ATPL/CPL Training: Ground School topics
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 224
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From: UK
I did the Cabair correspondence course a few years ago and it was ok. Passed first time with a high average. I had some experience of the Bristol FS JAR version and that was good also. Distance learning requires much self discipline, but if you have the time and one or two suplementary books (eg Wagentdonk and Shaun Coles book) it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Joined: Jul 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 57
From: UK
Nice Puppies,
I'm afraid that I've got to take exception when you say that 'heli theory instruction was pants' at Oxford. Unless things have changed, the theory instruction is normally given by Andy G. And as anybody who knows him will confirm, Andy has probably forgotten more about helicopters and the theory behind them than many of us will probably ever know.
And as for 'passed it through sheer hard work and and some extra tuition.'... Erm, were you expecting to be spoon-fed the information? Of course it's going to require a level of self study on your part. Wagtendonk has got most of the answers.
Good luck anyway in the States. I notice from your profile that you've got an ATPL(H) on the R22. Impressive!
Anyway, apologies for the thread creep and back to the original topic. Pilot Ground Training have recently started up at Kemble and have been getting good reports over on the Wannabes forum. They are run by a number of ex-Oxford instructors. Try giving them a call. (And no, I've got no connection to them).
Hope this helps.
B73
I'm afraid that I've got to take exception when you say that 'heli theory instruction was pants' at Oxford. Unless things have changed, the theory instruction is normally given by Andy G. And as anybody who knows him will confirm, Andy has probably forgotten more about helicopters and the theory behind them than many of us will probably ever know.
And as for 'passed it through sheer hard work and and some extra tuition.'... Erm, were you expecting to be spoon-fed the information? Of course it's going to require a level of self study on your part. Wagtendonk has got most of the answers.
Good luck anyway in the States. I notice from your profile that you've got an ATPL(H) on the R22. Impressive!
Anyway, apologies for the thread creep and back to the original topic. Pilot Ground Training have recently started up at Kemble and have been getting good reports over on the Wannabes forum. They are run by a number of ex-Oxford instructors. Try giving them a call. (And no, I've got no connection to them).
Hope this helps.
B73
Last edited by Bravo73; 11th April 2005 at 19:01.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: uk
ouch
ouch!
wasnt getting personal or mentioning names, just telling it how it is.
As its clearly important to you old buddy am current on R22,R44,S300....will keep you posted on my progress....one day i could be as great as you?
In my humble opinion and for all its worth i agree about Kemble, sounds like a new option worth a look.
wasnt getting personal or mentioning names, just telling it how it is.
As its clearly important to you old buddy am current on R22,R44,S300....will keep you posted on my progress....one day i could be as great as you?
In my humble opinion and for all its worth i agree about Kemble, sounds like a new option worth a look.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: England
popa'schopper
The new ground school course at Dragon is purely for CPL (H).
Only nine exams and more related to Heli's.
As with lionco - not related to Dragon but have spoken with them as i'm in a similar boat to you - but worth knowing for us Rotorheads
The new ground school course at Dragon is purely for CPL (H).
Only nine exams and more related to Heli's.
As with lionco - not related to Dragon but have spoken with them as i'm in a similar boat to you - but worth knowing for us Rotorheads
Joined: Jul 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 57
From: UK
Sorry for putting your nose out of joint, NicePuppies, but it's just that I try not to claim something that I'm not. My manner can seem a little brusque at times in printed word. It's not meant to be.
FYI, (in JAAland at least), an ATPL(H) involves lots of hours, an IR and multi-crew time (tricky on an R22, or any single piston for that matter). A complete answer of what is needed can be found in LASORS. I suspect that you're a lowly CPL like the rest of us (with ATPL theory credits)!
Fly safe,
B73
FYI, (in JAAland at least), an ATPL(H) involves lots of hours, an IR and multi-crew time (tricky on an R22, or any single piston for that matter). A complete answer of what is needed can be found in LASORS. I suspect that you're a lowly CPL like the rest of us (with ATPL theory credits)!
Fly safe,
B73
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: uk
No probs
B73
I see! But i thought the querry WAS about ATPL groundschool?...which ive done.
Wasnt trying to pretend am anything im not, and as far as i can see i havent?
LASORS ...i thought that was what they shave with in japan? thanks for that must get a LASORS....do they sell them in hardback? RSVP
ps nose is small but perfectly formed.....just checked
I see! But i thought the querry WAS about ATPL groundschool?...which ive done.
Wasnt trying to pretend am anything im not, and as far as i can see i havent?
LASORS ...i thought that was what they shave with in japan? thanks for that must get a LASORS....do they sell them in hardback? RSVP
ps nose is small but perfectly formed.....just checked
Joined: Jul 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 57
From: UK
This is really detracting from the topic but here goes, NicePuppies:
Wasnt trying to pretend am anything im not, and as far as i can see i havent? Well, your profile (as no doubt everybody has had a look now) states under 'Licence Type': ATPL(H). It doesn't really matter on the grand scheme of things, but do you hold an ATPL(H)? Please don't confuse it with either a CPL(H) or a PPL(H). These things are important to pendants like me.
And I'm sure the CAA can provide you with a hardback version of LASORS, if you're willing to pay for it. It's always just easier to download the pdf version from caa.co.uk. I should, of course, provide you with a link to help you but frankly I can't be bothered to do the search for you. I'm sure that you can manage by yourself.
Back to the original topic (once again). If I was to rank the various schools according to personal experience and anecdotal evidence (ie what I've heard on the grapevine) then in my opinion, I would rank them as follows:
Residential:
1. Oxford (Old and established, might be faltering at the last fence).
2. PGT @ Kemble (Young filly, ridden by ex-Oxford jockeys).
3. Cabair (Rank outsider)
Distance Learning
1. BGS (Out in front by a length. Favourite with the crowds).
2. Oxford (see above).
3= Cabair & PGT. (Not even sure if they are in this race).
This is all, of course, IMHO.
B73
Wasnt trying to pretend am anything im not, and as far as i can see i havent? Well, your profile (as no doubt everybody has had a look now) states under 'Licence Type': ATPL(H). It doesn't really matter on the grand scheme of things, but do you hold an ATPL(H)? Please don't confuse it with either a CPL(H) or a PPL(H). These things are important to pendants like me.
And I'm sure the CAA can provide you with a hardback version of LASORS, if you're willing to pay for it. It's always just easier to download the pdf version from caa.co.uk. I should, of course, provide you with a link to help you but frankly I can't be bothered to do the search for you. I'm sure that you can manage by yourself.
Back to the original topic (once again). If I was to rank the various schools according to personal experience and anecdotal evidence (ie what I've heard on the grapevine) then in my opinion, I would rank them as follows:
Residential:
1. Oxford (Old and established, might be faltering at the last fence).
2. PGT @ Kemble (Young filly, ridden by ex-Oxford jockeys).
3. Cabair (Rank outsider)
Distance Learning
1. BGS (Out in front by a length. Favourite with the crowds).
2. Oxford (see above).
3= Cabair & PGT. (Not even sure if they are in this race).
This is all, of course, IMHO.
B73
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 1
From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Popa,
Can I suggest that you give them all call? Have a chat; they'll be able to explain how their courses operate and to what extent the exams are helicopter-specific.
I spoke to Alex Whittingham of Bristol a while and found him very helpful and informative. Atlantic Flight Training were similarly informative when I chatted to them at the London Airshow.
My dilemma is whether to do ATPL or CPL exams. But once I have made that decision, I'll be 'phoning or visiting each of the schools.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Can I suggest that you give them all call? Have a chat; they'll be able to explain how their courses operate and to what extent the exams are helicopter-specific.
I spoke to Alex Whittingham of Bristol a while and found him very helpful and informative. Atlantic Flight Training were similarly informative when I chatted to them at the London Airshow.
My dilemma is whether to do ATPL or CPL exams. But once I have made that decision, I'll be 'phoning or visiting each of the schools.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
From: SE England
Whirlygig's got the answer - visit them, talk to them and make your mind up on that basis.
I took a trip up to Dragon Helicopters, Sheffield, to chat to them about their new CPL(H) course. It seemed to fit the bill for me as I can never envisage flying multi-crew, IFR etc. I was impressed with their attitude, setup and the books which are written by Bristol Ground School, so I have taken the plunge. They had also taken the trouble to have a set of notes ready for my perusal and were nice people - customer care goes a long way in my books.
Not sure if I'll be quite so pleased when I get the results of my first progress test though...
I took a trip up to Dragon Helicopters, Sheffield, to chat to them about their new CPL(H) course. It seemed to fit the bill for me as I can never envisage flying multi-crew, IFR etc. I was impressed with their attitude, setup and the books which are written by Bristol Ground School, so I have taken the plunge. They had also taken the trouble to have a set of notes ready for my perusal and were nice people - customer care goes a long way in my books.
Not sure if I'll be quite so pleased when I get the results of my first progress test though...
Guest
Posts: n/a
and don't forget when making a choice, that you get 3 years from your last exam pass to obtain an IR or your exams will all expire, and 7 years from your last exam pass to get your ATPL unfrozen - or yep, you've guessed it, you'll have to do them again ! ( well the extra ATPL portion ones in the latter case but ALMOST ALL OF THEM again for the IR ) BIG decision !! If you have a plank ticket it may well be worth getting a single engine IR to stop the exams expiring if you can't take the heli plunge for what ever reason - it's the cheapest way to buy yourself some time )
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 900
Likes: 26
From: The Wild West... and Oz
JAR theory
Question for the UK crowd. Is there a self-study kit available in the UK for the JAR CPL (H) exams? Books, practice exams, that sort of thing. Or does anyone have a recomended list?
Should be working soon in Europe on a 1 year local validation but need to sit the exams in the future. Any advice?
Cheers
BigMike
Should be working soon in Europe on a 1 year local validation but need to sit the exams in the future. Any advice?
Cheers
BigMike
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
2000 UKP.....!!!!!!!
It is time for you guys to take a page out of the American Taxpayers Handbook (1776 Edition). Revolt.....throw the bums out of office! The cost of aviation regulation is getting completely out of hand.
It is time for you guys to take a page out of the American Taxpayers Handbook (1776 Edition). Revolt.....throw the bums out of office! The cost of aviation regulation is getting completely out of hand.
Guest
Posts: n/a
You think that's bad. It's then £55 per exam (*9 for CPL *13 for ATPL), £674 for the CAA examiner for the day, £450 for a class 1 medical, and £174 on top of that for CPL license issue. That's before you've paid for any flying.
I think Dragon are the only ones doing the CPL(H) theory (9 exams) distance learning in the UK, and they are based on the Bristol notes. Everyone else does ATPL (13 exams with a lot of unnecessary FW stuff).
CAA = Cash Again & Again
I think Dragon are the only ones doing the CPL(H) theory (9 exams) distance learning in the UK, and they are based on the Bristol notes. Everyone else does ATPL (13 exams with a lot of unnecessary FW stuff).
CAA = Cash Again & Again
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
Likes: 1,072
From: Downeast
Hey Punt....don't forget that lovely renewal fee....what is it for an ATPL....600 UKP now?
Brits talk about gun violence in the USA....the only thing missing at the CAA is the gun.....it still amounts to armed robbery! At the very least it should be called extortion. Shows what government monopoly will do for you.
Brits talk about gun violence in the USA....the only thing missing at the CAA is the gun.....it still amounts to armed robbery! At the very least it should be called extortion. Shows what government monopoly will do for you.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 900
Likes: 26
From: The Wild West... and Oz
Thanks for the replies so far. The total price as quoted above, adds up to 3793 GBP. I now understand everyone heading to Oz or the US to learn. Where did the CAA come up with these prices from? Do licences cost more to print in the UK?
When I studied for the CPL theory in Oz I dragged out my old fixed-wing books and on the instructors advice bought the required helicopter manuals etc. Studied at home, then went off and sat the exam. Are you not allowed to do this in the UK? Do you have to do a distance course with a flight school?
Cheers BigMike
When I studied for the CPL theory in Oz I dragged out my old fixed-wing books and on the instructors advice bought the required helicopter manuals etc. Studied at home, then went off and sat the exam. Are you not allowed to do this in the UK? Do you have to do a distance course with a flight school?
Cheers BigMike