From zero to CPL and FI: Cost in UK (Merged)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a hedgetrimmer with more grunt than a R22! Although even had to cancel Gardening work today cos of weather, and could do with the money!
Maddy, Ref Full time study, I have spoken to people who have done full time and got on well with it, but generally it's a minimum of nine months and leaves less flexibility for hour building. I was able to hour build at the drop of a hat when circumstances or aircraft availability allow, I believe it costs more too especially if you need to uproot to do the course.
Each to their own, some prefer classroom, I hadn't studied seriously since 18, but part of the reason I packed in my previous career was because I wasn't learning anything, so I found the learning fun.
Plus none of the ground school is really difficult, a few bits make you wonder until you get to the two week brush up, but they tend to clear up when they go through them, be aware there is a big volume of work. I can't overestimate the imortance of the on line question bank, there was a big difference in the brush up between those who had done it and those who hadn't.
Good luck
Maddy, Ref Full time study, I have spoken to people who have done full time and got on well with it, but generally it's a minimum of nine months and leaves less flexibility for hour building. I was able to hour build at the drop of a hat when circumstances or aircraft availability allow, I believe it costs more too especially if you need to uproot to do the course.
Each to their own, some prefer classroom, I hadn't studied seriously since 18, but part of the reason I packed in my previous career was because I wasn't learning anything, so I found the learning fun.
Plus none of the ground school is really difficult, a few bits make you wonder until you get to the two week brush up, but they tend to clear up when they go through them, be aware there is a big volume of work. I can't overestimate the imortance of the on line question bank, there was a big difference in the brush up between those who had done it and those who hadn't.
Good luck
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Excellent post Jemax, very inspirational. If I was hiring heli pilots / instructors, I'd certainly hire you.
Rare to come across someone with such UNFALTERING drive. Best of luck for your future.
ariel
Rare to come across someone with such UNFALTERING drive. Best of luck for your future.
ariel
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: leicester
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Jemax,
Just woundering what you meant by
"I hooked up with a more experienced mate who was also hourbuilding about 50 hours ahead and we could split workload"
If your "mate" is sitting in the right seat of the r22 and your in the left you cant record that as flying hours... can you???
Or did you just mean to ease testing flying conditions?
Thanks
Mady
Just woundering what you meant by
"I hooked up with a more experienced mate who was also hourbuilding about 50 hours ahead and we could split workload"
If your "mate" is sitting in the right seat of the r22 and your in the left you cant record that as flying hours... can you???
Or did you just mean to ease testing flying conditions?
Thanks
Mady
Guest
Posts: n/a
>"Going to states is a waste of time, by the time you have factored in VAT rebate it's not cheaper and people will look on you better if all your flying is in the theatre you operate in. Unless you want a holiday or to work out there."
That's rather an unfair blanket statement. Not everyone can afford UK hour building prices and a R44/B206 rating.
If you have no ties to the UK then going to the USA on a J1 visa can be the most attractive option to gain experience, plus it may open up other worldwide opportunities.
That's rather an unfair blanket statement. Not everyone can afford UK hour building prices and a R44/B206 rating.
If you have no ties to the UK then going to the USA on a J1 visa can be the most attractive option to gain experience, plus it may open up other worldwide opportunities.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the controller,
It could be argued that if you cannot afford to learn and hour build in the UK and get a 44 rating, then you cannot afford to become a CPL. I know that is controversial, but there are too many people out there with big loans and no licence.
Jemax,
Great post and my story is similar, although I was pre JAR.
All other aspiring North Sea pilots:
There is a rumour going around that some self improvers in the NS have not met expectations and have struggled with IR/twin type rating/multi IR conversion/line training/night deck landings. If you want to go North Sea you must speak to the companies and find out what they want in terms of training and experience.
Good luck and go for it, but make sure you do your research first.
It could be argued that if you cannot afford to learn and hour build in the UK and get a 44 rating, then you cannot afford to become a CPL. I know that is controversial, but there are too many people out there with big loans and no licence.
Jemax,
Great post and my story is similar, although I was pre JAR.
All other aspiring North Sea pilots:
There is a rumour going around that some self improvers in the NS have not met expectations and have struggled with IR/twin type rating/multi IR conversion/line training/night deck landings. If you want to go North Sea you must speak to the companies and find out what they want in terms of training and experience.
Good luck and go for it, but make sure you do your research first.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hold by statement about the states, I intend to fly in the UK for a while so wanted to build my experience here, you also have to factor in accomodation.
However a mate did go out there hooked up with the right people and has a plum job in Equador now, it's just my opinion. People say it's cheap there about £100 sterling self fly per hour, well best I was quoted here was £135 ex vat so choice is yours. Can be fun though I hear, oh and of course visiting the Robbo factory for the safety course is a must if you are over there.
Also R44 rating is not so much, if you consider the comparitive price vs self hire of a 22 which you'll have to do hour building anyway. £300 vs £150 for 5 hours and it helped me get about 15 R44 hours subsidised afterward and a type rating.
Ref hooking up with the mate we split the flying and did much longer flights, e.g first time across the channel together, over to Northern Ireland, plus it's a bit of company for a beer for the overnight stop.
Boomerangben, I have done my research ref N Sea, but appreciate the challenge and learning it involves.
Oh just to clear up it's 206 flying hours total not a 206 rating, I wish!
However a mate did go out there hooked up with the right people and has a plum job in Equador now, it's just my opinion. People say it's cheap there about £100 sterling self fly per hour, well best I was quoted here was £135 ex vat so choice is yours. Can be fun though I hear, oh and of course visiting the Robbo factory for the safety course is a must if you are over there.
Also R44 rating is not so much, if you consider the comparitive price vs self hire of a 22 which you'll have to do hour building anyway. £300 vs £150 for 5 hours and it helped me get about 15 R44 hours subsidised afterward and a type rating.
Ref hooking up with the mate we split the flying and did much longer flights, e.g first time across the channel together, over to Northern Ireland, plus it's a bit of company for a beer for the overnight stop.
Boomerangben, I have done my research ref N Sea, but appreciate the challenge and learning it involves.
Oh just to clear up it's 206 flying hours total not a 206 rating, I wish!
Last edited by jemax; 22nd Aug 2005 at 17:41.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Stuck In Sosua :-(
Age: 62
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Training Costs???
OK Ladies and Gentlemen
I know I'm gonna get blasted for this but I cannot seem to get a reliable answer from Flight Schools.
I wish to go from zero to FI and would like the cold hard facts about the costs involved for an average student (not just the minimum hours required per license and 'it's cheaper in the US especially if you do it all with us in one go' etc).
I would like to do it all in the UK using the same school (continuity etc and will also need to work to cover the costs of hours building and the courses after PPL(H)).
I would like to do as much of the ground school as possible at home unless some sections would be more beneficial with an instructor.
Any help in coming up with a costing would be grately appreciated and also what are the chances of any employment at the end of it all (part time or full time). Can ferrying jobs be obtained to bolster flying hours after PPL(H) or would you need CPL(H) status.
Thanks for your assistance
I know I'm gonna get blasted for this but I cannot seem to get a reliable answer from Flight Schools.
I wish to go from zero to FI and would like the cold hard facts about the costs involved for an average student (not just the minimum hours required per license and 'it's cheaper in the US especially if you do it all with us in one go' etc).
I would like to do it all in the UK using the same school (continuity etc and will also need to work to cover the costs of hours building and the courses after PPL(H)).
I would like to do as much of the ground school as possible at home unless some sections would be more beneficial with an instructor.
Any help in coming up with a costing would be grately appreciated and also what are the chances of any employment at the end of it all (part time or full time). Can ferrying jobs be obtained to bolster flying hours after PPL(H) or would you need CPL(H) status.
Thanks for your assistance
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: swedish lapland
Age: 50
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PPL(H) costs
I started my PPL the October 2003 and completed the course in June 2004. I was flying 1 to 2 hours every weekend at the same time as I was studying for the theory exams. Below are the total costs I had to pay then.
PPL Hours Flied:
Total Hours (Inc. Test) 49.2
PPL Total Costs:
Flying 11092 (£240 an hour)
Books 249
Written exams 140
R/T Oral exam 40
Flight Test 200
Issue PPL licence 149
Class 2 Medical 200
Travel 323
Total 12393
Notice that I was very lucky with the travel (Train and then cycled to the airport)
PPL Hours Flied:
Total Hours (Inc. Test) 49.2
PPL Total Costs:
Flying 11092 (£240 an hour)
Books 249
Written exams 140
R/T Oral exam 40
Flight Test 200
Issue PPL licence 149
Class 2 Medical 200
Travel 323
Total 12393
Notice that I was very lucky with the travel (Train and then cycled to the airport)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a post I put up a couple of months ago, I hope it helps
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...nking+of+doing
I am starting FI course on 2nd Nov and the company I am going with are going to use me once I have completed course, but I go into it with eyes open and we'll see what actually happens.
Good luck, back of a fag packet to FI £70k plus loss of income, thats with about 35 hours scrounged/free/freeish/cost shared
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...nking+of+doing
I am starting FI course on 2nd Nov and the company I am going with are going to use me once I have completed course, but I go into it with eyes open and we'll see what actually happens.
Good luck, back of a fag packet to FI £70k plus loss of income, thats with about 35 hours scrounged/free/freeish/cost shared
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Stuck In Sosua :-(
Age: 62
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I knew it was going to be a long haul to get to FI. I have the funds for the PPL(H) without working, so can concentrate on the first part unimpeded from there stuff gets a bit more difficult.
I suppose I'll have to go back to work and try and hour build somehow until I can get onto the CPL(H), and I'll have to do that part time (1 Hour a week maybe if I'm lucky). Hour build again and then the FI course.
A couple of the schools that I've looked at use the Schwiezer 300 which is supposed to be a bit more forgiving than an R22. I will need a type rating for the R22 though as most schools use that helo (although I've heard some scary stories about that twitchy little beast). I also want a type rating on the R44.
The ideal thing for me would be, do the PPL(H); get a full time job as ground crew at a school; beg hours; get up to FI and then move up to flight staff at the same school. (I can dream can't I?);-)
By the way I live in Yorkshire so any recommendations in that area would be appreciated if you know of any decent schools there.
By the way Jemax, who did you ride for as I'm a huge fan of BSB, used to have an R1 until one of my mates was killed and another trashed himself (stick to the tracks I say).
I suppose I'll have to go back to work and try and hour build somehow until I can get onto the CPL(H), and I'll have to do that part time (1 Hour a week maybe if I'm lucky). Hour build again and then the FI course.
A couple of the schools that I've looked at use the Schwiezer 300 which is supposed to be a bit more forgiving than an R22. I will need a type rating for the R22 though as most schools use that helo (although I've heard some scary stories about that twitchy little beast). I also want a type rating on the R44.
The ideal thing for me would be, do the PPL(H); get a full time job as ground crew at a school; beg hours; get up to FI and then move up to flight staff at the same school. (I can dream can't I?);-)
By the way I live in Yorkshire so any recommendations in that area would be appreciated if you know of any decent schools there.
By the way Jemax, who did you ride for as I'm a huge fan of BSB, used to have an R1 until one of my mates was killed and another trashed himself (stick to the tracks I say).
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jemax
Good post, its not easy going the self study route and to have completed it in 1 year is very commendable. You mentioned a couple of good point for those wishing to take that route. I must agree with the point on training in the states, as an employer / someone who sees a great deal of CV's my senior guys always frowned upon those who had trained and hour built in the states, 'fair weather fliers' as I kept getting told!! The british weather, as you rightly pointed out, can throw some pretty interesting situations at you very quickly and it is those who unfortunately push on into worsening conditions or IMC that create the accidents - a field is always a better option.
Another useful titbit for those with low hours (which includes myself!) is to try and get associated with an AOC company where you can either, if you are really lucky, dead leg or at least go on trips to areas you have not been before - we have always had problems with the low time flyers who do not hours build away from base i.e. train at an airfield and fly 100 hours at that airfield. It will always lead to problems in Nav and confidence. There are a number of operators who I am sure would welcome those who are interested. This also gives those who have not had experience in the commercial world a chance to see what really goes on - for those thathave been through it will more than likely agree that the training, irrespective of how good the school is, can never really prepare you for public transport flying - passengers can be a strange addition to the cockpit environment.
All in all flying is great fun and a hell of a way to earn a living (for those that can), the very best of luck to all looking for work or going through the fun of the CPL!!
Furthermore for those going on the self study route (fixed or rotary) - I cannot recommend Bristol Ground School strongly enough, Alex and the team are fantastic and the notes are relatively easy to read. They also have fantastic feedback so you should be pretty well prepared for the exams.
Good post, its not easy going the self study route and to have completed it in 1 year is very commendable. You mentioned a couple of good point for those wishing to take that route. I must agree with the point on training in the states, as an employer / someone who sees a great deal of CV's my senior guys always frowned upon those who had trained and hour built in the states, 'fair weather fliers' as I kept getting told!! The british weather, as you rightly pointed out, can throw some pretty interesting situations at you very quickly and it is those who unfortunately push on into worsening conditions or IMC that create the accidents - a field is always a better option.
Another useful titbit for those with low hours (which includes myself!) is to try and get associated with an AOC company where you can either, if you are really lucky, dead leg or at least go on trips to areas you have not been before - we have always had problems with the low time flyers who do not hours build away from base i.e. train at an airfield and fly 100 hours at that airfield. It will always lead to problems in Nav and confidence. There are a number of operators who I am sure would welcome those who are interested. This also gives those who have not had experience in the commercial world a chance to see what really goes on - for those thathave been through it will more than likely agree that the training, irrespective of how good the school is, can never really prepare you for public transport flying - passengers can be a strange addition to the cockpit environment.
All in all flying is great fun and a hell of a way to earn a living (for those that can), the very best of luck to all looking for work or going through the fun of the CPL!!
Furthermore for those going on the self study route (fixed or rotary) - I cannot recommend Bristol Ground School strongly enough, Alex and the team are fantastic and the notes are relatively easy to read. They also have fantastic feedback so you should be pretty well prepared for the exams.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Stockport UK
Age: 51
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it really that much ?
Hi all,
Just been on the phone to "fast helicopters" at shoreham enquiring about working my way up the ladder from PPL(H) to getting my CPL(H) and IR course.
I was shocked when the person I spoke to said that when it comes to getting my IR course...it costs about £40k alone !
Is this average or normal ? does anyone know anyone cheaper for the IR course and if so, are they as good ? I just dont know how I could get that sort of money in a short period of time.
Just been on the phone to "fast helicopters" at shoreham enquiring about working my way up the ladder from PPL(H) to getting my CPL(H) and IR course.
I was shocked when the person I spoke to said that when it comes to getting my IR course...it costs about £40k alone !
Is this average or normal ? does anyone know anyone cheaper for the IR course and if so, are they as good ? I just dont know how I could get that sort of money in a short period of time.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Berkshire
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IR
I'll add my two pennies until someone else comes on and gives you chapter and verse..... but yes, doesn't sound 2 far off.
Thought that probably includes your type conversion.
IR in UK (JAA) land, is generally done on twin engine turbine (with one or 2 exceptions) conversion to type in that costs circa £10k, then £30k for the rating itself on the twin (including sim time)...lets hope you get through first time on min hours !!
Thought that probably includes your type conversion.
IR in UK (JAA) land, is generally done on twin engine turbine (with one or 2 exceptions) conversion to type in that costs circa £10k, then £30k for the rating itself on the twin (including sim time)...lets hope you get through first time on min hours !!
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
£40k is about right and probably assumes you get through in minimum hours and, of course, doesn't include the test fees which are over £1k.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Retired to Bisley from the small African nation
Age: 67
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IR Costs
Hi
No posts here for nearly a year so seeking some up-to-date advice.
I'm soon-to-be-ex-military, a bit over 6000 hrs rotary, mostly SAR. I have a UK ATPL(H) and could probably renew my S61N rating the same way I got it on a Sea King.
The questions: To improve my employability, what's the best use of time and money - FI or IR or a type rating on something that will open a vfr job? What's the cheapest way to an IR (if Aunty Betty will let me, can it be done on a mil ac)?
I'm reading all the info and starting to ask around, but would appreciate good advice from those already in the business.
thanks
Sven
No posts here for nearly a year so seeking some up-to-date advice.
I'm soon-to-be-ex-military, a bit over 6000 hrs rotary, mostly SAR. I have a UK ATPL(H) and could probably renew my S61N rating the same way I got it on a Sea King.
The questions: To improve my employability, what's the best use of time and money - FI or IR or a type rating on something that will open a vfr job? What's the cheapest way to an IR (if Aunty Betty will let me, can it be done on a mil ac)?
I'm reading all the info and starting to ask around, but would appreciate good advice from those already in the business.
thanks
Sven
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Leeds, England
Age: 34
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PPL(H) Funding
Hi, I have been wanting to do my PPL(H) for quite a while now and being a helicopter pilot is the only career path that I can see myself doing in the future. However, there is that one small issue of finding the money to do the training. As I am only 20 years old I don't have much in terms of 'life' savings, especially not the required £10-12k, so I am struggling to see where the money is going to come from. Do any of you who have already done the training have any tips for me? How did you go about funding your PPL(H)??
Thanks.
Thanks.
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I worked hard at school and univeristy, got a good job for maximum income with minimum effort and saved. But then, I was too old to join the armed forces.
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
