ACE OF THE BASE!
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ACE OF THE BASE!
What makes a great helicopter Pilot? Now there's a topic that I guess most drivers have thought about at one time or another. What is the difference between a good pilot and a great pilot? Is natural ability the ingredient or is training more important? Is being a wizard on the stick more important than having good judgement? Is experience and hours in the book everything? Do Military trained Pilots have an edge? What was so great about the best pilot you ever flew with? It's a general topic I know, but a thought provoking one. Should be lots of differing opinions on this. Hope it gets some interest and that contributors get something out of it! Have a great day!
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I can’t respond to all of the conditions stated in the post as to what makes a good pilot but I can nominate one individual as the best helicopter pilot I ever flew with. His name is David Gershowitz of the USCG. He was not only an excellent pilot but he understood the mechanical intricacies of the helicopters he flew. I was just out of mechanics school with minimal helicopter experience and when I was assigned to my new base they immediately sent me to factory school at Sikorsky on the HO3-S (S-51). When I returned they sent me back for overhaul training on all of the dynamics systems on the same helicopter. When I returned I was fully capable of doing anything on that helicopter. Shortly there after, I was assigned to an icebreaker to maintain a Bell HTL-1 (Model 47). Dave Gershowitz schooled me in all of the routine maintenance and not so routine maintenance. I gained a great deal of respect for him as a person, as a technician and as a pilot. I flew with him on many occasions where we transitioned from VFR to IMC conditions and he brought us through every time even though the helicopter was not equipped for instrument flight. In many of our conversations I discovered that he had been involved in the training of the first helicopter pilots from the UK, the US Army and the US Navy with this training taking place at Floyd Bennett Air station in Brooklyn, New York. With many pilots now claiming 15,000 to 20,000 hours at the controls Dave Gershowitz was the first pilot to gain 1,000 hours PIC in helicopters.
When I served with him he was a Lieutenant and he retired as a Captain. I often thought of why when there was an off base assignment they would team me up with Dave Gershowitz. When I got to know our bigoted Executive officer better I knew the reason. If the helicopter crashed he would get rid of the only Jews on the base.
When I served with him he was a Lieutenant and he retired as a Captain. I often thought of why when there was an off base assignment they would team me up with Dave Gershowitz. When I got to know our bigoted Executive officer better I knew the reason. If the helicopter crashed he would get rid of the only Jews on the base.
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To: B Sousa
It was a statement of fact. If you find it offensive I'll remove it. It has nothing to do with my perceptions of those that disagree with my statements on these threads.
It was a statement of fact. If you find it offensive I'll remove it. It has nothing to do with my perceptions of those that disagree with my statements on these threads.
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I would not have thought that a pilot who flew a VFR Bell 47 into IMC on 'many occasions' was necessarily a good candidate for pilot of the year nominations.
Iconoclast
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To: Out of Balance
On one occasion,we were flying back to our Base in the Lower Peninsula of the State of Michigan. It was quite cold flying over Lake Superior and on occasion we would fly over ice flows which created a very large temperature gradient. In certain cases the humidity in the air over the lake would turn into fog in a split second as the moist air passed over the ice flow. Dave did not intentionally fly into fog it just developed around us and he had the presence of mind to get us out before we crashed into the cliffs on the shoreline. He carried a green card (instrument license).
It also happened several times when we were scouting for the ship to find a crack in the ice.
[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: Lu Zuckerman ]
On one occasion,we were flying back to our Base in the Lower Peninsula of the State of Michigan. It was quite cold flying over Lake Superior and on occasion we would fly over ice flows which created a very large temperature gradient. In certain cases the humidity in the air over the lake would turn into fog in a split second as the moist air passed over the ice flow. Dave did not intentionally fly into fog it just developed around us and he had the presence of mind to get us out before we crashed into the cliffs on the shoreline. He carried a green card (instrument license).
It also happened several times when we were scouting for the ship to find a crack in the ice.
[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: Lu Zuckerman ]
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Lu...I guess you have hit at one of the issues that I was talking about. You speak about a guy that sounds like he was tallented. But, I agree with "Out of Balance". Is a pilot that can fly a 47 in IMC a good pilot or a lucky pilot? One thing I will agree with you on is that he sounded like he knew his aircraft well. That has got to be a good thing!
I once asked a very experienced pilot to give me some advice towards my becomming a good helicopter Pilot. He looked me right in the eye and said," All any pilot has to do is get through the first 1000 hrs without killing themselves...then you are well on your way son!" I thought that was good simple advice. I think the first 1000 is where the learning curve is the steepest and where you develop habits and attitudes....good and bad. I guess you just don't know how ignorant and vulnerable you were until you look back. But then on the other side of the coin, you can still read about 10,000 hour pilots killing themselves because of stupid mistakes! In light of that, is attitude more important than hours?
MaxNg!..Good to see that there is another MAX Ng. Hope things don't get too confusing!..I liked what you said about the best pilots being the ones that collect their pension...That is what its all about at the end of the day....Cheers Max Ng!
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: MAX Ng ]
I once asked a very experienced pilot to give me some advice towards my becomming a good helicopter Pilot. He looked me right in the eye and said," All any pilot has to do is get through the first 1000 hrs without killing themselves...then you are well on your way son!" I thought that was good simple advice. I think the first 1000 is where the learning curve is the steepest and where you develop habits and attitudes....good and bad. I guess you just don't know how ignorant and vulnerable you were until you look back. But then on the other side of the coin, you can still read about 10,000 hour pilots killing themselves because of stupid mistakes! In light of that, is attitude more important than hours?
MaxNg!..Good to see that there is another MAX Ng. Hope things don't get too confusing!..I liked what you said about the best pilots being the ones that collect their pension...That is what its all about at the end of the day....Cheers Max Ng!
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: MAX Ng ]
I am a big fan of Situational Awareness, the problem is that this is as broad a term as possible!! I think it means the ability to hold an accurate mental model of all aspects of the situation around you, the ability to accurately predict the immediate and long term state of the situation, and the ability to slect and execute the appropriate actions to ensure the desired outcome of the situation.
In otherwords: You are not suprised by anything because you had already thought of it, its ramifications, and what to do when it happens!!
I believe the best pilots I know have excellent SA. Why not experience? Well, I think that experience generally increases your ability to accurately assess the situation, to accurately predict the outcomes, to quickly select the appropriate response, and to increase your ability to consider factors that effect you - I.E. experience increases your SA.
For Lu's best pilot, I cannot imagine that I would want to fly a B47 through freezing fog, and, if I knew by experience that it would happen in certain conditions, then I would argue that good SA might demand that I avoid such conditions!! Doesn't mean he was not a good pilot, just that I look for high SA and that doesnt sound like it to me.
In otherwords: You are not suprised by anything because you had already thought of it, its ramifications, and what to do when it happens!!
I believe the best pilots I know have excellent SA. Why not experience? Well, I think that experience generally increases your ability to accurately assess the situation, to accurately predict the outcomes, to quickly select the appropriate response, and to increase your ability to consider factors that effect you - I.E. experience increases your SA.
For Lu's best pilot, I cannot imagine that I would want to fly a B47 through freezing fog, and, if I knew by experience that it would happen in certain conditions, then I would argue that good SA might demand that I avoid such conditions!! Doesn't mean he was not a good pilot, just that I look for high SA and that doesnt sound like it to me.
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To: helmet fire
In an unrelated post one of the pilots was addressing situations where an EMS pilot could refuse to go out on a pick up even if he knew that the person to pick up would not survive if the helicopter was not dispatched. Maybe I’m exaggerating a bit but that pilot can if he deems it necessary refuse to fly. Dave Gershowitz or any other military pilot can not refuse an assignment even if he knows it would place him in harms way. This case the Coast Guard was charged with opening of the shipping lanes on the ice bound Lake Superior. Our helicopter was the eyes of the icebreaker and on occasion this required that we fly in what would be considered to be not the best conditions. It wasn’t freezing fog it was that the temperature gradient caused the moisture in the air to condense out. We never had any problems with ice accretion.
In an unrelated post one of the pilots was addressing situations where an EMS pilot could refuse to go out on a pick up even if he knew that the person to pick up would not survive if the helicopter was not dispatched. Maybe I’m exaggerating a bit but that pilot can if he deems it necessary refuse to fly. Dave Gershowitz or any other military pilot can not refuse an assignment even if he knows it would place him in harms way. This case the Coast Guard was charged with opening of the shipping lanes on the ice bound Lake Superior. Our helicopter was the eyes of the icebreaker and on occasion this required that we fly in what would be considered to be not the best conditions. It wasn’t freezing fog it was that the temperature gradient caused the moisture in the air to condense out. We never had any problems with ice accretion.
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IMHO, the ace of the base was the guy who had the knowledge of the aircraft and mission, the hands to fly the machine adequately, the judgement to say OK or No Way as the situation warranted, and the leadership to be a guide to the newer aviators.
Generally, the ace was a known quantity, a cool guy and a good friend to the bunch. A lucky unit has its instructor or ops officer as the ace.
Also, I really can't believe that Lu could drag himself into dominating this thread, too, with his off the wall stuff, including anti-semitism and 1947 bull s**t. This is getting a bit much.
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: Nick Lappos ]
Generally, the ace was a known quantity, a cool guy and a good friend to the bunch. A lucky unit has its instructor or ops officer as the ace.
Also, I really can't believe that Lu could drag himself into dominating this thread, too, with his off the wall stuff, including anti-semitism and 1947 bull s**t. This is getting a bit much.
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: Nick Lappos ]
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Lu....I think you may be getting a little off the track.....I'm not talking about heroics in times of war....there is probably another forum for that.......I'm talking about the difference between good pilots and great pilots. I think the link between a good pilot and a brave pilot is a weak one. Maybe even a dangerous one. You did however raise the issue of EMS pilots refusing a mission. Would a good pilot risk a life to save a life? And lets not forget about his crew and their families. What would their thoughts on this be do you think? Interesting question. I have worked with some good EMS pilots and "Helmet fire" has a point. Situational awareness was and is something that they all possessed. But you can't plan for every situation.....should a great pilot know every emergency proceedure by heart....or is that a dangerous practice. Ok some emergencies require immediate attention from memory but lets give him an inverter failure (for example only.) Should our "ACE" act immediately and start flicking switches, or would he call for the check list? What would your guy do Lu?
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: MAX Ng ]
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: MAX Ng ]
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Many good qualities mentioned, many I agree to. To be great rather than good, I think you need all the qualities but BALANCED. You must completely understand your own limitations and how they may change day to day.
You must understand your machine, not so you can build it, name every part, or explain the physics of how it flies, but know it so that you can handle any of the surprises it may give you in flight.
Assuming that the cool guy or the natural leader is the best is dangerous. You have to be a leader, but you can be so purely on your piloting merits.
You have to set examples of how to behave in flight and after flight. Preparing for a flight begins with preparing yourself. Partying all night is normally not a good way to prepare yourself.
Too much to cover in a short posting. Basically, I think a balance of all good qualities is a good place to start.
You must understand your machine, not so you can build it, name every part, or explain the physics of how it flies, but know it so that you can handle any of the surprises it may give you in flight.
Assuming that the cool guy or the natural leader is the best is dangerous. You have to be a leader, but you can be so purely on your piloting merits.
You have to set examples of how to behave in flight and after flight. Preparing for a flight begins with preparing yourself. Partying all night is normally not a good way to prepare yourself.
Too much to cover in a short posting. Basically, I think a balance of all good qualities is a good place to start.
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As far as I am concerned, a good pilot is the one who flies his mission and returns to base safely. Now, how would you qualify who is best ? You have very experienced pilots and those with not so much experience. The difference will give the former more confidence, but will not prevent the latter from doing his job.
As MaxNG ( or is it MAXng, or MAXNG ) said, the ones who are taking their pensions have done their job. Good for them.
As MaxNG ( or is it MAXng, or MAXNG ) said, the ones who are taking their pensions have done their job. Good for them.
I agree with most of what has already been said. I believe that flying skills plateau after the first couple of thousand hours (or less), and then it's decision making that separates one pilot from another. I think you can have a pilot who is great in one role and average in another. Lu, I'm not having a go at you, but I think that as a non-pilot you are not in the best position to judge whether someone you flew with a long time ago was a great pilot. For example when I was on pilot's course I thought all my instructors were aviation gods. A few years down the track I realised that some of them were pretty average. Another pilot flying with your friend Dave might have been horrified to find him going intentionally and/or inadvertantly into IMC.
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I think those who are the best at consistently managing risks are the greatest pilots.
To me, this starts from basic training. The pilot who is humble and stays constantly aware of what he knows and does not know, and what he can and cannot do during his training, is already a good risk manager. But training and experience expand the areas of flight that a pilot can safely operate in. A great pilot is always learning since knowledge always reduces risk, as he will not venture into a specialized area of flying without the proper training, and an accurate assessment of his own ability to execute those skills.
I agree a great pilot knows his aircraft, he stays on top of emergency procedures and he stays current. He's aware of when certain skills began to deteriorate, and avoids flights that place serious demands on those skills until he's attained proficiency again. I agree he must have excellent situational awareness while flying in circumstances that conform to his training and experience, and known safe flying practices.
As far as being "heroic" is concerned, I think that it's the rare situation (outside of war) that required a pilot to operate at higher risk levels. It would be rare indeed for another person's life to be "solely" dependent upon you. If that rarity does occur, then putting your own life at risk becomes part of your risk assessment. However the guy injured in a car crash on a foggy night will not benefit from your efforts if you crash the helo on the way to retrieve him, and if you crash the helo on the way to the hospital, well...
I've left many things out that are involved in risk management, but the pilot who does this consistently well will minimize the risk to his and other peoples lives, will nearly always accomplish the mission, will teach others to do the same, and will retire with his pension. This guy is the ace of the base.
(Edited for a typo)
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: Flight Safety ]
To me, this starts from basic training. The pilot who is humble and stays constantly aware of what he knows and does not know, and what he can and cannot do during his training, is already a good risk manager. But training and experience expand the areas of flight that a pilot can safely operate in. A great pilot is always learning since knowledge always reduces risk, as he will not venture into a specialized area of flying without the proper training, and an accurate assessment of his own ability to execute those skills.
I agree a great pilot knows his aircraft, he stays on top of emergency procedures and he stays current. He's aware of when certain skills began to deteriorate, and avoids flights that place serious demands on those skills until he's attained proficiency again. I agree he must have excellent situational awareness while flying in circumstances that conform to his training and experience, and known safe flying practices.
As far as being "heroic" is concerned, I think that it's the rare situation (outside of war) that required a pilot to operate at higher risk levels. It would be rare indeed for another person's life to be "solely" dependent upon you. If that rarity does occur, then putting your own life at risk becomes part of your risk assessment. However the guy injured in a car crash on a foggy night will not benefit from your efforts if you crash the helo on the way to retrieve him, and if you crash the helo on the way to the hospital, well...
I've left many things out that are involved in risk management, but the pilot who does this consistently well will minimize the risk to his and other peoples lives, will nearly always accomplish the mission, will teach others to do the same, and will retire with his pension. This guy is the ace of the base.
(Edited for a typo)
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: Flight Safety ]
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A good pilot is one that brings the sticky buns back for the engineers. (And the aircraft in one piece)
A great pilot is one that manages to spill his tea/coffee/milk/lemonade drink all over the centre console, but on his return, clears it up.
A normal pilot is one that moans constantly about pay/conditions/pensions/share prices/sheep prices/cattle prices/new car prices/how much they are getting over there/my headset don't work/is my aircraft ready yet... etc. etc.
A great pilot is one that manages to spill his tea/coffee/milk/lemonade drink all over the centre console, but on his return, clears it up.
A normal pilot is one that moans constantly about pay/conditions/pensions/share prices/sheep prices/cattle prices/new car prices/how much they are getting over there/my headset don't work/is my aircraft ready yet... etc. etc.
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To: Mark Six
Regarding flying intentionally or inadvertently into IMC neither was the case. The fog would develop in an instant. One second you would be VFR and the next, you would be in fog. Regarding my not being a pilot that is true but the thread is what makes a good pilot. If you and everybody else that has been critical of my post you will find that I stated what I could not respond to and what I could respond to. I nominated Dave Gershowitz because I felt he was the best pilot I had ever flown with. The Coast Guard had a lot of good pilots and I flew with a lot of them. The Coast Guard also had a lot of bad pilots and I had the discomfort of flying with them as well. Regarding what Dave would do under certain situations that would be difficult to ascertain because he died several years ago. I also think that non-flying qualities go into making a good pilot and that is his character. In that area he outshone all of his contemporaries on the base.
To: Nick Lappos
Regarding my comment in my post that you deemed to be anti Semitic the person involved was exactly that. Both Dave and I would joke about the reason for teaming the two of us and in many many occasions when I would talk to my friends in and out of the Coast Guard I would joke about the subject. Accept my comment as a joke in honor of Dave Gershowitz.
Regarding flying intentionally or inadvertently into IMC neither was the case. The fog would develop in an instant. One second you would be VFR and the next, you would be in fog. Regarding my not being a pilot that is true but the thread is what makes a good pilot. If you and everybody else that has been critical of my post you will find that I stated what I could not respond to and what I could respond to. I nominated Dave Gershowitz because I felt he was the best pilot I had ever flown with. The Coast Guard had a lot of good pilots and I flew with a lot of them. The Coast Guard also had a lot of bad pilots and I had the discomfort of flying with them as well. Regarding what Dave would do under certain situations that would be difficult to ascertain because he died several years ago. I also think that non-flying qualities go into making a good pilot and that is his character. In that area he outshone all of his contemporaries on the base.
To: Nick Lappos
Regarding my comment in my post that you deemed to be anti Semitic the person involved was exactly that. Both Dave and I would joke about the reason for teaming the two of us and in many many occasions when I would talk to my friends in and out of the Coast Guard I would joke about the subject. Accept my comment as a joke in honor of Dave Gershowitz.
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I agree with most of what has been writen and it was great to see that engineers have a view too. (Thanks 400 Hertz) (By the way I always try to bring something back for the engineers, even if it is just the Helicopter.) But are great pilots born or can anyone be trained up to be a great pilot? Are there instincts and attitudes that come with the person that make the pilot or could the Military for example mould any rough nut into a great pilot? I guess the question is Training vs Great Character.