Robinson R44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Russia
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-------that'd be 3300 feet.
this is in meters, because this helicopter fly in Russian www.heliaction.ru , and altimeter is metric there...
one more picture with landing little bit over 3000 meter
this is in meters, because this helicopter fly in Russian www.heliaction.ru , and altimeter is metric there... one more picture with landing little bit over 3000 meter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
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a/c - r44 raven I
2 pilots(160kg)
fuel 40 liter
wind 2-3m/sec
That would be carby air temp, with the carby heat pulled on, not really a deciding factor in performance old boy.
2 pilots(160kg)
fuel 40 liter
wind 2-3m/sec
+10C
Fastest R44 OTG?
It's been a little gusty in dear old blighty over the last few weeks - how about this? 187mph (163kts) in an R44 (top right hand figure)?! We saw 194mph (169kts) at one point - that's a 59kt tailwind. On the ground the wind was 50mph gusting 70mph. Didn't take us long to get home 
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Close to the hangar, UK.
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Snap! 194mph OTG.
Flying Pencil and I delivered a 44 to Girona last year on a day when it was blowing a gale. On the way to Lydd we were clocking up 180mph and then on climbing and crossing to Cap Griz we hit 194mph.
Sadly I was too busy being thrown around to record it all.
We landed somewhere in France where it was 45Kts across the main runway. So our approach was at almost 90 degrees to the centerline and then Flying Pencil had to hang out of the door so I could reverse down one of the taxi ways and on to the pumps.
Wasn't too much of an issue as nothing else seemed to be flying.
Flying Pencil and I delivered a 44 to Girona last year on a day when it was blowing a gale. On the way to Lydd we were clocking up 180mph and then on climbing and crossing to Cap Griz we hit 194mph.
Sadly I was too busy being thrown around to record it all.
We landed somewhere in France where it was 45Kts across the main runway. So our approach was at almost 90 degrees to the centerline and then Flying Pencil had to hang out of the door so I could reverse down one of the taxi ways and on to the pumps.
Wasn't too much of an issue as nothing else seemed to be flying.
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On the topic of wind. Is there any particular reason why the UK ground wind limit is 26 knots for the 44? As I understand it 26 knots is for both the 22 and 44. Or do I have it wrong?
MVNH
MVNH
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Robinson R-44
Is Robbie still saying helmets & Nomex required to fly/ride in the R-44?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Defect in popular helicopter killed four following crash, attorneys claim
Attorney: Seattle pilot, others "should have walked away" from crash
By LEVI PULKKINEN
SEATTLEPI.COM STAFF
Gravity and, likely, a mechanical failure brought down the helicopter in August 2007, impacting on a hillside a few miles outside of Easton.
It was the fire that followed that ended the lives of four on board, a timber owner, two Korean furniture makers and the pilot. And that fire, attorneys for one of the dead now claim, could have easily been prevented had the helicopter's manufacturer acted to remedy a long-known design flaw in the popular aircraft.
Ilyas Akbari, an attorney representing killed furniture manufacturer Si Young Lee, claimed Robinson Helicopter Co. had been told that a string of post-crash fires had resulted in deaths years before the Easton crash. Rather than strengthen the gas tanks aboard the light helicopters, the company opted to issued a safety warning suggesting that crew and passengers wear flame-retardant flight suits, helmets and gloves before flying.
Akbari contended that, had the company instead moved to fortify the fuel tank aboard the R44 Astro helicopter or enclose the fuel in a rubber bladder, Lee and the other victims of the crash would have survived. The alleged flaw, he argued, represents an unnecessary threat to any who board the helicopter, which is among the most popular in the world and used extensively for pilot training in the United States.
"We think that all four of these people could have survived this crash, should have survived this crash, if not for this defective gas tank," said Akbari, who filed the suit on behalf of Lee's family late last month in King County Superior Court.
"These people," he added, "should have walked away from this crash."
Contacted for comment, a Robinson spokesperson said the company does not comment on pending litigation.
Hoping to inspect timber for a potential purchase, Lee boarded the helicopter on Aug. 2, 2007, at Boeing Field in Seattle. The furniture company president was accompanied by his business partner Hyun Song, as well as Snohomish County timber owner Robert Hagermann and pilot Keiko Minakata, a 41-year-old Seattle woman.
They flew over Snoqualmie Pass to Hagermann's logging site situated in the hills four miles south of Easton, where they landed and spent less than an hour examining the property. Preparing to return to Seattle, they lifted off from the hillside and traveled about 150 feet before the helicopter apparently lost power.
Members of a logging crew working nearby witnessed the crash and said the helicopter lifted off cleanly before it began to wobble and descend, air safety investigator Tom Little said days after the crash.
"It was in a left bank, and for some reason became uncontrollable," said Little, of the National Transportation Safety Board. "It impacted the terrain, then burst into flames."
Surrounded by tinder-dry forest, the flames tore through hundreds of acres of timber before wildland firefighters assisted by aerial water drops were able to gain control of the blaze.
Speaking Friday, Akbari said that fire and the deaths of those aboard the helicopter could have been prevented had Robinson redesigned the fuel tank atop the R44.
Touted as the world's largest manufacturer of helicopters for commercial use, Robinson has produced more than 9,000 light helicopters since it was founded in 1973, according to company statements. The Torance, Calif.-based company claims to employee 1,200 people with annual sales exceeding $200 million; its helicopters, available in two-seat and four-seat configurations, have been sold in 50 countries.
Akbari contended that similar fires have followed dozens of such crashes around the world. Those fires, he said, and regulatory pressure prompted the company to issue a single-paragraph warning to users in July 2006. Nowhere in the notice does the company warn that the helicopters it produces could present a particular danger.
"There have been a number of cases where helicopter or light plane occupants have survived an accident only to be severely burned by fire following the accident," the notice read. "To reduce the risk of injury in a post-crash fire, it is strongly recommended that a fire-retardant Nomex flight suit, gloves and hood or helmet be worn by all occupants."
Calling the notice "a cynical attempt to avoid liability for a known dangerous and faulty design," Akbari argued the company is aware that the fuel tank is apt to explode following a low-speed crash like the one Lee and the others experienced.
On impact, Akbari said, a helicopter's top rotor usually strikes the ground and causes the aircraft the flip. Following that second impact, Akbari said, the Robinson tank can rupture and catch fire.
Akbari argued that an inexpensive fix -- either strengthening the gas tank or enclosing the fuel in a resilient, air-tight bladder -- would prevent the fires. Such a change, he said, would be a fraction of the $400,000 helicopter's cost.
"Robinson knew that these crashes were unsafe and were immolating their passengers," Akbari said. "People are dying for no reason."
Robinson has not yet formally responded to the lawsuit, which was filed Sept. 29 in King County Superior Court. Though financial damages are sought, no dollar figure is noted in court filings.
Source: Defect in popular helicopter killed four following crash, attorneys claim
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Defect in popular helicopter killed four following crash, attorneys claim
Attorney: Seattle pilot, others "should have walked away" from crash
By LEVI PULKKINEN
SEATTLEPI.COM STAFF
Gravity and, likely, a mechanical failure brought down the helicopter in August 2007, impacting on a hillside a few miles outside of Easton.
It was the fire that followed that ended the lives of four on board, a timber owner, two Korean furniture makers and the pilot. And that fire, attorneys for one of the dead now claim, could have easily been prevented had the helicopter's manufacturer acted to remedy a long-known design flaw in the popular aircraft.
Ilyas Akbari, an attorney representing killed furniture manufacturer Si Young Lee, claimed Robinson Helicopter Co. had been told that a string of post-crash fires had resulted in deaths years before the Easton crash. Rather than strengthen the gas tanks aboard the light helicopters, the company opted to issued a safety warning suggesting that crew and passengers wear flame-retardant flight suits, helmets and gloves before flying.
Akbari contended that, had the company instead moved to fortify the fuel tank aboard the R44 Astro helicopter or enclose the fuel in a rubber bladder, Lee and the other victims of the crash would have survived. The alleged flaw, he argued, represents an unnecessary threat to any who board the helicopter, which is among the most popular in the world and used extensively for pilot training in the United States.
"We think that all four of these people could have survived this crash, should have survived this crash, if not for this defective gas tank," said Akbari, who filed the suit on behalf of Lee's family late last month in King County Superior Court.
"These people," he added, "should have walked away from this crash."
Contacted for comment, a Robinson spokesperson said the company does not comment on pending litigation.
Hoping to inspect timber for a potential purchase, Lee boarded the helicopter on Aug. 2, 2007, at Boeing Field in Seattle. The furniture company president was accompanied by his business partner Hyun Song, as well as Snohomish County timber owner Robert Hagermann and pilot Keiko Minakata, a 41-year-old Seattle woman.
They flew over Snoqualmie Pass to Hagermann's logging site situated in the hills four miles south of Easton, where they landed and spent less than an hour examining the property. Preparing to return to Seattle, they lifted off from the hillside and traveled about 150 feet before the helicopter apparently lost power.
Members of a logging crew working nearby witnessed the crash and said the helicopter lifted off cleanly before it began to wobble and descend, air safety investigator Tom Little said days after the crash.
"It was in a left bank, and for some reason became uncontrollable," said Little, of the National Transportation Safety Board. "It impacted the terrain, then burst into flames."
Surrounded by tinder-dry forest, the flames tore through hundreds of acres of timber before wildland firefighters assisted by aerial water drops were able to gain control of the blaze.
Speaking Friday, Akbari said that fire and the deaths of those aboard the helicopter could have been prevented had Robinson redesigned the fuel tank atop the R44.
Touted as the world's largest manufacturer of helicopters for commercial use, Robinson has produced more than 9,000 light helicopters since it was founded in 1973, according to company statements. The Torance, Calif.-based company claims to employee 1,200 people with annual sales exceeding $200 million; its helicopters, available in two-seat and four-seat configurations, have been sold in 50 countries.
Akbari contended that similar fires have followed dozens of such crashes around the world. Those fires, he said, and regulatory pressure prompted the company to issue a single-paragraph warning to users in July 2006. Nowhere in the notice does the company warn that the helicopters it produces could present a particular danger.
"There have been a number of cases where helicopter or light plane occupants have survived an accident only to be severely burned by fire following the accident," the notice read. "To reduce the risk of injury in a post-crash fire, it is strongly recommended that a fire-retardant Nomex flight suit, gloves and hood or helmet be worn by all occupants."
Calling the notice "a cynical attempt to avoid liability for a known dangerous and faulty design," Akbari argued the company is aware that the fuel tank is apt to explode following a low-speed crash like the one Lee and the others experienced.
On impact, Akbari said, a helicopter's top rotor usually strikes the ground and causes the aircraft the flip. Following that second impact, Akbari said, the Robinson tank can rupture and catch fire.
Akbari argued that an inexpensive fix -- either strengthening the gas tank or enclosing the fuel in a resilient, air-tight bladder -- would prevent the fires. Such a change, he said, would be a fraction of the $400,000 helicopter's cost.
"Robinson knew that these crashes were unsafe and were immolating their passengers," Akbari said. "People are dying for no reason."
Robinson has not yet formally responded to the lawsuit, which was filed Sept. 29 in King County Superior Court. Though financial damages are sought, no dollar figure is noted in court filings.
Source: Defect in popular helicopter killed four following crash, attorneys claim
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Is Robbie still saying helmets & Nomex required to fly/ride in the R-44?
Monday, July 31, 2006 - Robinson Helicopter Company
Safety Notice SN-40
Issued: Jul 2006
POSTCRASH FIRES
There have been a number of cases where helicopter or light plane occupants have survived an accident only to be severely burned by fire following the accident. To reduce the risk of injury in a postcrash fire, it is strongly recommended that afire-retardant Nomex flight suit, gloves, and hood or helmet be worn by all occupants.
http://www.robinsonheli.com/srvclib/rchsn40.pdf
Is Robbie still saying helmets & Nomex required to fly/ride in the R-44?
Not that there is anything wrong with protective clothing no matter what kind of tank you have, but I agree that it does seem strange to recommend fire proof clothing to the passengers, while making helicopters for 30 years with tanks that aren't crash proof.
How many % of the post crash fires would have been prevented with a different type of tank? Nobody knows, but new R44s do now come with a fuel bladder, at least optional.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Out of interest - can the bladder be retrofitted to an existing 44 with current fuel tank, or a new fuel tank fitted with the bladder already installed ?
I am asuming the cost of a new fuel tank with bladder already installed is way too expensive to do on a whim - So only at overhaul or a safety conscious owner ? or only on a brand new order?
Just interested
Thanks.
I am asuming the cost of a new fuel tank with bladder already installed is way too expensive to do on a whim - So only at overhaul or a safety conscious owner ? or only on a brand new order?
Just interested
Thanks.
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So, from what I can gather by this 'recommendation' from Robinson that crew and passengers don helmets and Nomex before flying in the R-44, if they don't follow this 'recommendation, then Robinson wouldn't technically be liable should they be burned or their head injured in a fire or crash.
I'd love to hear the answers given to paying customers on why they need to don Nomex and helmets.
Anyone aware of any operator providing such safety gear to their customers?
I'd love to hear the answers given to paying customers on why they need to don Nomex and helmets.
Anyone aware of any operator providing such safety gear to their customers?
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Not to detract from the OP's question, but the lawyers are misrepresenting the facts of the case some. I followed the case at the time--it happened 2 months into my training, and Keiko was the first instructor I ever flew with.
Taking from discussions on other forums, the business aspect of safety equipment is a barrier to the acceptance of flight suits and/or helmets (irrespective of whether or not they are a good idea). The reasoning goes (and this isn't my opinion) that a new student might not be so enthusiastic if the instructor comes out in Nomex and a helmet, or he too is asked to gear up. This instills an attitude early in training that stymies anybody who breaks from the pack. I've flown at almost a dozen schools, and only seen 2 instructors outside of the factory course in Nomex.
Taking from discussions on other forums, the business aspect of safety equipment is a barrier to the acceptance of flight suits and/or helmets (irrespective of whether or not they are a good idea). The reasoning goes (and this isn't my opinion) that a new student might not be so enthusiastic if the instructor comes out in Nomex and a helmet, or he too is asked to gear up. This instills an attitude early in training that stymies anybody who breaks from the pack. I've flown at almost a dozen schools, and only seen 2 instructors outside of the factory course in Nomex.
this can be a sign of a rough running engine at low RPM, which is also why it ceases at higher rotor speed.
Possible cause is mixture too rich at idle.
Possible cause is mixture too rich at idle.
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On the coccasions I've been in an R44 I've always noticed the slightly crude 'rocking' motion on start up and, sometimes shut down - no doubt caused by the inertia in the two large rotor blades.
If someone was flying in an R44 for the first time I think I would forewarn them so they don't get alarmed when it happens.
If someone was flying in an R44 for the first time I think I would forewarn them so they don't get alarmed when it happens.
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R44 Windscreen De-Ice
With all this cold weather recently I managed to freeze up the screen and was wondering if anyone nows of a windscreen anti ice system for a R44 ?
It seemed to happen when I flew through some clouds and gave me a bit of a scare because I couldnt see properly for quite a while even with the blower on full. I cant believe Robinson designed a heater that didnt clear the screen properly.
Any suggestions from those fellow ppruners who fly regularly in colder climates ?
It seemed to happen when I flew through some clouds and gave me a bit of a scare because I couldnt see properly for quite a while even with the blower on full. I cant believe Robinson designed a heater that didnt clear the screen properly.
Any suggestions from those fellow ppruners who fly regularly in colder climates ?
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"flew through some clouds " in a R44 ?
I think a de-icer is the least of your problems.
A pair of reading glasses might help. " VFR only" it's on the cyclic.
Nice try at a wind up though !
I think a de-icer is the least of your problems.
A pair of reading glasses might help. " VFR only" it's on the cyclic.
Nice try at a wind up though !