Robinson R44
Flying at 8k with the R44
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South East England
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AUW as far as I can remember....
Certainly with full fuel and two up, we cruise at 100kts pulling 22 1/2" MAP.
Full fuel and One up we achive 115kts on 23" easy!
ROC with Two up can go off the scale for a moment before it settles.
Certainly with full fuel and two up, we cruise at 100kts pulling 22 1/2" MAP.
Full fuel and One up we achive 115kts on 23" easy!
ROC with Two up can go off the scale for a moment before it settles.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Bl**dy Hell!
Happy Landing! :
"Not as high as 12k yet, but 6 - 8k in OAT of 25, the Raven II performs very well. This August we had OAT of 30 and we found it to have loads more power at all levels. "
An OAT of 30 at 8k ? Where were you ?
"Not as high as 12k yet, but 6 - 8k in OAT of 25, the Raven II performs very well. This August we had OAT of 30 and we found it to have loads more power at all levels. "
An OAT of 30 at 8k ? Where were you ?
Join Date: May 2003
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R44 type
Life seems to be good to me, I have the opportunity train for the R44 type rating - and somebody else will pay even though I am a simple simple PPL H pilot.
So I'm trying to find out what is required within the JAR-system.
Is there any minimum no. of hours req. for (the) type?
What kind of examination am in to? PC/Skill test?
What kind of examiner is required to execute the skill? PC-ONLY?
Many of you surely wonder how I could receive such training for free. However I am mngmt consultant working primarily with aviation issues and clients within the industry.
Very thankful for any suggestions on the subject.
So I'm trying to find out what is required within the JAR-system.
Is there any minimum no. of hours req. for (the) type?
What kind of examination am in to? PC/Skill test?
What kind of examiner is required to execute the skill? PC-ONLY?
Many of you surely wonder how I could receive such training for free. However I am mngmt consultant working primarily with aviation issues and clients within the industry.
Very thankful for any suggestions on the subject.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northampton UK
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My understanding is that an R22 pilot can convert to R44 in around 5 hours (assuming all goes well) and that a CFI needs to assess and sign off each new type.
Could be wrong... keep threatening to convert but haven't yet!
RC
Could be wrong... keep threatening to convert but haven't yet!
RC
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Hey Kates
for all questions like this you will find the answer, (well as far as the UK interprets JAR) at
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS.PDF
for this question have a look at section F8
>Is there any minimum no. of hours req. for (the) type?
5 including LST (licence skills test) as RC says
>What kind of examination am in to? PC/Skill test?
LST is basically general handling to include all exercises required for initial PPL, but not navigation.
>What kind of examiner is required to execute the skill? PC-ONLY?
minimum of FE(H) who is authorised to do LST (initial issue) and LPC (renewals)
regards
CF
for all questions like this you will find the answer, (well as far as the UK interprets JAR) at
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS.PDF
for this question have a look at section F8
>Is there any minimum no. of hours req. for (the) type?
5 including LST (licence skills test) as RC says
>What kind of examination am in to? PC/Skill test?
LST is basically general handling to include all exercises required for initial PPL, but not navigation.
>What kind of examiner is required to execute the skill? PC-ONLY?
minimum of FE(H) who is authorised to do LST (initial issue) and LPC (renewals)
regards
CF
Join Date: Nov 2003
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HUMS in an R44 ?
A question for helicopter designers and operators....
What sort of maintenance cost savings might be achieved with a HUM system on a light helicopter, if any ?
Clearly (I think) there would be a safety benefit. But how about possible increases in component lifetimes, lifed components changing to on-condition and maybe even reduced insurance premiums ?
Just idle speculation, prompted by the recent R22 rotor blade life restrictions, and the observation that the electronics needed to perform HUM is quite straightforward. Certification is a different matter.....
What sort of maintenance cost savings might be achieved with a HUM system on a light helicopter, if any ?
Clearly (I think) there would be a safety benefit. But how about possible increases in component lifetimes, lifed components changing to on-condition and maybe even reduced insurance premiums ?
Just idle speculation, prompted by the recent R22 rotor blade life restrictions, and the observation that the electronics needed to perform HUM is quite straightforward. Certification is a different matter.....
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Isallobaric
You hit the nail right on the head. Monitoring systems are good, they improve safety, and if used properly they can give significant cost benefits (I won't bore you with how). BUT, certification is a key issue, and also all of the systems generate a certain amount of instrumentation errors, false alerts etc, in short, not good enough to support on condition maintenance just yet.
However people like my employers, Sikorsky, Smiths etc are striving to improve the systems. Maybe someday.
that the electronics needed to perform HUM is quite straightforward. Certification is a different matter.....
However people like my employers, Sikorsky, Smiths etc are striving to improve the systems. Maybe someday.
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if used properly they can give significant cost benefits (I won't bore you with how)
Here's my idea:
A low-cost HUM system for an R22/R44 is technologically quite straightforward - just a DSP and a few accelerometers, with some time-frequency analysis software. Such systems are widely available for monitoring machinery.
Price ? Well I can buy an EGT/CHT monitoring system for a six-cylinder fixed wing engine for about $5000, fully approved. I reckon this is about the same level of complexity as a simple HUM unit.
So let's say it's possible to sell an R22/R44 monitor for $10,000. Is it conceivable that maintenance savings over the life of the helicopter could pay for this ?
(To placate those who actually know about these systems - I realise that the above is highly speculative, I'm just trying to find out how many orders of magnitude I'm out by.)
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As with anything else, HUMS is a question of money.
Data collection, i.e. "Just a few accelerometers" and "some time frequency analysis software" Sure, cheap as chips. The key though is not just data acquisition, but processing, its what you do with it that makes all the difference.
For example, vibration as we know does not do your aircraft any good, so to minimise, first up, we make sure our rotor generated vibrations are at the absolute minimum, so you need RTB.
Next Transmission, do these aircraft suffer much in the way of defects? If yes, then you need a good monitoring technique, if not, then is it worth the investment?
Engines? The engine has been around for a long time, not the smoothest, but a pretty stable platform, so worth the cost of an engine monitoring unit? The fan can and does generate a lot of vibration, so a bit of fan balancing would be nice.
Now driveshafts? this is a good one on the robbies, do you want to monitor shaft vibration? I would suspect so, at various locations, not least around the drive belt assembly.
This is getting deeper and more expensive by the minute.. a good method of saving money is better maintenance planning, and spares provisoning. Reducing vibration will save you in the long term on spares provisioning through reduced wear rates, but better maintenance planning will reduce your downtime. So early warnings of a potential fault can allow this, so I guess we need all that engine and transmission data after all.
Component vibration level trending and fleet averaging is the simplest method of establishing a baseline, from which you can determine if something is going amiss, alternatively, the manufacturer can advise on vibration thresholds. Also are you going to sift through the data on a flight by flight basis or will you require software to spot threshold exceedances? You will also need a means of data archiving and storage.
It can be an expensive business, as no doubt Nick, Shawn and others will tell you. You need to be clear about what you want to achieve within your budget, and then decide if its actually financially viable. On a Robbie, I'm not so sure, but then from a safety point of view, I do believe that all helicopters should benefit from HUMS and what it can do, sadly I don't fix the prices, or I'd give it away.
Good luck.
Data collection, i.e. "Just a few accelerometers" and "some time frequency analysis software" Sure, cheap as chips. The key though is not just data acquisition, but processing, its what you do with it that makes all the difference.
For example, vibration as we know does not do your aircraft any good, so to minimise, first up, we make sure our rotor generated vibrations are at the absolute minimum, so you need RTB.
Next Transmission, do these aircraft suffer much in the way of defects? If yes, then you need a good monitoring technique, if not, then is it worth the investment?
Engines? The engine has been around for a long time, not the smoothest, but a pretty stable platform, so worth the cost of an engine monitoring unit? The fan can and does generate a lot of vibration, so a bit of fan balancing would be nice.
Now driveshafts? this is a good one on the robbies, do you want to monitor shaft vibration? I would suspect so, at various locations, not least around the drive belt assembly.
This is getting deeper and more expensive by the minute.. a good method of saving money is better maintenance planning, and spares provisoning. Reducing vibration will save you in the long term on spares provisioning through reduced wear rates, but better maintenance planning will reduce your downtime. So early warnings of a potential fault can allow this, so I guess we need all that engine and transmission data after all.
Component vibration level trending and fleet averaging is the simplest method of establishing a baseline, from which you can determine if something is going amiss, alternatively, the manufacturer can advise on vibration thresholds. Also are you going to sift through the data on a flight by flight basis or will you require software to spot threshold exceedances? You will also need a means of data archiving and storage.
It can be an expensive business, as no doubt Nick, Shawn and others will tell you. You need to be clear about what you want to achieve within your budget, and then decide if its actually financially viable. On a Robbie, I'm not so sure, but then from a safety point of view, I do believe that all helicopters should benefit from HUMS and what it can do, sadly I don't fix the prices, or I'd give it away.
Good luck.
R44 battery question
Has anyone got an R44 Raven (hyds, no fuel injection) with a battery in the ENGINE compartment, rather than under the console ?
Why do I ask ? If it's in the engine compartment there's better CG flexibility, especially with a porker like me in the flying seat.
The POH says the battery can be in either place, but with no indication of how to tell which S/Ns divide the two configurations.
And if anyone has had theirs moved from the nose to the engine compartment, care to tell how ?
Why do I ask ? If it's in the engine compartment there's better CG flexibility, especially with a porker like me in the flying seat.
The POH says the battery can be in either place, but with no indication of how to tell which S/Ns divide the two configurations.
And if anyone has had theirs moved from the nose to the engine compartment, care to tell how ?
Join Date: Sep 2002
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G'Day NR,
Dunno if this is of any use to you, but according to the R44 parts catalogue, serial numbers up to 0945 have the battery in the engine bay while 0945 and subsequent have it in the nose.
I had a quick look in the maintenance manual and couldnt find any further info, but it was only a quck look due to time constraints. I wouldn't expect any great dramas shifing the battery to the engine bay, however you would need to have a new load data sheet issued.
Hope this helps.
Dunno if this is of any use to you, but according to the R44 parts catalogue, serial numbers up to 0945 have the battery in the engine bay while 0945 and subsequent have it in the nose.
I had a quick look in the maintenance manual and couldnt find any further info, but it was only a quck look due to time constraints. I wouldn't expect any great dramas shifing the battery to the engine bay, however you would need to have a new load data sheet issued.
Hope this helps.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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There were "heat issues" with the battery in the back
Mr S!!
There sure are! have you had the problem of restarting soon after shutting down in an astro, my experience is that the battery is very lazy however wait 45 mins or so and its fine, im not an electrics wiz and im not sure of the cause. we replace our battery in our 44 every autumn (fall for you yanks out there!!) we use a concord xtra crank and it works just fine, however i like to have a fresh battery coming into winter as they can be real pigs to start when its cold, not sure about the injected version though.
cheers
Mr S
ive had numerous occasions where we try and start our astro after not long shutting down and its a real struggle she labours and moans, but wait 45 mins and its fine. i like to replace our batterys coming into winter with the concord xtra crank and it works fine, they can be a real pig to start in the cold but not sure how the injected versions go?
there is a real cg problem already with the astro's bit of fuel and fat asses in the cab and she has her nose down further than an echidna!!
cheers
Mr S
ive had numerous occasions where we try and start our astro after not long shutting down and its a real struggle she labours and moans, but wait 45 mins and its fine. i like to replace our batterys coming into winter with the concord xtra crank and it works fine, they can be a real pig to start in the cold but not sure how the injected versions go?
there is a real cg problem already with the astro's bit of fuel and fat asses in the cab and she has her nose down further than an echidna!!
cheers
Mr S!!
There sure are! have you had the problem of restarting soon after shutting down in an astro, my experience is that the battery is very lazy however wait 45 mins or so and its fine, im not an electrics wiz and im not sure of the cause. we replace our battery in our 44 every autumn (fall for you yanks out there!!) we use a concord xtra crank and it works just fine, however i like to have a fresh battery coming into winter as they can be real pigs to start when its cold, not sure about the injected version though.
cheers
Mr S
ive had numerous occasions where we try and start our astro after not long shutting down and its a real struggle she labours and moans, but wait 45 mins and its fine. i like to replace our batterys coming into winter with the concord xtra crank and it works fine, they can be a real pig to start in the cold but not sure how the injected versions go?
there is a real cg problem already with the astro's bit of fuel and fat asses in the cab and she has her nose down further than an echidna!!
cheers
Mr S
ive had numerous occasions where we try and start our astro after not long shutting down and its a real struggle she labours and moans, but wait 45 mins and its fine. i like to replace our batterys coming into winter with the concord xtra crank and it works fine, they can be a real pig to start in the cold but not sure how the injected versions go?
there is a real cg problem already with the astro's bit of fuel and fat asses in the cab and she has her nose down further than an echidna!!
cheers
So essentially the battery move was made because it was getting a bit warm, which isn't a problem on the R22 since the battery (if it's in the engine compartment) is in the free flow of air, and the engine is smaller.
So how about losing a bit more weight and putting a few ducts in the fairings ? Or am I being simplistic ?
So how about losing a bit more weight and putting a few ducts in the fairings ? Or am I being simplistic ?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Doesn't an R44 with floats become a Robinson R44 Clipper?
"The R44's exceptional design and proven performance make it ideal for a variety of private, business an utility applications. To allow extended flight over water, the R44 is available with either fixed or emergency pop out floats (R44 clipper). "
Both fixed and pop out.
"The R44's exceptional design and proven performance make it ideal for a variety of private, business an utility applications. To allow extended flight over water, the R44 is available with either fixed or emergency pop out floats (R44 clipper). "
Both fixed and pop out.
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You can't retro fit floats to the R44. But you can order the Clipper I or II with either utility floats or pop-outs. http://www.robinsonheli.com/Clipper.htm
And they don't make the Astro anymore.
And they don't make the Astro anymore.
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