Fear of heights?
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Just found this thread,I'm a PPL fixed wing and don't fly much above 2000 feet as I don't need to.
I have had several helicopter flights including a lesson,and did not like going much above 1000 feet.
The reasons for me are that I can see straight down and feel quite vulnerable, as I know there are so many more things to go wrong mechanically than fixed wing.
A commercial fixed wing pilot with helicopter experience ,who feels the same way as me summed it up with these words.
"There ain't no built in redundancy,mate!"
I know it would be pretty catastrophic if a blade came off at 500 feet but it just feels safer at that level.
I'm comforted that some really experienced rotary pilots feel this as well.
The tall building,cliff edge syndrome affect me the same way.
Lister
I have had several helicopter flights including a lesson,and did not like going much above 1000 feet.
The reasons for me are that I can see straight down and feel quite vulnerable, as I know there are so many more things to go wrong mechanically than fixed wing.
A commercial fixed wing pilot with helicopter experience ,who feels the same way as me summed it up with these words.
"There ain't no built in redundancy,mate!"
I know it would be pretty catastrophic if a blade came off at 500 feet but it just feels safer at that level.
I'm comforted that some really experienced rotary pilots feel this as well.
The tall building,cliff edge syndrome affect me the same way.
Lister
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I can't say i have a fear but when i was 8500ft going towards mountains near Big Bear CA, doors off in an R22 i must admit to being a little bit more apprehensive than hopping field to field in the LA basin!!
and no it wasn't to do with the R22!!!
Chester
and no it wasn't to do with the R22!!!
Chester
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This photo was taken last Saturday, somewhere between France and Italy. Not by me, I hasten to add, as I was too busy trying to stop the nose bleed...
Scary as hell to start with (specially when you go from being 400' AGL to 4000' AGL in seconds), but actually really good fun once you get used to it (about 20 mins for me). The perfect weather helped, too.
Scary as hell to start with (specially when you go from being 400' AGL to 4000' AGL in seconds), but actually really good fun once you get used to it (about 20 mins for me). The perfect weather helped, too.
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I get this sitting in the front seat of a Super Cub at 3K and above, surrounded by glass and very narrow. Don't get it in a side by side aircraft. The apparent lack of motion and the perspective make me feel like I'm balanced precariously on the tip of a needle and about to topple off. It's very unpleasant, but gets better with familarity. Good to hear others get it too.
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Height wobblies
I find two distinct areas. I invariably experience a 'queazy' feeling in my lower regions when looking over the edge of a tallish building ... even watching same on TV!
But in 38 years with rotary I've never had the same wobblies. Has to be something in our stone-age make-up. Perhaps from when we scurried up trees to evade the animals!
Any 'trick cyclists' out there who know?
Dennis K
But in 38 years with rotary I've never had the same wobblies. Has to be something in our stone-age make-up. Perhaps from when we scurried up trees to evade the animals!
Any 'trick cyclists' out there who know?
Dennis K
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It's all in the mind. Flying both F/W and Heli's I find it's directly related to perceived groundspeed. Heli's up to 2000' no problem. Hovering at 2400', big problem!
Now with F/W altitude is much less of a problem as we are wizzing along so fast. Right up to FL390 no big deal. But, start going into the 40's and it gets worse. The perception of transit across the ground gets less and less. FL470 over equatorial regions looking down the side of a big CB in turbulance is no fun for anyone! I also found altitude in a high wing cessna worse than a low wing piper. Something to do with the sensation of being suspended rather than sitting on something.
Try walking on a 6" plank balanced on two bricks. Now try it with a 2000' drop underneath you. The same 6" yet only a fool would try it.
Now with F/W altitude is much less of a problem as we are wizzing along so fast. Right up to FL390 no big deal. But, start going into the 40's and it gets worse. The perception of transit across the ground gets less and less. FL470 over equatorial regions looking down the side of a big CB in turbulance is no fun for anyone! I also found altitude in a high wing cessna worse than a low wing piper. Something to do with the sensation of being suspended rather than sitting on something.
Try walking on a 6" plank balanced on two bricks. Now try it with a 2000' drop underneath you. The same 6" yet only a fool would try it.
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10,000 ft
Fabulous picture, pandalet!!!!!
What a super aircraft. 10,000ft, still climbing, 20 MAP, 80kts, 3-up with half fuel. Surely that cannot be a R44?
Good trip, eh?
I don't like being high over water -- very few visual references.
Big Ls
What a super aircraft. 10,000ft, still climbing, 20 MAP, 80kts, 3-up with half fuel. Surely that cannot be a R44?
Good trip, eh?
I don't like being high over water -- very few visual references.
Big Ls
Although often done it, i confess allways feeling uncomfortable over 1500' agl on the helicopter controls.
Took part on several "high altitude" (at least for helicopters) missions, but things don't went better from trip to trip. Allways stiff and nervous.
I don't know why. My most suitable explanation, the most safety feeling for me while flying helicopters is the possibility at least to 80% to be on ground within a very short time, also in the mountains or at night. I'm not an off-shore pilot.
On some flights it was necessary to autorotate from > or = 12,000ft. Parachute jumping, you know without doors and restricted airspeed, a/c without much fuel and no other passengers. Means nearly 8-10min on autorotation. Cutted the engine(s) to idle, but there was no greater descent than max. 1500ft/min possible inside the recommended speed and RPM range. Don't liked it!!! Sailing down and down and down and down...
Took part on several "high altitude" (at least for helicopters
) missions, but things don't went better from trip to trip. Allways stiff and nervous.I don't know why. My most suitable explanation, the most safety feeling for me while flying helicopters is the possibility at least to 80% to be on ground within a very short time, also in the mountains or at night. I'm not an off-shore pilot.
On some flights it was necessary to autorotate from > or = 12,000ft. Parachute jumping, you know without doors and restricted airspeed, a/c without much fuel and no other passengers. Means nearly 8-10min on autorotation. Cutted the engine(s) to idle, but there was no greater descent than max. 1500ft/min possible inside the recommended speed and RPM range. Don't liked it!!! Sailing down and down and down and down...
Reminds me of my first high flight. R22 alpha. Climbed straight up with the instructor, up and up to 10'000' and straight back down to the field in an auto lasting about 5 minutes. Thought nothing of it at the time as I was on the steepest of learning curves with about 9 hours under my belt. Only reason we didnt go higher was the fact we'd both had bacon and egg butties for breakfast, too much tea, and the a/c had no more to give once the rpm drooped with collective tucked well up under my arm pit.
can't get anyone i fly with these days to want to go above 3k. Done FL85 back from offshore in an S76 a couple of times. Can't beat being 'on top'!!
Friend of mine is terrified of heights, won't go on a plane without being virtually comatose due to his fear of flying, but he happily climbed into an R22 with me a couple of times and we got to 5000'. Didn't bother him in the slightest. ??? Weird.
can't get anyone i fly with these days to want to go above 3k. Done FL85 back from offshore in an S76 a couple of times. Can't beat being 'on top'!!
Friend of mine is terrified of heights, won't go on a plane without being virtually comatose due to his fear of flying, but he happily climbed into an R22 with me a couple of times and we got to 5000'. Didn't bother him in the slightest. ??? Weird.
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Me 2
Not a pilot. Been flying offshore since '81 though. Couple of years ago we lost an engine in a 214ST at about 7K. Had a little bobble in attitude as the pilots were trying to get the engine back on-line, made a safe RTB and all seemed fine. Flew out that afternoon on a 76C++ @ 6K altitude and I had a terrible panic attack. The attacks persisted for more than a year till I couldn't take it anymore and had to quit flying. Working land jobs now.
Anything below 2000' was fine but above that the panic sets in. I would cringe inside when I heard the pre-flight announcement we were to fly IFR. I knew the flight was gonna be 5K or better.(usually)
The best way I can describe it is that if we went down at 2K it was gonna be quicker than at 5K. I don't mind dying but I don't wanna die hoarse!
Hate it happened. This is not exactly the way I wanted to end my offshore career.
Anything below 2000' was fine but above that the panic sets in. I would cringe inside when I heard the pre-flight announcement we were to fly IFR. I knew the flight was gonna be 5K or better.(usually)
The best way I can describe it is that if we went down at 2K it was gonna be quicker than at 5K. I don't mind dying but I don't wanna die hoarse!
Hate it happened. This is not exactly the way I wanted to end my offshore career.
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Sounds like the comfort level has something to do with the amount of time spent at that altitude. Instinctive fear is there to keep you alive. The greater the height that you fall from, the higher the odds that when you hit the ground the deeper the hole that you'll create is going to be. That fear can be overcome with exposure for most. My toes try to reach back and curl around the rung of a ladder at any height greater than 6 feet to the extent that I can hardly walk when I climb back down. I just don't happen to spend much time on a ladder. When flying, the higher the better. Glide ratio in fixed wing was burned in to the gray stuff behind my eyeballs early on. Near miss with an unmapped power line in a S55A and attending the funeral of a buddy that did not miss a powerline a couple of years later added to that desire to be up high. Probably sounds odd, but a man that can't climb a ladder without experiencing physical pain is perfectly comfortable at a height which if he fell from would certainly result in the "nuthin left but hair, teeth and an eyeball" scenario.
No powerlines at 5k AGL.
No powerlines at 5k AGL.
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I don't like flying any higher than about 1500 AGL, mostly because of fear of heights, but also because many emergencies in a helicopter require you to get down ether as soon as possible or immediately. The highest altitude I have been in a helicopter was in a loaded UH-1H at 16,800 ft doing an engine cooling test (single PT6). The Vne was 58 KIAS and any speed above about 55 KIAS produced a pretty rough 2/rev vibration. Also, the collective was 70% of full up and if the engine quit the Nr decay would have been too quick to recover and make an auto.
Since helicopters have gearboxes and engines with chip detectors, it is a good idea to get the bird down on the ground when the warning light illuminates. Most of the time there is no chip, usually fuzz, but you don't know that until you can pull the chip plug and look at it. Also, losing oil pressure in an engine or gearbox at altitude is problematic. Take a look at the S-92 crash off Nova Scotia in another thread.
In that same UH-1H above, I experienced an engine electrical fire on the ground while ground running. It became a non event after quickly shutting down and extinguishing the fire. If I had been at 16,800 ft. when that happened, I suspect that I would not be here writing this blurb, since the UH-1H has no installed fire suppression system.
Just my thoughts.
Since helicopters have gearboxes and engines with chip detectors, it is a good idea to get the bird down on the ground when the warning light illuminates. Most of the time there is no chip, usually fuzz, but you don't know that until you can pull the chip plug and look at it. Also, losing oil pressure in an engine or gearbox at altitude is problematic. Take a look at the S-92 crash off Nova Scotia in another thread.
In that same UH-1H above, I experienced an engine electrical fire on the ground while ground running. It became a non event after quickly shutting down and extinguishing the fire. If I had been at 16,800 ft. when that happened, I suspect that I would not be here writing this blurb, since the UH-1H has no installed fire suppression system.
Just my thoughts.
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I feel exactly the same way. Anything more than 800-1000 agl and I begin to get the willies.
Note: I have never been fond of heights, i.e. looking over a 10th floor balcony, etc.
Note: I have never been fond of heights, i.e. looking over a 10th floor balcony, etc.
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From a back-seaters perspective it's even more uncomfortable. I remember flying in PNG with the doors back at 9 or 10,000 FT. I used to occupy a centre seat in order to calm the nerves. The best method to overcome it is to keep yourself occupied and not think to much........
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When I used to instruct in Robbos, I got very used to the typical sight picture at approx 1500-2000ft AGL, and going above 3000ft or in the vicinity of mountains made me feel uneasy.. 
I think it was just a comfort thing really, as now that I fly something a bit bigger I would rather be well above 3000 ft most of the time, especially on a good day when you know there will be all sorts of VFR stuff bimbling around low level, not looking where they are going.. (recently spotted a homemade plank type just a couple of hundred feet below me about 500m away who was hugging high ground at about 200ft on a CAVOK day..)
My personal best in a heli was FL90 enroute through Manchester zone from Liverpool to Silverstone..
High static objects is a different matter.. I don't like looking over the side of tall buildings, towers, bridges etc, and I ain't climbing no cranes or chimneys, no thanks!
Anyone ever saw that french Spiderman dude that free climbs sky scrapers? Amazing to watch but makes me sweat just looking at it
I think it was just a comfort thing really, as now that I fly something a bit bigger I would rather be well above 3000 ft most of the time, especially on a good day when you know there will be all sorts of VFR stuff bimbling around low level, not looking where they are going.. (recently spotted a homemade plank type just a couple of hundred feet below me about 500m away who was hugging high ground at about 200ft on a CAVOK day..)
My personal best in a heli was FL90 enroute through Manchester zone from Liverpool to Silverstone..
High static objects is a different matter.. I don't like looking over the side of tall buildings, towers, bridges etc, and I ain't climbing no cranes or chimneys, no thanks!
Anyone ever saw that french Spiderman dude that free climbs sky scrapers? Amazing to watch but makes me sweat just looking at it
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Ive been working on the rigs the last 20 years and hate anything above 2000ft. The highest I can remember on a north sea flight was 6000ft in a super puma and once went to 9000ft in equatorial guinea, i think that was a 76.
Out of interest what is the max height for North Sea travel and what are the determiming factors? I can't see why they all cant fly at 800-1000 and keep all the passengers happy.
Out of interest what is the max height for North Sea travel and what are the determiming factors? I can't see why they all cant fly at 800-1000 and keep all the passengers happy.