Anyone flown (or fly) the Huey?
One wonders about the width of the wings- did they need to have so much span to provide the necessary lift?
One wonders about the shape of the aft fuselage - did it help by providing additional lift? Or was it all fuel tank?
One wonders about that extended vertical fin and movable rudder???
One wonders about all those reinforcing ribs on the outside of the tailboom...well, no, come to think of it one does not have to wonder about those...
And one wonders about that "reverse camber" extra horizontal stab - was it necessary to keep the nose up at such high speed? Couldn't the adjustable "regular" stab have been rigged to do that? Did the B-model even have a movable stab or did that come later with the D-model? Looking at the angle that the engines are mounted at, that thing sure must have humped along at a fairly nose-down attitude.
One wonders why they didn't try to clean up that draggy airframe even a little bit (other than the landing gear crosstube fairings that Bell puts on and take off seemingly randomly).
And finally, one wonders how that puppy would do with a pair of Williams FJ22 engines mounted out there! Nevermind having a King Air that hovers, we'd have a Huey that goes like a Citation! That that, V-22!
One wonders about the shape of the aft fuselage - did it help by providing additional lift? Or was it all fuel tank?
One wonders about that extended vertical fin and movable rudder???
One wonders about all those reinforcing ribs on the outside of the tailboom...well, no, come to think of it one does not have to wonder about those...
And one wonders about that "reverse camber" extra horizontal stab - was it necessary to keep the nose up at such high speed? Couldn't the adjustable "regular" stab have been rigged to do that? Did the B-model even have a movable stab or did that come later with the D-model? Looking at the angle that the engines are mounted at, that thing sure must have humped along at a fairly nose-down attitude.
One wonders why they didn't try to clean up that draggy airframe even a little bit (other than the landing gear crosstube fairings that Bell puts on and take off seemingly randomly).
And finally, one wonders how that puppy would do with a pair of Williams FJ22 engines mounted out there! Nevermind having a King Air that hovers, we'd have a Huey that goes like a Citation! That that, V-22!
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That Huey was flown by a friend who passed away many years ago. Duane Simon was a great TP, and was the Army's experimental pilot at Ft. Eustus VA, his office was about 100 yards from the pad where the aircraft sits on display in the photos.
The fastest pure compound rotorcraft was the Sikorsky ABC, which flew at 299 mph back in about 1973. It was lifted by the rotor, and thrusted by its jet engines, and had no wings. I flew it a bit back then, it was a real kick.
The high speed rotorcraft catagories are numerous:
Helicopter (powered and lifted by the rotor)
Winged rotorcraft (powered by the rotor, lifted partially by a wing)
Compound rotorcraft (winged or not) powered partially by a thrust device like a prop or an engine
Tilt rotor powered by its propellor/rotors, lifted by its wings
and 2 or 3 devices that Dave jackson hasn't invented yet
The fastest pure compound rotorcraft was the Sikorsky ABC, which flew at 299 mph back in about 1973. It was lifted by the rotor, and thrusted by its jet engines, and had no wings. I flew it a bit back then, it was a real kick.
The high speed rotorcraft catagories are numerous:
Helicopter (powered and lifted by the rotor)
Winged rotorcraft (powered by the rotor, lifted partially by a wing)
Compound rotorcraft (winged or not) powered partially by a thrust device like a prop or an engine
Tilt rotor powered by its propellor/rotors, lifted by its wings
and 2 or 3 devices that Dave jackson hasn't invented yet
TPs out there, a question: What sort of effect do the stub wings (in these winged/compound helicopters) have on autorotation ?
I always thought that the wings reduce the rate of descent airflow;especially when at a lower speed entry into autorotation ? Yes, I know it is a high speed concept yet there must be some risk exposure to regular cruise flight before they lit the blue touch paper on the the thrust jets.
I always thought that the wings reduce the rate of descent airflow;especially when at a lower speed entry into autorotation ? Yes, I know it is a high speed concept yet there must be some risk exposure to regular cruise flight before they lit the blue touch paper on the the thrust jets.
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What really gets me is if all this high speed rotorcraft work was going on in the 60s and 70s, then why has nothing come to market? I can see gas guzzling pure-jet being a no commercial goer, but was there really no commercial incentive for faster point-to-point?
Lockheed XH-51 (186) Compound
Mart
Lockheed XH-51 (186) Compound
Mart
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No Gimicks
The others may be quick, but they all have gimmicks, stub wings, jet propulsion etc,etc,
for a pure helicopter you have to be quick to beat a lynx with composite blades.
just over 400 KPH ( 217 Kts ) world record set in August 1986 By G-Lynx
the same aircraft also managed turns at a sustained 60 deg angle of bank at 140 KTS with no hight loss.
Complete 360 deg roll in under 3.5 sec's
Complete 360 deg loop with a pitch rate of over 50 deg /sec
sideways flight to port and starboard at just over 55 Kts
as an all round performer I think it takes some beating, unless you know better !!!!
for a pure helicopter you have to be quick to beat a lynx with composite blades.
just over 400 KPH ( 217 Kts ) world record set in August 1986 By G-Lynx
the same aircraft also managed turns at a sustained 60 deg angle of bank at 140 KTS with no hight loss.
Complete 360 deg roll in under 3.5 sec's
Complete 360 deg loop with a pitch rate of over 50 deg /sec
sideways flight to port and starboard at just over 55 Kts
as an all round performer I think it takes some beating, unless you know better !!!!
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316 mph is nothing. This helicopter flew so fast that its rotor blew off.
Pictures don't lie.
Before the flight:
After the flight:
It's very very 'Top Secret'. Nick could tell us more about it, but he'd loose his pension.
Pictures don't lie.
Before the flight:
After the flight:
It's very very 'Top Secret'. Nick could tell us more about it, but he'd loose his pension.
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Dave,
Looks impressive, but still a hybrid concept, jet engines, stub wings etc, lets see real utility helicopter that can beat the lynx all round performance.
By the way, it must have been a quick flight though, it not only lost its rotors but its paintwork also peeled off.
Looks impressive, but still a hybrid concept, jet engines, stub wings etc, lets see real utility helicopter that can beat the lynx all round performance.
By the way, it must have been a quick flight though, it not only lost its rotors but its paintwork also peeled off.
as an all round performer I think it takes some beating, unless you know better !!!!
It may be a kick to fly and goes fast and does fancy loop the loops...but it does have some other shortcomings does it not?
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Germans, Norwegians and the Dutch all come to mind. Only the naval version though.
Something else I always wanted to know is why are the naval lynx's wheels at a funny angle, with each pointing to the side?
Something else I always wanted to know is why are the naval lynx's wheels at a funny angle, with each pointing to the side?
No good ...I have to respond..
1) How long before the Bell 533 is scrapped due to a lack of TLC.Doesn't the US Army ever learn ?
2) The Sikorsky RSRA/S-72 never flew as intended and was last seen in open storage at the Fort Rucker Museum campus..see 1) above.
3) The Sikorsky ABC is also at Rucker and I believe suffered some instability issues due to the rounded fuselage.
4)Navy Lynx wheels rotate and lock to stop it rolling off the deck.
1) How long before the Bell 533 is scrapped due to a lack of TLC.Doesn't the US Army ever learn ?
2) The Sikorsky RSRA/S-72 never flew as intended and was last seen in open storage at the Fort Rucker Museum campus..see 1) above.
3) The Sikorsky ABC is also at Rucker and I believe suffered some instability issues due to the rounded fuselage.
4)Navy Lynx wheels rotate and lock to stop it rolling off the deck.
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The Need for Speed
Some people consider the intermeshing configuration to be slow. This is because Charles Kaman, with his limited $7,000.00, took it in that direction. He could not confront the well-financed Sikorsky head to head.
Perhaps the past does hold the secret to the future. The French also had little money for aeronautics after WW II. However, it is claimed that the SNCAC NC 2001 had retractable landing gear and a cruising speed of 245 km/hr. Not bad for a 1946 pure helicopter.
Perhaps the past does hold the secret to the future. The French also had little money for aeronautics after WW II. However, it is claimed that the SNCAC NC 2001 had retractable landing gear and a cruising speed of 245 km/hr. Not bad for a 1946 pure helicopter.
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Originally Posted by SASless
What is the availability rate for the Lynx.....and the accident rate?
It may be a kick to fly and goes fast and does fancy loop the loops...but it does have some other shortcomings does it not?
It may be a kick to fly and goes fast and does fancy loop the loops...but it does have some other shortcomings does it not?
Accident rate. Not as bad as a Blackhawk
As for operators. A few do use them;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Lynx
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Originally Posted by Dave Jackson
316 mph is nothing. This helicopter flew so fast that its rotor blew off.
However, it is claimed that the SNCAC NC 2001 had retractable landing gear and a cruising speed of 245 km/hr.
Mart
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Huey Qs
Hi, I am a writer of two published novels, Pirates of Pensacola and Gus Openshaw's Whale-Killing Journal. My third involves a Huey that is fired upon by a Barrett sniper rifle, like those used in Iraq. To anyone who has ever had the experience of flying through such heavy fire, I would like to know what it feels, sounds and looks like to be struck. And I'd be much obliged.
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Can I start the thread-creep early? By 'heavy fire' do you mean large-cal? I wouldn't imagine a sniper rifle has a 'full auto' setting. In that sense, surely you'd get heavy fire from something like an AK.
Heavy Fire?
Google search "LZ Lolo" and read some of the accounts of that day.
http://www.174ahc.org/lolo-pix.htm
An excerpt from one pilot's account....
http://www.174ahc.org/lolo-pix.htm
An excerpt from one pilot's account....
We stayed low-level most of the time. I remember making two false inserts. I think the first few ships were involved in these. Then we got down to the real thing. I listened to Dan talk with the C&C (Command and Control helicopter--also called the AMC) until he finally identified the LZ. No smoke to identify a secure LZ. I remember thinking, "That briefing was bogus!"
I told my co-pilot to get on the controls with me in case things got bad. I watched Dan go in but didn't see him take any fire. I was 20 to 30 seconds behind him. Just as he was leaving and starting to talk on the radio, we got real busy! We were about 100 feet up when the windshield explodes and I take three rounds in the chicken plate and three more in the sliding armored plate on my seat. They continue to rake the left side of the Huey.
The crew chief, Johnny Blackburn, yells that he has been hit! Next the tail rotor gets shot out because we start to spin, not fast but we were spinning. I decided that we'd try to fly back to Khe Sanh rather than attempt to land in the LZ without a tail rotor. So I set up to keep flying rather than touch down. Just as we pass over the LZ, the hydraulics go out. I was glad the co-pilot was on the controls with me. We picked up a little airspeed, maybe 40 knots and the tail is starting to streamline some when the engine quits. With only jungle to the front, we give it hard left cyclic to try to get back near the LZ. We were coming in about 45 degrees to the LZ and were getting low, maybe 10 feet or so, when the transmission seized. We fell the rest of the way and the ship crashed on its side. The co-pilot and I climbed out through the back.
I told my co-pilot to get on the controls with me in case things got bad. I watched Dan go in but didn't see him take any fire. I was 20 to 30 seconds behind him. Just as he was leaving and starting to talk on the radio, we got real busy! We were about 100 feet up when the windshield explodes and I take three rounds in the chicken plate and three more in the sliding armored plate on my seat. They continue to rake the left side of the Huey.
The crew chief, Johnny Blackburn, yells that he has been hit! Next the tail rotor gets shot out because we start to spin, not fast but we were spinning. I decided that we'd try to fly back to Khe Sanh rather than attempt to land in the LZ without a tail rotor. So I set up to keep flying rather than touch down. Just as we pass over the LZ, the hydraulics go out. I was glad the co-pilot was on the controls with me. We picked up a little airspeed, maybe 40 knots and the tail is starting to streamline some when the engine quits. With only jungle to the front, we give it hard left cyclic to try to get back near the LZ. We were coming in about 45 degrees to the LZ and were getting low, maybe 10 feet or so, when the transmission seized. We fell the rest of the way and the ship crashed on its side. The co-pilot and I climbed out through the back.
Last edited by SASless; 15th Apr 2006 at 11:07.
Cockpit tape recordings during time of Lolo
This link will take you to a site that describes Operation Lam Son 719 which LZ Lolo was part of.
There is some very good cockpit recordings of radio transmissions of aircraft hit and going down....aircraft with wounded aboard aborting the assault and heading for safer places.
http://www.a101avn.org/LamSon719.html
There is some very good cockpit recordings of radio transmissions of aircraft hit and going down....aircraft with wounded aboard aborting the assault and heading for safer places.
http://www.a101avn.org/LamSon719.html
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Will PM you.
S/less: Good link and great quote: "The operation was conceived in doubt and assailed by skepticism, preceded in confusion".
S/less: Good link and great quote: "The operation was conceived in doubt and assailed by skepticism, preceded in confusion".
Last edited by petitfromage; 19th Apr 2006 at 03:13.