Robinson R44
A couple of R44 questions
First - our maintenance organisation tells us that an initial 25 hour oil change, then a 50, then 50 hour intervals is fine.
We've had the oil change and 50 done somewhere else - more convenient - and and they've suggested oil changes every 25 hours. Any comments / experiences from the rest of you ?
Also, the aircraft is - despite gentle washing with water, chamois and sponge, starting to need a decent clean. What do you guys use - is there one good commercial product, or does Windowlene and Mr Muscle figure highly in your cleaning kit ?
We've had the oil change and 50 done somewhere else - more convenient - and and they've suggested oil changes every 25 hours. Any comments / experiences from the rest of you ?
Also, the aircraft is - despite gentle washing with water, chamois and sponge, starting to need a decent clean. What do you guys use - is there one good commercial product, or does Windowlene and Mr Muscle figure highly in your cleaning kit ?
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G'Day NRF,
IIRC if you run a full flow spin on oil filter, you can stretch your oil changes out to 50 hours. However, oil is fairly cheap and it would be definitely in the engines best interest to change it every 25 hours irrespective of how many filters you run.
We use truckwash on our 44. It doesn't do a bad job, it even gets most of the lead deposits off the aft cowl
Cheers
IIRC if you run a full flow spin on oil filter, you can stretch your oil changes out to 50 hours. However, oil is fairly cheap and it would be definitely in the engines best interest to change it every 25 hours irrespective of how many filters you run.
We use truckwash on our 44. It doesn't do a bad job, it even gets most of the lead deposits off the aft cowl
Cheers
Last edited by helimatt; 24th Jun 2004 at 09:14.
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A wise old engineer I once knew said: "Oil is cheap, metal is expensive."
Lycoming says 25hrs. They designed the thing. Why not trust what they say?
I recently checked over a R44 Astro that obviously had been run to 50hrs, albeit with top-ups. The oil had a distinct burnt smell to it. We didn't buy it!
Dan
Lycoming says 25hrs. They designed the thing. Why not trust what they say?
I recently checked over a R44 Astro that obviously had been run to 50hrs, albeit with top-ups. The oil had a distinct burnt smell to it. We didn't buy it!
Dan
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NRF
I would stick with the 25hrlys myself unless youve got a filter kit like HeliMatt has suggested.
The lycoming engine operation manual says for a 540 that at 75% power it should burn about 0.7 of a quart of oil per hour and this works out about true.
for the wash we use Truck wash also its good stuff and will do the job your looking for. windows we use a perspex cleaner or windex does the job fine!
all the best with your new machine!!
I would stick with the 25hrlys myself unless youve got a filter kit like HeliMatt has suggested.
The lycoming engine operation manual says for a 540 that at 75% power it should burn about 0.7 of a quart of oil per hour and this works out about true.
for the wash we use Truck wash also its good stuff and will do the job your looking for. windows we use a perspex cleaner or windex does the job fine!
all the best with your new machine!!
NRF
Go with what the lads are saying mate, your engine will love the 25 hr oil change, that will keep it gold and the wear and tear on your engine will be much less. Teepol Gold was always the best for cleaning but I think it has been bought by another company and they have changed the name of it and it's a bit how's your father now but if you can find any agents with the old stuff I would definetely grab it, failing that CT18 (truckwash as suggested) is the next best thing. Perspex cleaner made by Permatex comes in a square metal tin and it's worth its weight in gold. A company called Cyndan also makes a good perspex cleaner,you will find them easy enough on the net.
Good luck with the new rocket
Go with what the lads are saying mate, your engine will love the 25 hr oil change, that will keep it gold and the wear and tear on your engine will be much less. Teepol Gold was always the best for cleaning but I think it has been bought by another company and they have changed the name of it and it's a bit how's your father now but if you can find any agents with the old stuff I would definetely grab it, failing that CT18 (truckwash as suggested) is the next best thing. Perspex cleaner made by Permatex comes in a square metal tin and it's worth its weight in gold. A company called Cyndan also makes a good perspex cleaner,you will find them easy enough on the net.
Good luck with the new rocket
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This is what Lycoming suggests:
Cold wx starting
Cold wx starting
Red On, Green On
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Eclipse from www.chemiclean.co.uk/traffic.htm works well with a pressure washer.
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That guidance was obviously written for the stuck-wing. You can't access some of the areas for preheat (most notably the top of the engine). Also, the "alternate power supply" isn't exactly recommended by RHC. I don't suppose they have any rotor-craft specific recommendations?
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"works well with a pressure washer."
NEVER NEVER use a pressure washer on a 44 - factory warning. See POH for all cleaning tips - and be really careful what you use on the perspex. Windex & a rag + dried on bugs and crud = a lifetime of scratches.
NEVER NEVER use a pressure washer on a 44 - factory warning. See POH for all cleaning tips - and be really careful what you use on the perspex. Windex & a rag + dried on bugs and crud = a lifetime of scratches.
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Go with all that's been suggested above..... big plus on the 25hr change.
Only tip I can offer is to us car wax on the back panel... It makes life alot easier getting the exhaust soot off.
Have fun with your 44
Only tip I can offer is to us car wax on the back panel... It makes life alot easier getting the exhaust soot off.
Have fun with your 44
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Sorry about that RD,
I was on the run when I found that service instruction and didn't even have enough time to read.
For some reason I always assume that everybody in the aviation world is flying helicopters
Why would you want to fly anything else???
I was on the run when I found that service instruction and didn't even have enough time to read.
For some reason I always assume that everybody in the aviation world is flying helicopters
Why would you want to fly anything else???
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I would strongly suggest you follow the advice bellfest gives, especially if the other priming techniques are not working. I had this problem once and it ended up being the points out of sync a tad. It only seemed to be a problem on the first start othe day.
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They don't like it up 'em!
I would strongly advise AGAINST using any ether products to start an aircraft engine. The reason they seem to become dependant on it for starting when it's used too much is that it's so bloody explosive that it buggers the piston rings and so the engine looses a lot of it's compression. Have had to use it in the past to start a ratty old company van on frosty mornings - it used to make the engine knock like a ba$tard for a good 10 minutes after starting. When there's only 1 engine keeping you aloft, the last thing you want to do is pi$$ it off!! 
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Not sure about best priming route but on Astro, I & II, a technique borrowed from Enstrom pistons works a treat here in SA when we start at up to -5. After you've finished priming, lean the mixture and hold the throttle full open for 8 seconds. Then CLOSE IT AGAIN and start. Usually works here.
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I would suggest you have a look at what Bellfest recommended, it had nothing to do with aerostart. He suggested getting the mags and the starter vibrator checked. Good advice if you ask me!!
R44 Ringear
Has anyone had/know of any ring gear problems with R44's. A couple I have seen with not even a 100hrs tt have spat a few teeth off the ring gear. They both start well as far as I am aware and the lads flying haven't reported any starting mishaps. I haven't looked at the machines as yet but I'm guessing that the starters are not properly shimmed or it is an inherent problem with the 44, particularly being new with the belts gripping so much and loading it all up a bit more cause no one uses talcum powder to reduce the friction of new belts. What do you all think of the talcum powder thing?, anyone else do it/done it? I think it is as close to vital as #*%$ is to swearing
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No Problem with ring gear on our Astro.
however we have used talc on the belts in the past. I know when belts are new they are very tight, trick is to have a good strong battery.
we had a new set of belts replaced at about the 1000hr mark, they were a real tough set and took a long time to stretch, now about 300 hrs later they are just fine with a good,smooth engagement.
i still think that a strong battery will do the trick, we replace our batterys every year coming into winter.
however we have used talc on the belts in the past. I know when belts are new they are very tight, trick is to have a good strong battery.
we had a new set of belts replaced at about the 1000hr mark, they were a real tough set and took a long time to stretch, now about 300 hrs later they are just fine with a good,smooth engagement.
i still think that a strong battery will do the trick, we replace our batterys every year coming into winter.
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About 18 months ago from our 3 R44's we had ring gear problems with 2 of them and after replacing the ring gear found similar teeth stripping and slipping as you have mentioned.
Probably only got 300 hours from the new set of ring gear from both choppers, our engineers put it down to mismachined ring gear.
Robinson did not agree and consequently did not receive a credit.
After fitting the replacement set we kept a careful eye on the starter motor nuts (especially the one tucked in behind the starter motor and a nightmare to tighten).
We found the nuts were gradually loosening and we appropriated this to the ring gear slipping problems and since locktighting the nuts and have had no problems.
We have found it most beneficial to change the starter motor inconjunction with the ring gear.
Hope this helps (Our choppers were an Astro and a Clipper if this makes any difference)
Probably only got 300 hours from the new set of ring gear from both choppers, our engineers put it down to mismachined ring gear.
Robinson did not agree and consequently did not receive a credit.
After fitting the replacement set we kept a careful eye on the starter motor nuts (especially the one tucked in behind the starter motor and a nightmare to tighten).
We found the nuts were gradually loosening and we appropriated this to the ring gear slipping problems and since locktighting the nuts and have had no problems.
We have found it most beneficial to change the starter motor inconjunction with the ring gear.
Hope this helps (Our choppers were an Astro and a Clipper if this makes any difference)
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Things to make it go bang!
Experience (bitter and expensive) from Enstrom (non turbo, high compresssion) which are notorius for shedding ring gear teeth. I assume the R44 uses retard breakers and not impulse coupling.
1) anything to make it fire before the piston reaches top dead centre while the starter is engaged. Check mags to make points are ok, p leads are sound, capacitors are properly grounded, distributers work.
2) check starter vibrator to make sure normal points are inactive whilst starting.
3) check timing of retard points (Enstrom 1/2 degree after TDC)
4)Battery must be good so it has enough momentum to take it over TDC. If the piston is on the way up on compression when you disengage the starter, As soon as the switch goes from start to run the main points are activated. If this happens at the right point of the piston stroke, the cylinder may fire before the starter has dropped out of mesh. If this happens and causes a kick back - no more starter ring/starter motor.
5) Starter motor must not be lazy, for the same reason. I had one with an internal fault which made it slow. It killed the ring gear and smashed the motor casing.
If a cylinder fires before TDC whilst starting, it not only removes teeth from your ring gear but can also smash your starter motor to bits.
Experience (bitter and expensive) from Enstrom (non turbo, high compresssion) which are notorius for shedding ring gear teeth. I assume the R44 uses retard breakers and not impulse coupling.
1) anything to make it fire before the piston reaches top dead centre while the starter is engaged. Check mags to make points are ok, p leads are sound, capacitors are properly grounded, distributers work.
2) check starter vibrator to make sure normal points are inactive whilst starting.
3) check timing of retard points (Enstrom 1/2 degree after TDC)
4)Battery must be good so it has enough momentum to take it over TDC. If the piston is on the way up on compression when you disengage the starter, As soon as the switch goes from start to run the main points are activated. If this happens at the right point of the piston stroke, the cylinder may fire before the starter has dropped out of mesh. If this happens and causes a kick back - no more starter ring/starter motor.
5) Starter motor must not be lazy, for the same reason. I had one with an internal fault which made it slow. It killed the ring gear and smashed the motor casing.
If a cylinder fires before TDC whilst starting, it not only removes teeth from your ring gear but can also smash your starter motor to bits.
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R44 and Golf clubs?
Does any body know if it is possible / safe to fly in a R44 with a passanger and two sets of golf clubs across the rear seats? I was thinking that if the clubs were properly secured that it should not be a problem. Has anybody ever tried it?
Regards
Raven 2
Regards
Raven 2