, you have the right and our permission not to comment.
Like Captain.H says, pass it on and maybe you can feel good about helping a few blokes keep safe and have some one they can look up to.
I think your are a fairly smart bloke, you probibly saw some one else flying around with some sand bags and thought hmmm ill patent that idea.
Dont like what you read ? pull your head in.
Few blokes pick up a 300' strop and a flag for the first time and do all right, i recon they have the right to post what they want whether you like it or not, you have the right and our permission not to comment.
Like Captain.H says, pass it on and maybe you can feel good about helping a few blokes keep safe and have some one they can look up to.
I think your are a fairly smart bloke, you probibly saw some one else flying around with some sand bags and thought hmmm ill patent that idea.
I'll get me coat......
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Skycom,
I suggested you pass on some of your knowledge, not divulge the inner workings of your system. No need to resort to personal insults, have I upset you at some stage in the past?
I am simply curious as to how the system works. The version I heard involves the sand being released prior to the flag being dropped in the event of an emergency. I found it hard to believe CASA would permit a flag and the associated shackles, swivel etc, to fall away from the machine over a populated area, fair question I thought! If you have approval to do just that then so be it, as I said I am curious if that is the idea behind the system.
I am currently looking for an operator to fly a banner in Sydney for approximately 30hrs a month. Know anyone who can help me with this!!!
Cheers,
CH
I suggested you pass on some of your knowledge, not divulge the inner workings of your system. No need to resort to personal insults, have I upset you at some stage in the past?
I am simply curious as to how the system works. The version I heard involves the sand being released prior to the flag being dropped in the event of an emergency. I found it hard to believe CASA would permit a flag and the associated shackles, swivel etc, to fall away from the machine over a populated area, fair question I thought! If you have approval to do just that then so be it, as I said I am curious if that is the idea behind the system.
I am currently looking for an operator to fly a banner in Sydney for approximately 30hrs a month. Know anyone who can help me with this!!!
Cheers,
CH