Would you become a professional helicopter pilot again?
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Advice on my mid life crisis
Currently I have all the flying ability of the average house brick! I'm 28,bored with what I currently do and I'm now actively looking towards getting my CPL(H).
I've looked at the Integrated ab-initio courses but in reality I need to continue working and I've just about settled on the Modular route.I've spoken to my local (South Coast) schools and have my preferences and am waiting for the Cat 1 Medical at the end of May before going further.
Each school sings the virtues of either training method, training machines and how to most wisely use the ' hours building' section before the proper CPL course.
I've saved,begged and borrowed most of the cash required but what I'm really lacking are plain and simple views on how best to make the most productive use of it( without the money based advice of the schools).Are there any schools that come recommended?? I hear rumours of tax relief with training costs but the tax office and other 'state' offices only scratch their heads.I know it's not gonna be easy but I'm still determined to make a go of it.All comments and views gratefully received.Cheers.
I've looked at the Integrated ab-initio courses but in reality I need to continue working and I've just about settled on the Modular route.I've spoken to my local (South Coast) schools and have my preferences and am waiting for the Cat 1 Medical at the end of May before going further.
Each school sings the virtues of either training method, training machines and how to most wisely use the ' hours building' section before the proper CPL course.
I've saved,begged and borrowed most of the cash required but what I'm really lacking are plain and simple views on how best to make the most productive use of it( without the money based advice of the schools).Are there any schools that come recommended?? I hear rumours of tax relief with training costs but the tax office and other 'state' offices only scratch their heads.I know it's not gonna be easy but I'm still determined to make a go of it.All comments and views gratefully received.Cheers.
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Hi, Q (could be a pun somewhere)
From what I know about the CPL(H), you have a few directions you could choose, I understand that you could obtain your PPL, then build up your hours to 155 P1, you could undertake a modular course and a further 30hrs of CPL fly/training, that if you was to be successful, would give you the CPL(H)(R) the R is for Restricted to flying in the UK untill another milestone of hours have passed then you become CPL(H) automatically, this was explained to me by a CFi who is looking to promote the CPL(H)(R), I was a late( in years) starter, but next to fine wine, good food and a buxom lass on my arm, it beats everything, set a target for yourself, and don't deviate, good luck, most of all, if you start, NEVER TAKE RISK'S
From what I know about the CPL(H), you have a few directions you could choose, I understand that you could obtain your PPL, then build up your hours to 155 P1, you could undertake a modular course and a further 30hrs of CPL fly/training, that if you was to be successful, would give you the CPL(H)(R) the R is for Restricted to flying in the UK untill another milestone of hours have passed then you become CPL(H) automatically, this was explained to me by a CFi who is looking to promote the CPL(H)(R), I was a late( in years) starter, but next to fine wine, good food and a buxom lass on my arm, it beats everything, set a target for yourself, and don't deviate, good luck, most of all, if you start, NEVER TAKE RISK'S
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At age 28? There is a question? Sir, I have become one of the people who believe anyone your age should go straight to airplanes, get all the qualifications and certificates needed to earn a great job, get on the "ton-o-money" train, and then take up flying helicopters. This assumes you do not fly airplanes at the pay grade I've indicated.
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If you want to go for it be prepared!
As any heli pilot will tell you(ad nauseam)there is nothing like it.
It is very difficult to make a living as a low hour CPLH. Also you will need to budget to do an FI(R) course/FI because no-one will give you a job with 155 hrs
Currently there are way too many instructors trying to get work although I suspect that this will drop off fairly quickly.
I would recommend going to one of the larger schools(not SCabair)so that once you have got your PPL you will be able to get some cheap/Free flying doing positioning flights.
This used to be done by all the people trying to get the hours to do their AFI but now that they are out of the way the schools are dying for business.
If you are near London why not try Heliair at Denham 01895 835899
Good luck it has to be one of the most rewarding(not financially) jobs in the world
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Use it don't abuse it.
What day is it anyway?
As any heli pilot will tell you(ad nauseam)there is nothing like it.
It is very difficult to make a living as a low hour CPLH. Also you will need to budget to do an FI(R) course/FI because no-one will give you a job with 155 hrs
Currently there are way too many instructors trying to get work although I suspect that this will drop off fairly quickly.
I would recommend going to one of the larger schools(not SCabair)so that once you have got your PPL you will be able to get some cheap/Free flying doing positioning flights.
This used to be done by all the people trying to get the hours to do their AFI but now that they are out of the way the schools are dying for business.
If you are near London why not try Heliair at Denham 01895 835899
Good luck it has to be one of the most rewarding(not financially) jobs in the world
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Use it don't abuse it.
What day is it anyway?
Guest
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Thanks for the advice. No I'm not a fixed wing pilot.Have only ever really been interested in rotary craft.What are the postioning flights that you mention????
Had budgetted for the FI course.Should I hour build purely on the R22 or towards the end of the magical 155 hr goal, look towards gaining an intro into something a little bigger?? and if so what?
Had budgetted for the FI course.Should I hour build purely on the R22 or towards the end of the magical 155 hr goal, look towards gaining an intro into something a little bigger?? and if so what?
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Quidam,
I hope you know that you have to have 300 hours total flight time before you can do the FI course, so you have to get that 115 hours post CPL if you do it at the minimum of 185 to complete.
so that needs to be budgeted for because you will find it next to impossible to get commercial work onshore with 185 hours, your only option would be as co-pilot for one of the 2 north sea operators, whose demand is very cyclical, i.e they hardly recruited at all between 1998-2001, but they are at the moment, but who knows by the time you qualify, so to do a basic CPL is a high risk strategy, to get an FI rating is a lower risk strategy, I agree with whoever said before that the current surplus of instructors will reduce in the medium term.
you may well get positioning flights, but it would take forever to get 115 hours, because every operator trys to make every flight a revenue flight and only gives them away when there is no alternative.
if you want to know more, I can help you as I have got an ATPL(H), and an FI rating with more than 1000 hours instruction.if you want I can email you my phone number and I can tell you most of what you need to need to know.
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elpirata
I hope you know that you have to have 300 hours total flight time before you can do the FI course, so you have to get that 115 hours post CPL if you do it at the minimum of 185 to complete.
so that needs to be budgeted for because you will find it next to impossible to get commercial work onshore with 185 hours, your only option would be as co-pilot for one of the 2 north sea operators, whose demand is very cyclical, i.e they hardly recruited at all between 1998-2001, but they are at the moment, but who knows by the time you qualify, so to do a basic CPL is a high risk strategy, to get an FI rating is a lower risk strategy, I agree with whoever said before that the current surplus of instructors will reduce in the medium term.
you may well get positioning flights, but it would take forever to get 115 hours, because every operator trys to make every flight a revenue flight and only gives them away when there is no alternative.
if you want to know more, I can help you as I have got an ATPL(H), and an FI rating with more than 1000 hours instruction.if you want I can email you my phone number and I can tell you most of what you need to need to know.
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elpirata
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elpirata,
If you JUST want to instruct, but want to get paid for doing so, do you still have to do the CPL course? This has come up before, but I'm still receiving so many different answers that I'm even more confused than I was some time ago. My understanding is that you do, but I'm not sure. And how many of those 300 hours have to be P1, 100 or 200? And if you're not going to get paid with a basic CPL, does it matter in what order you do everything - hours building, CPL course, FI course?
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
If you JUST want to instruct, but want to get paid for doing so, do you still have to do the CPL course? This has come up before, but I'm still receiving so many different answers that I'm even more confused than I was some time ago. My understanding is that you do, but I'm not sure. And how many of those 300 hours have to be P1, 100 or 200? And if you're not going to get paid with a basic CPL, does it matter in what order you do everything - hours building, CPL course, FI course?
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
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whirlybird,
to instruct and be paid, you have to hold an actual physical CPL licence, have got 300 hours total flight time,of which at least 100 must be PIC, and then you can do the 30 hour FI course.
to instruct and not be paid, you can add an FI rating to a PPL as long as you have 200 hours PIC before you do the FI course, however, also you must have at least passed all the CPL ground exams, so I guess in your case the first option applies as you want to be paid.
let me know if does not make sense compared to what others have told you and I will try to resolve it.
it is my opinion that too many people give out info based on hearsay who have never even seen a copy of JAR FCL2 let alone actually looked inside it, and this leads to a lot of confusing misinformation.
it will probably turn out that I have got it wrong now, but I dont believe so based on the background reading I have done.
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elpirata
to instruct and be paid, you have to hold an actual physical CPL licence, have got 300 hours total flight time,of which at least 100 must be PIC, and then you can do the 30 hour FI course.
to instruct and not be paid, you can add an FI rating to a PPL as long as you have 200 hours PIC before you do the FI course, however, also you must have at least passed all the CPL ground exams, so I guess in your case the first option applies as you want to be paid.
let me know if does not make sense compared to what others have told you and I will try to resolve it.
it is my opinion that too many people give out info based on hearsay who have never even seen a copy of JAR FCL2 let alone actually looked inside it, and this leads to a lot of confusing misinformation.
it will probably turn out that I have got it wrong now, but I dont believe so based on the background reading I have done.
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elpirata
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elpirata,
Thanks a lot. That makes sense, and was roughly how I understood it too - until a few people tried to confuse me I didn't worry for a while, but having now passed around half the CPL ground exams it's all starting to seem quite important, as opposed to being something in the dim and distant future. One more thing - do you happen to know how many fixed wing hours, if any, can be counted towards that 300 hours TT/100 hours P1? Or even towards the 155 hours needed to do the CPL course?
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
Thanks a lot. That makes sense, and was roughly how I understood it too - until a few people tried to confuse me
I didn't worry for a while, but having now passed around half the CPL ground exams it's all starting to seem quite important, as opposed to being something in the dim and distant future. One more thing - do you happen to know how many fixed wing hours, if any, can be counted towards that 300 hours TT/100 hours P1? Or even towards the 155 hours needed to do the CPL course?------------------
Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
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Whirly :
Wasn't me that confused you, was it ? The relevant JARs for the FI(H) are at http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.2.335.htm and for the CPL(H) pre-requisites ( modular course ) see http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.2.155.htm.
[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 22 April 2001).]
Wasn't me that confused you, was it ? The relevant JARs for the FI(H) are at http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.2.335.htm and for the CPL(H) pre-requisites ( modular course ) see http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.2.155.htm.
[This message has been edited by The Nr Fairy (edited 22 April 2001).]
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Whirly,
I believe that the 300 hours and the 200 hours PIC that I talked about for instructing are on helicopters, but I am not sure about this and will have to check.
but anyhow having done the old AFIC course, what you want is to be very proficient flying yourself before you learn to teach others, so I would not recommend much aeroplane time at the expense of helicopter time even if you can get it much cheaper, because if they end up having to teach you how to fly on your FI course it will be a disaster, it is hard enough believe me.
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elpirata
I believe that the 300 hours and the 200 hours PIC that I talked about for instructing are on helicopters, but I am not sure about this and will have to check.
but anyhow having done the old AFIC course, what you want is to be very proficient flying yourself before you learn to teach others, so I would not recommend much aeroplane time at the expense of helicopter time even if you can get it much cheaper, because if they end up having to teach you how to fly on your FI course it will be a disaster, it is hard enough believe me.
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elpirata
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Elpirata,
Great.Any advice is greatly received I look forward to talking to you soon. My e mail is [email protected]
I know it's not gonna be easy or cheap,but compared to what I do at the moment I know that the grass is greener
Thanks to all that have replied
Great.Any advice is greatly received I look forward to talking to you soon. My e mail is [email protected]
I know it's not gonna be easy or cheap,but compared to what I do at the moment I know that the grass is greener
Thanks to all that have replied
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Nr Fairy,
No, you didn't confuse me, and thanks for those details - I'll print them out this time. I ignored them last time you told me and figured someone else should know, but everyone disagrees
Elpirata,
I'm not looking to get more fixed wing hours, just maybe use some of the nearly 200 I've got already! But what you say makes a lot of sense; thanks.
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
No, you didn't confuse me, and thanks for those details - I'll print them out this time. I ignored them last time you told me and figured someone else should know, but everyone disagrees
Elpirata,
I'm not looking to get more fixed wing hours, just maybe use some of the nearly 200 I've got already! But what you say makes a lot of sense; thanks.
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
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What are my chances?
I'm 34 years old and thinking of having a career change - from sitting behind a desk all day to a career as a helicopter pilot.
My question is, if I go ahead and get a commercial licence (I currently live in Australia) what are my realistic chances of getting a job? Is my age / lack of flying experience against me? I figure I could have 20 - 25 years of flying so maybe I'm not too late. Am I being naive? Are there other things I should take into consideration before embarking on a flying career? I would appreciate any advice, help or informed opinion available.
Thanks.
My question is, if I go ahead and get a commercial licence (I currently live in Australia) what are my realistic chances of getting a job? Is my age / lack of flying experience against me? I figure I could have 20 - 25 years of flying so maybe I'm not too late. Am I being naive? Are there other things I should take into consideration before embarking on a flying career? I would appreciate any advice, help or informed opinion available.
Thanks.
Gatvol
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One can do anything they desire. At 34 with about $20,000+ U.S. you can get the proper ratings to be a commercial Helicopter Pilot. Then after a few years of low paying jobs you can finally find one that will feed you (not your family)... Yes, It can be done but the grass is not always that green after you get over the fence. The choice is yours......
I always wanted to be a Piano player in a whorehouse, but instead the Army taught me to fly...wasnt that good at Piano.
I always wanted to be a Piano player in a whorehouse, but instead the Army taught me to fly...wasnt that good at Piano.
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If you feel you must move into aviation - my honest advice is go fixed wing that is where the money is - I have been flying rotary for 20 years now full UK ATPL H with IR but can only earn £40K per annum by not flying the north sea - so again GO FIXED WING!!
Good Luck
Good Luck
"Just a pilot"
First, 34 isn't that old. I'm in the U.S., and my experience is that a couple of years full time from ab initio (zero time) to widely employable, going at it full time. Let's say, 3 years-you'll be 37-but you'll be 37 then whether you go for it or not... What do you want to be doing at 37?
The first few years are expensive. Don't borrow money to do this, it's hard to make ends meet without pulling a tail of debt. Really important as you near retirement, also known as losing one's medical.
Really hard on family life. You're away from home a lot, or constantly moving. Most jobs are temporary, or where you don't want to live on your off duty time.
The first few years are expensive. Don't borrow money to do this, it's hard to make ends meet without pulling a tail of debt. Really important as you near retirement, also known as losing one's medical.
Really hard on family life. You're away from home a lot, or constantly moving. Most jobs are temporary, or where you don't want to live on your off duty time.
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Hi PJB,
I started my commercial training in Australia when I was 32 years and was determined to become a helicopter pilot. 10 Years before I had flown as a passenger on a huey and knew then what I wanted to do.
I managed to save most of the cost for the training before hand and got right into flying helicopters (have never flown an airplane). It took me just over a year to complete my CPL(H)( I was working at the time as well).
Had endorsements on the R22 and H269 and of I went to find a job as a 150 hrs pilot.
After 6 months travelling around Australia looking for work I returned home without a job and did an IREX and ATPL(H) exams. Even with these qualifications and the hours I had I could not find a Job.
Again 6 months later I got news from Europe that a company was looking for low houred co-pilots flying to the rigs. I went over to europe had to do all exams again (Had not enough hours to convert my Oz licence) up and including ATPL(H).
This company then took me on, here I did my instrument rating, subsequently the company merged with an other company and shortly thereafter lost a contract and suddenly they had too many pilots and I was laid off there and then.
2 months later I got a position to fly a corporate helicopter (VFR) and have been employed ever since. I have had my (Oz)licence for 10 years and I have just short of 1000 hrs.
If you really want to do it go for it but remember it is not going to be easy.
Fly safe
I started my commercial training in Australia when I was 32 years and was determined to become a helicopter pilot. 10 Years before I had flown as a passenger on a huey and knew then what I wanted to do.
I managed to save most of the cost for the training before hand and got right into flying helicopters (have never flown an airplane). It took me just over a year to complete my CPL(H)( I was working at the time as well).
Had endorsements on the R22 and H269 and of I went to find a job as a 150 hrs pilot.
After 6 months travelling around Australia looking for work I returned home without a job and did an IREX and ATPL(H) exams. Even with these qualifications and the hours I had I could not find a Job.
Again 6 months later I got news from Europe that a company was looking for low houred co-pilots flying to the rigs. I went over to europe had to do all exams again (Had not enough hours to convert my Oz licence) up and including ATPL(H).
This company then took me on, here I did my instrument rating, subsequently the company merged with an other company and shortly thereafter lost a contract and suddenly they had too many pilots and I was laid off there and then.
2 months later I got a position to fly a corporate helicopter (VFR) and have been employed ever since. I have had my (Oz)licence for 10 years and I have just short of 1000 hrs.
If you really want to do it go for it but remember it is not going to be easy.
Fly safe