Fear of heights?
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10.000ft on H300
We were climbing to pass the appennini, impossible to find a hole between terrain and ground so we climbed and try above. The only uncomfortable sensation is full throttle and collective and little speed. All the rest is funny if you keep contact with the terrain.
But I'm scared by tall buildings and bridges. They give me a bad physical sensation. I can't describe it here
But I'm scared by tall buildings and bridges. They give me a bad physical sensation. I can't describe it here
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10,200 in a R-44 Raven II. It had more in it, DA at the time was somewhere around 11k, but I had no desire to go any higher. I'll stick with 1500 agl, thank you.
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Chaps,
I've just come across this thread after using the search facility.
During my helicopter training I have started to somehow feel a little uneasy while up there at 2000ft and out of my comfort zone in an unusual enviroment. It is starting to play on my mind a little and any advice on how to overcome this would be greatly appreciated.
It seems as though, after reading the posts on here, that flying at maybe 1000ft or even lower might help the feeling of uneasiness but any other tips would be welcome.
Many thanks.
I've just come across this thread after using the search facility.
During my helicopter training I have started to somehow feel a little uneasy while up there at 2000ft and out of my comfort zone in an unusual enviroment. It is starting to play on my mind a little and any advice on how to overcome this would be greatly appreciated.
It seems as though, after reading the posts on here, that flying at maybe 1000ft or even lower might help the feeling of uneasiness but any other tips would be welcome.
Many thanks.
Last edited by KNIEVEL77; 10th Dec 2010 at 08:16. Reason: Spelling error.
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I had the same problem when I was training, so I told my Instructor (Mike Smith) who informed me that it was perfectly normal to feel that way and when we flew tomorrow he would cure me !
A while later I asked how he would manage this and he informed me that the next day he would conduct the lessons at 10,000ft and after that 2500ft would feel fine !!!!
The next day and a few hours at 10,000ft in a Hughes 300 certainly did the job, I now regulary fly above 2500ft, and there are lots of safe reasons why this is a good idea, I took some guys to 4500ft on Sunday and Auto'd down they thought it was fantastic !!
A while later I asked how he would manage this and he informed me that the next day he would conduct the lessons at 10,000ft and after that 2500ft would feel fine !!!!
The next day and a few hours at 10,000ft in a Hughes 300 certainly did the job, I now regulary fly above 2500ft, and there are lots of safe reasons why this is a good idea, I took some guys to 4500ft on Sunday and Auto'd down they thought it was fantastic !!
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Hi alt
My first flight over 6K gave me the creeps, so much, that on the way back I took a major detour flying valleys. Since then, that feeling most of the times disappeared and I am been flying regularly over 10K in robbies, even prefer it over being shaken by lower valley or ridge winds.
I think it is a combination of
(1) fear of heights
(2) the fear produced by a feeling of imbalance.
The first part can be softened by flying "shouldered": keep a mountain ridge just above your "shoulder". I think it can be trained by going progressively higher.
The second part comes from loss of reference. This is consistent with the testimonies of progressive fear at high hover, or when there is turbulence, or over sea. For this part it is useful to be comfortable to be able to fly "IFR", that is without visual reference. At high alt I have "one eye on the instruments" because turbulence and updrafts will provoke unbalances (speed, climb rates, vibrations) that are not easily controlled because reduced outside visual references. This is more pronounced in light helis without stability augmentation nor autopilot.
m2c,
d3
I think it is a combination of
(1) fear of heights
(2) the fear produced by a feeling of imbalance.
The first part can be softened by flying "shouldered": keep a mountain ridge just above your "shoulder". I think it can be trained by going progressively higher.
The second part comes from loss of reference. This is consistent with the testimonies of progressive fear at high hover, or when there is turbulence, or over sea. For this part it is useful to be comfortable to be able to fly "IFR", that is without visual reference. At high alt I have "one eye on the instruments" because turbulence and updrafts will provoke unbalances (speed, climb rates, vibrations) that are not easily controlled because reduced outside visual references. This is more pronounced in light helis without stability augmentation nor autopilot.
m2c,
d3
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Must admit I was somewhat surprised during the Vietnam era the number of US Army pilots who didn't feel comfortable flying above 1,500. Possible MGB failure was always the answer - never asked if it was something drummed into them during flight training. Took one lad to 16,000 to show him the sights. Part of our initial helo training was a height climb to 14,000 (UH-1B) so never really thought twice about it, and when the rare chance of an IMC flight came about 10,000 was regularly used by all company pilots (212/412/76)
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Not sure if I had posted this before (the thread is quite old...). My personal experience is that with doors off, anything above 2,500' makes one feel quite exposed (except at night when you can't see the ground).
And 20,000' AGL even with the doors on makes one feel very exposed....
(parachute and oxygen mask don't help)
And 20,000' AGL even with the doors on makes one feel very exposed....
(parachute and oxygen mask don't help)
Being a plank driver for 20 years before my rotor rating, altitude is a good thing, and it doesn't bother me with doors off or on. However, perch me on a ladder 20 feet up and I'm getting damn uncomfortable. Maybe it's the lack of structure around me? In fact, the video going around the 'net of the guys climbing the 1700 foot tower just plain creeps me out. It starts to make my knees weak. And I'm watching it sitting in my friggin' office chair, quite safe and sound! Well, I'm not a total wimp. I'll still fly a Robbie, given the chance.
Sounds like most of us heli pilots are a bunch of sissies when it comes to standing on a bridge or a building ledge. I get the hibijibies just watching people bungi jumping...
As part of our ppl training one of the last lessons is to take the student to 10 000'. Worst was doing it one summer day in a 22 with the doors off...!!! Won't do that again.
Was on a ferry flight to Nigeria trying to get over the hamatan (dust from the Sahara) to get a bit of clean air and vis, and was at about 11 500' when the hydraulics went kaboom... Sounded like we were hit by something explosive...
Being in IF conditions, no hydraulics and having this contious screetching metal on metal and then kaboom noice going off in the boot on the emergency decent into the middle of nowhere was no fun...
Wind and weather prevailing I still fly most of my long haul ferries across africa at 10 000'. Have saved thousands of $$$ for the boss and many hours. The saving on fuel often means we don't have to find a place to land in the middle of nowhere to fuel from the drums, and in the middle of summer, temperatures and the ride are so much more comfortable...
As part of our ppl training one of the last lessons is to take the student to 10 000'. Worst was doing it one summer day in a 22 with the doors off...!!! Won't do that again.
Was on a ferry flight to Nigeria trying to get over the hamatan (dust from the Sahara) to get a bit of clean air and vis, and was at about 11 500' when the hydraulics went kaboom... Sounded like we were hit by something explosive...
Being in IF conditions, no hydraulics and having this contious screetching metal on metal and then kaboom noice going off in the boot on the emergency decent into the middle of nowhere was no fun...
Wind and weather prevailing I still fly most of my long haul ferries across africa at 10 000'. Have saved thousands of $$$ for the boss and many hours. The saving on fuel often means we don't have to find a place to land in the middle of nowhere to fuel from the drums, and in the middle of summer, temperatures and the ride are so much more comfortable...
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My personal survey conducted over the last 20+ years of fixed and rotary wing pilots indicates that 80% of pilots hate heights in buildings, and most won't go up on the roof of their house...
Avoid imitations
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My personal survey conducted over the last 20+ years of fixed and rotary wing pilots indicates that 80% of pilots hate heights in buildings, and most won't go up on the roof of their house...
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I remember seeing 10,700 in a 22 in the Drakensberg's, SA. Circling around the highest peak, and a frozen waterfall, followed by a 5 min autorotation back to base camp at 4000' and it was wonderful.
Heights don't bother me but the oddest feeling of height I have experienced was enroute from Durban to the Drakensberg's where the ground level progressively climbs and we were flying at approx 4-5000 ft AMSL but approx 50' AGL (temporarily), upon reaching a large cliff the ground suddenly dropped away by 2-3000 feet... It certainly made our stomachs jump
I had always believed that one of the height limitations of the 22 is due to the time to get it down on the ground in an engine fire... Maybe not true, but good enough reason for me to not choose to put myself unnecessarily far from terra firma
Heights don't bother me but the oddest feeling of height I have experienced was enroute from Durban to the Drakensberg's where the ground level progressively climbs and we were flying at approx 4-5000 ft AMSL but approx 50' AGL (temporarily), upon reaching a large cliff the ground suddenly dropped away by 2-3000 feet... It certainly made our stomachs jump
I had always believed that one of the height limitations of the 22 is due to the time to get it down on the ground in an engine fire... Maybe not true, but good enough reason for me to not choose to put myself unnecessarily far from terra firma
Maybe it's the lack of structure around me?
Roofs,ladders,cliffs, you name it...... you can fall OFF those things you know!!
Altitude in whichever helicopter don't bother me, however hanging out of the door instead of looking through the hole in the floor, makes it a little more uncomfortable than "heads in".
Last edited by Nubian; 12th Dec 2010 at 15:36.
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Perception - it’s a function of what you are used to. I spend more time skydiving than helicopter flying. So flying at higher altitudes (with doors on or off) makes no difference to me.
However, it is interesting that many very experienced skydivers have the exact same aversion as many of the replies above when doing “cross country” jumps. “Cross-Countries” are skydives done at the same ordinary jump height of 12,000-13,000ft but instead of freefalling to 3,000 before opening your parachute, you deploy as soon as jumping out of the aircraft. The result will be a 15min+ parachute ride down. Yet I’ve seen many guys with years in the sport and a couple thousand jumps say they just feel uncomfortable hanging in their harness looking at their feet with over 12,000ft under them – as their usual “sight picture” is 3000ft
I remember when I was doing heli lessons during windy/turbulent days, my instructor would say “you seem more comfortable with turbulence than any student I’ve had”. To which I replied “you should try the same turbulence with just some fabric and strings over your head”
However, it is interesting that many very experienced skydivers have the exact same aversion as many of the replies above when doing “cross country” jumps. “Cross-Countries” are skydives done at the same ordinary jump height of 12,000-13,000ft but instead of freefalling to 3,000 before opening your parachute, you deploy as soon as jumping out of the aircraft. The result will be a 15min+ parachute ride down. Yet I’ve seen many guys with years in the sport and a couple thousand jumps say they just feel uncomfortable hanging in their harness looking at their feet with over 12,000ft under them – as their usual “sight picture” is 3000ft
I remember when I was doing heli lessons during windy/turbulent days, my instructor would say “you seem more comfortable with turbulence than any student I’ve had”. To which I replied “you should try the same turbulence with just some fabric and strings over your head”
