Fear of heights?
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Fear of heights?
I don’t like flying high in a helicopter. Don’t feel comfortable with it. Anything above 3000 feet gives me the willies. I’ve got no such problem with fixed-wing… just helicopters.. .I thought it was just me, until I read the following in a book about Stanley Hiller. It describes an altitude record set by Terry Clark, who flew a Hiller 12E to 27,500 feet in 1983. It says:. .‘There is an odd phenomenon in helicopter flight whereby the floor beneath one’s feet appears to shrink as one climbs higher. Five miles up, Clark’s perch offered little more psychological support than a postage stamp. He later characterized this unusual flight as “harder than any mission I flew in Vietnam”.. .Is this a recognised phenomenon? How many people feel the same way?
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As a candidate at Ft. Wolters, I took a Bell OH-13 to 12,000 feet, doors off in the summer, and was so scared as the aircraft shrank that I stopped climbing purely from fright, gently autorotated back down. I felt as if I was on a tight-rope, and could flip over if anything upset me! The open door out my left shoulder was awesome.
Since then, no problem, been to 20000 several times.
Since then, no problem, been to 20000 several times.
Maybe it's because from 12,000 ft you'll have several minutes to know about it when the blades fall off, or the main trannie' fails? I do find that the larger the aircraft, the better off I feel at altitude.
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Speaking as a pax, I dont feel comfortable flying high (AGL) in a chopper either, unless I'm occupied with track/balance equipment or t/shooting some sort of fault thus keeping me distracted from dwelling on it.. .If the helo has little or no airspeed at altitude then I start to sweat, no matter what I'm doing.
The reasons for the scary sensation must be to do with some sort of yet un-named phobia maybe?
The reasons for the scary sensation must be to do with some sort of yet un-named phobia maybe?
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Interesting question. I have come across a few pilots, 10000H+ that have the same sensation. I must admit that 1000H+ later mainly flown 500' to 2000', I am starting to feel a little uneasy climbing above 3000'. Down under, we fly with all doors removed due to the heat factor in the cabin. Could it be an influencing factor? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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What an interesting thread!
I too dislike altitude in helis. Possibly because of a rational fear of Cessna enemas instilled by my teachers, bless 'em.
Doors off, well sort of alright. But very high in a heli is not my very favorite feeling, particularly if it's a CAVU day.
Possibly it's the changed horizon cue that's disturbing. Curved and lower than usual sort of thing.
Then again if the weather is less than perfect I'm perfectly comfy.
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
I too dislike altitude in helis. Possibly because of a rational fear of Cessna enemas instilled by my teachers, bless 'em.
Doors off, well sort of alright. But very high in a heli is not my very favorite feeling, particularly if it's a CAVU day.
Possibly it's the changed horizon cue that's disturbing. Curved and lower than usual sort of thing.
Then again if the weather is less than perfect I'm perfectly comfy.
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
How things change. The 'height climb' to 10,000ft in a Whirlie 7 was a major exercise during wings training, and took 30 minutes each way, parachute and all. I swear the instructor was more nervous than the stude, but after a quick demo of retreating blade stall (actually a surreptitious kick at the base of the cyclic by the instructor, no way was he going anywhere near such a condition <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> ) and a long auto down, we tried never to go above 200' agl for the rest of the time in the Andrew.
These days, cruise at 7-10k is commonplace, and all my winter ops are 7-8000, operating from 6000' amsl pads. Doors off ops. are one of my favourites, swanning along with the best view in town (and a decent heater in winter....)
Nervous of heights? Don't look down <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: John Eacott ]</p>
These days, cruise at 7-10k is commonplace, and all my winter ops are 7-8000, operating from 6000' amsl pads. Doors off ops. are one of my favourites, swanning along with the best view in town (and a decent heater in winter....)
Nervous of heights? Don't look down <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: John Eacott ]</p>
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Two years ago I took a nearly new R22 up to 6000 Ft, not far from the lake District in the UK, the view was stunning and very different from all those training flights,most of the clouds were in the wrong place, and it had a very "erie" (spelling) feeling about it, and funny thing is it seemed much quieter, after a long gentle descent I felt much more at home around the 2000/1500ft area, not been there since!!
t'aint natural, I have developed the same snag. In the past, I had no problem at 10K+, as a matter of fact in Asia I would go up there routinely to escape the 35ºC heat. Nowadays, I just can't do it anymore, and I know a few guys who are the same way. It doesn’t seem to bother me IFR for some reason, only when I look outside. Funny thing is I could spend all day with the door off, hanging out and looking down from 200’. I’m sure that would hurt just as much!
I had a theory that because I had spent so much time looking straight down from the end of a 100-200' string doing precision work, that my butt had become hypersensitive to very small aircraft movements. At altitude, with very little visual reference, I was feeling the ship move, but my eyes weren’t seeing it. I don’t fly much anymore, so I never really dug deep to get an answer.
I had a theory that because I had spent so much time looking straight down from the end of a 100-200' string doing precision work, that my butt had become hypersensitive to very small aircraft movements. At altitude, with very little visual reference, I was feeling the ship move, but my eyes weren’t seeing it. I don’t fly much anymore, so I never really dug deep to get an answer.
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The lower the better for me too, Ive been to 10000 ft on engine condition checks and IFR flights. IFR no worries, swanning around at slower speeds is altogether different, didn't particularly like it.
Ive had some fixed wing types absolutely wrapped with fear when flying low, they hate it, I love it.
Ive had some fixed wing types absolutely wrapped with fear when flying low, they hate it, I love it.
"Just a pilot"
I've noticed the floor shrinking too.... .Sure is nice to have some sky between me and the lumpy stuff.. .Secondary observation-If I'm high for speed or fuel considerations, I'm fine. If I'm up there to improve forced landing chances, it's scary-even at night when I can't see the emptiness beneath me...
T'aint natural et al. .I reckon that this is pretty widespread - certainly used to have the same problem ... above three HUNDRED ft, never mind 3 thousand. The Whirlwind air test height climb was, indeed, not much liked. My old Boss, who had mega hours on hiccopleeters, used to say that the only way he could complete a height climb was to imagine the biggest pair of swept wings in the world attached to the cabin behind him, out of view.. .My worst moment was when one of our brain dead Winch Ops put me over the side on the cable at 1500'. Now I know it was a 30 cwt cable, but it didn't seem that substantial at the time !! The ensuing 'discussion' included some pointers to his likely early demise and the legality of his parents nuptials 
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I have received the same thing from everyone here where I fly as well, highest reached by any of our CFI's was 7K.
I think it also comes down to the lack of visual clues that give you a little jump. Consider:
R-22 at 500' 75Kias, you look out and feel like you are moving.
Raise alt to 1500': and you feel like you are standing still, even though you are still at 75Kias.
I've been working my altitudes up slowly because it does make me a little jumpy, starting with doors on, then off.
Man, glad someone else brought this topic up! . .(Although RW-1 has done aerobatics (fixed wing) in the past, he has an inherant fear of altitude for some strange reason. I think g-d is playing with him.)
I think it also comes down to the lack of visual clues that give you a little jump. Consider:
R-22 at 500' 75Kias, you look out and feel like you are moving.
Raise alt to 1500': and you feel like you are standing still, even though you are still at 75Kias.
I've been working my altitudes up slowly because it does make me a little jumpy, starting with doors on, then off.
Man, glad someone else brought this topic up!
. .(Although RW-1 has done aerobatics (fixed wing) in the past, he has an inherant fear of altitude for some strange reason. I think g-d is playing with him.)
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Very interesting thread.
I think that many pilots have now to their relief discovered that they are not all that strange after all.
I've been at 5000´ AGL in gusty winds in the H300 and I didn't like it. The floor just seemed to have left my heli when I got up there. 500´- 1500´ AGL are good altitudes and I'd like to fly there somewhere in between.
In my opinion I think its better to be closer to the ground in the event of any kind of emergency such as having to take a **** or maybe a more serious one, like fire. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Heli-Ice
I think that many pilots have now to their relief discovered that they are not all that strange after all.
I've been at 5000´ AGL in gusty winds in the H300 and I didn't like it. The floor just seemed to have left my heli when I got up there. 500´- 1500´ AGL are good altitudes and I'd like to fly there somewhere in between.
In my opinion I think its better to be closer to the ground in the event of any kind of emergency such as having to take a **** or maybe a more serious one, like fire. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Heli-Ice
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How interesting...
Most of my flying is done between 500 -1000 agl as there is no reason to go higher and I absolutly love flying helicopters always have done.. .Over the X-mas period I had a two week break from flying and at the first opportunity I had an almost cavok day and thought I'll take up to 1500 feet. It felt very strange like almost uncomfortable although it did go away after a little while.. .It must be the change in perspective that brings this on. Would like to find out what reason behind this is.. .Safe Flying. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Most of my flying is done between 500 -1000 agl as there is no reason to go higher and I absolutly love flying helicopters always have done.. .Over the X-mas period I had a two week break from flying and at the first opportunity I had an almost cavok day and thought I'll take up to 1500 feet. It felt very strange like almost uncomfortable although it did go away after a little while.. .It must be the change in perspective that brings this on. Would like to find out what reason behind this is.. .Safe Flying. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
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I can not stand being over 1500agl. The last month I have been doing a lot of mountain stuff, and coming off an 8000' mountain in moderate turbulance. <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> Feel like I am just going to turn over and tumble down.
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Personally for me, its the lack of speed indication over the ground and the thought that im just that bit further from the ground than I have to be. I thought only a few of us existed. This would make an interesting human factors study of helicopter pilots and their interest in seeing the ground closer to their work place.
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Thank you all for these fascinating and informative replies. It's good to know I'm not alone in this.. .I'm not sure that theories about the lack of apparent groundspeed hold good. After all, this phenomenon does not affect me when I'm flying a fixed-wing. I suspect it's something to do with the instability of the helicopter, the feeling that you're balancing on the head of a pin.... .A guy I spoke to last weekend about this says he had an instructor who looked over the side, on one of his early student flights, and said: "We're about four screams up here... go lower."