Would you become a professional helicopter pilot again?
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EE.........I am with you mate. I spent a year with the airline industry (Air France) and have flown military fixed wing. My soul, passion, heart and way of life is rotary. I am HM Forces, but that is not the point........its the passion, do you look up into the sky when something flys over, do watch/read flying related stuff, do you enjoy 36,000 feet or 50 feet on goggles/FLIR. Those are the true questions. Underachieving is just mudslinging as if you really want to do something you'll do it (medical permitting) even if it means working in Mac Donalds for 50 years to get your ATPL.
Some people like the airline ' I'll have the chicken please' way of life others prefer the 'wobble heads'. If you are up there looking at someone else then life is too short and you are either too lazy to change or you don't have the true flying bug/passion previously talked about. Just like some people like blondes, others brunettes....we are all different with mutual respect.
I know that I could impress a BA Captain by doing NVG under wires in poor viz..........on the other hand he could impress the socks off me by sorting out a serious emergency IMC, just after take off or just about to land with 300 pax down the back.....its all relative. I don't want his job and I doubt if he wants mine!
Some people like the airline ' I'll have the chicken please' way of life others prefer the 'wobble heads'. If you are up there looking at someone else then life is too short and you are either too lazy to change or you don't have the true flying bug/passion previously talked about. Just like some people like blondes, others brunettes....we are all different with mutual respect.
I know that I could impress a BA Captain by doing NVG under wires in poor viz..........on the other hand he could impress the socks off me by sorting out a serious emergency IMC, just after take off or just about to land with 300 pax down the back.....its all relative. I don't want his job and I doubt if he wants mine!
Last edited by A Grey Man; 3rd Jul 2002 at 20:35.
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TC you refer to getting out of bed and the coyote refers to motorcycles. In your case I've heard that you were lucky to get out of bed after your experiences with motorcycles - true or false?
As for me, I'd rather be a merchant banker (left or right handed) or a fund manager. They are always on the make and only the clients lose
As for me, I'd rather be a merchant banker (left or right handed) or a fund manager. They are always on the make and only the clients lose
Gatvol
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Heliport
So far your numbers are not stacking up. Those who are so happy are doing what I mentioned, is not the bulk of the industry.....
Lets here it from some guys on Contract for some Geologists in Alaska, or some GOMER stuck on a platform......See what kind of pay, benefits and security they have.....
I think this is about over.....Flaredamit and I can hold them at the pass.......
So far your numbers are not stacking up. Those who are so happy are doing what I mentioned, is not the bulk of the industry.....
Lets here it from some guys on Contract for some Geologists in Alaska, or some GOMER stuck on a platform......See what kind of pay, benefits and security they have.....
I think this is about over.....Flaredamit and I can hold them at the pass.......
Last edited by B Sousa; 4th Jul 2002 at 01:16.
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So...,
One big question in my mind now is: If it's so bad for the few of you, whay are you still here? Is someone holding a gun to your head making you hang with us neurotic underachievers? If the grass is so much greener on the other side, get after it - climb the fence and go. (Could it be that I'm not the underachiever in this discussion?)
Why are you folks so upset that I, along with some others here, should be happy and comfortable doing what I/ we do? It sounds to me like you are condeming everyone else for the poor choice or choices you made (and continue to make) for yourselves (rationalization).
Bert, what's the "military thing" have to do with this discussion? By your own admission...:
*** "I also did the military thing and those folks should be eliminated from this as they also make a good living with benefits and retirement....... " ***
...your opinion should be eliminated and deleted from the thread. Hey, that's what happens when you try to change the rules after the ball's in the air. (BTW, I started 30 years ago, did everything on my own - zero military - my own money, blood, sweat, NO tears and NO whining. I've been a line pilot doing those things you mentioned - and I was, and still am happy and content). Please don't try and load the jury box. IMHO, assuming everyone here is a pilot - military background or not - line pilot, corporate pilot, LE pilot or whatever pilot, each deserves equal press.
Further, this thread's question is not a debate about unions (that's the "other" websight), it's a debate over personal preferences and whether we would make the same choices again.
Just so you know when you start throwing stones at me; I am considered a line pilot. In this position, I am making $48K and will "top out" at around $55K USD (notwithstanding any future [non-guaranteed] cost of living allowances). I consciously made the decision to take this position over quite a few others - most offering a much better salary. I have everything that I desire and enough money left over to play at whatever it is I choose. I do not have any supplemental incomes. I'm not hoping to advance in the company as I've "been there and done that" - all the way to the top.
Now, please, direct me to the "Big Book of Life" that sets forth the criterion for personal happiness and show me the paragraph that madates that I have to be a miserable SOB while living the life I have chosen so I can see what the fuss is all about.
Again, to robpowell69, Whirly, and the other aspiring pilots looking in on the debate, best of luck, keep pluggin' away and make yourselves happy. In all my travels, it's been my observation that, no mater what the chosen field, no mater what the salary or conditions, there's always going to be someone standing around, crying and complaining.
C Ya
*********
"We all wear the chains we forge in life"
One big question in my mind now is: If it's so bad for the few of you, whay are you still here? Is someone holding a gun to your head making you hang with us neurotic underachievers? If the grass is so much greener on the other side, get after it - climb the fence and go. (Could it be that I'm not the underachiever in this discussion?)
Why are you folks so upset that I, along with some others here, should be happy and comfortable doing what I/ we do? It sounds to me like you are condeming everyone else for the poor choice or choices you made (and continue to make) for yourselves (rationalization).
Bert, what's the "military thing" have to do with this discussion? By your own admission...:
*** "I also did the military thing and those folks should be eliminated from this as they also make a good living with benefits and retirement....... " ***
...your opinion should be eliminated and deleted from the thread. Hey, that's what happens when you try to change the rules after the ball's in the air. (BTW, I started 30 years ago, did everything on my own - zero military - my own money, blood, sweat, NO tears and NO whining. I've been a line pilot doing those things you mentioned - and I was, and still am happy and content). Please don't try and load the jury box. IMHO, assuming everyone here is a pilot - military background or not - line pilot, corporate pilot, LE pilot or whatever pilot, each deserves equal press.
Further, this thread's question is not a debate about unions (that's the "other" websight), it's a debate over personal preferences and whether we would make the same choices again.
Just so you know when you start throwing stones at me; I am considered a line pilot. In this position, I am making $48K and will "top out" at around $55K USD (notwithstanding any future [non-guaranteed] cost of living allowances). I consciously made the decision to take this position over quite a few others - most offering a much better salary. I have everything that I desire and enough money left over to play at whatever it is I choose. I do not have any supplemental incomes. I'm not hoping to advance in the company as I've "been there and done that" - all the way to the top.
Now, please, direct me to the "Big Book of Life" that sets forth the criterion for personal happiness and show me the paragraph that madates that I have to be a miserable SOB while living the life I have chosen so I can see what the fuss is all about.
Again, to robpowell69, Whirly, and the other aspiring pilots looking in on the debate, best of luck, keep pluggin' away and make yourselves happy. In all my travels, it's been my observation that, no mater what the chosen field, no mater what the salary or conditions, there's always going to be someone standing around, crying and complaining.
C Ya
*********
"We all wear the chains we forge in life"
Gatvol
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Desert Dude
Take it back to square one. Heliport brought up something about the bulk of folks in the Helicopter Industry are happy campers. Thats when I said something too the effect of low pay, no retirement etc.
Those who responded were saying they have great jobs and great pay etc. Those folks were not the bulk of the industry. and I walked on that a few posts back.
Military Thing....Military pilots today have good pay, benefits and retirement. I admit though as of late they also have their fair share of deployments. But for someone in the Military who isnt happy, I say come on out and join some tour company or others mentioned and see what kind of future there is....
By the Way I didnt Start this thread.....Heliport used my name.....
Once again, I AM NOT unhappy with flying helicopters, I love it too.....but I did not have to do it for a career. I just happened to have flown for 33 years, lately for some lunch money.....
P.S. If your happy with $48k topping at $55k in this day and age, your goals are not that high. I do hope you are not satisfied there and, as you mentioned, plan to advance or move on where you can. Great for you, but today anything less than $80-100k/yr is not going to help much at the other end.
But thats your choice.
I have yet to see some GOMER/EMS guy in here, albeit I did get an email from one who is driving a nice new EMS rig and working his ass off for less than you get........Ah, but he loves it....
Good Luck
Take it back to square one. Heliport brought up something about the bulk of folks in the Helicopter Industry are happy campers. Thats when I said something too the effect of low pay, no retirement etc.
Those who responded were saying they have great jobs and great pay etc. Those folks were not the bulk of the industry. and I walked on that a few posts back.
Military Thing....Military pilots today have good pay, benefits and retirement. I admit though as of late they also have their fair share of deployments. But for someone in the Military who isnt happy, I say come on out and join some tour company or others mentioned and see what kind of future there is....
By the Way I didnt Start this thread.....Heliport used my name.....
Once again, I AM NOT unhappy with flying helicopters, I love it too.....but I did not have to do it for a career. I just happened to have flown for 33 years, lately for some lunch money.....
P.S. If your happy with $48k topping at $55k in this day and age, your goals are not that high. I do hope you are not satisfied there and, as you mentioned, plan to advance or move on where you can. Great for you, but today anything less than $80-100k/yr is not going to help much at the other end.
But thats your choice.
I have yet to see some GOMER/EMS guy in here, albeit I did get an email from one who is driving a nice new EMS rig and working his ass off for less than you get........Ah, but he loves it....
Good Luck
Last edited by B Sousa; 4th Jul 2002 at 01:43.
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...And here I was getting to feel kinda bad because Desert Dude seemed to have a job that made him deliriously happy. I figured he really must have hit the motherload! I mean, in a previous post, he said:
"I'm not trying to rain on your parade here Bert but I'm getting:
1. Adequate pay,
2. Retirement,
3. I own my own place and when I'm away from la casa the crew quarters are top of the line, (I even get a company car)
4. Can't do anything about the hours - that's the nature of "the beast", but I do get compensated accordingly,
5. I get to fly fairly new and extremely well maintained aircraft,
6. Job security? Who has job security - anywhere? Be honest?
7. Within reason and actual conditions, no one exceeds either their personal or the aircraft's operational capabilities. In the same context we are expected to operate to our (and aircraft) limits when called upon to do so.
And I've never considered myself to be an underacheiver. I happen to like what I do and I choose to stay in the business (for thirty years now)..."
Wow! Thirty years! He must really be making some coin by now, eh? But wait! Then he posts...
"Just so you know when you start throwing stones at me; I am considered a line pilot. In this position, I am making $48K and will "top out" at around $55K USD..."
Oh. My. God.
This guy has been in this industry for THIRTY YEARS and he's only making $48,000 per year?!?!
I'm really, really, really glad that Desert Dude gets such personal satisfaction out of his job. But I would suggest that if he ever attends a dinner party at which a psychologist or psychiatrist is also invited, he doesn't admit his salary. The aforementioned health care professional might take him on pro bono.
Hey, you know what? "Job satisfaction" has to weigh-in there someplace. It's not 100% about money, I know that. I didn't spend nearly twenty years as a line pilot for nuthin'. (Oh wait...or did I?) But I really have to wonder about someone who would spend thirty years in an industry and only be making $48,000/year. When I quit PHI - not my first flying job- I was at the thirteen-year level and had just clicked into the $50,000/year level. Good-bye!
In closing, Desert Dude ain't exactly a poster boy for how great this industry is, no matter how much he enjoys it. At least, let's hope not. I sincerely hope that Rob Powell (the original poster) hasn't picked up on this thread. He'll run from helicopters faster that an altar boy from Fr. O'Brien.
"I'm not trying to rain on your parade here Bert but I'm getting:
1. Adequate pay,
2. Retirement,
3. I own my own place and when I'm away from la casa the crew quarters are top of the line, (I even get a company car)
4. Can't do anything about the hours - that's the nature of "the beast", but I do get compensated accordingly,
5. I get to fly fairly new and extremely well maintained aircraft,
6. Job security? Who has job security - anywhere? Be honest?
7. Within reason and actual conditions, no one exceeds either their personal or the aircraft's operational capabilities. In the same context we are expected to operate to our (and aircraft) limits when called upon to do so.
And I've never considered myself to be an underacheiver. I happen to like what I do and I choose to stay in the business (for thirty years now)..."
Wow! Thirty years! He must really be making some coin by now, eh? But wait! Then he posts...
"Just so you know when you start throwing stones at me; I am considered a line pilot. In this position, I am making $48K and will "top out" at around $55K USD..."
Oh. My. God.
This guy has been in this industry for THIRTY YEARS and he's only making $48,000 per year?!?!
I'm really, really, really glad that Desert Dude gets such personal satisfaction out of his job. But I would suggest that if he ever attends a dinner party at which a psychologist or psychiatrist is also invited, he doesn't admit his salary. The aforementioned health care professional might take him on pro bono.
Hey, you know what? "Job satisfaction" has to weigh-in there someplace. It's not 100% about money, I know that. I didn't spend nearly twenty years as a line pilot for nuthin'. (Oh wait...or did I?) But I really have to wonder about someone who would spend thirty years in an industry and only be making $48,000/year. When I quit PHI - not my first flying job- I was at the thirteen-year level and had just clicked into the $50,000/year level. Good-bye!
In closing, Desert Dude ain't exactly a poster boy for how great this industry is, no matter how much he enjoys it. At least, let's hope not. I sincerely hope that Rob Powell (the original poster) hasn't picked up on this thread. He'll run from helicopters faster that an altar boy from Fr. O'Brien.
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Bert Sousa
All Heliport said to the Wannabee's question was
That's a fair summary of what people regularly say here, and what most people are saying now.
I'd do it again. The money isn't great compared with the major airlines but for me the fact that I enjoy going to work every day makes up for that. I get paid for doing somethign I love doing - to my mind that's worth big bucks itself. I'd hate going to an office every day.
It's good you put the other point of view Bert - it's made a good discussion.
Flare Dammit
Sure psychiatrists, lawyers, captains of industry etc earn a lot more. You've got to compare jobs at the same sort of level.
All Heliport said to the Wannabee's question was
In a nutshell, the advice most commonly given on this forum is -
# Obtaining your professional licence and building enough hours to get a job costs a fortune - consider the military route where you'll get outstanding training all paid for. It's not easy to get in because the competition and standards required are very high, but most things in life worth doing involve a challenge.
# Sponsorship in the civvy world for your basic licence is virtually non-existent.
# The pay isn't as good as flying a 747 for BA, but the enjoyment and freedom of being a professional helicopter pilot makes up for a lot.
Hit the 'Search' button and see how you get on.
# Obtaining your professional licence and building enough hours to get a job costs a fortune - consider the military route where you'll get outstanding training all paid for. It's not easy to get in because the competition and standards required are very high, but most things in life worth doing involve a challenge.
# Sponsorship in the civvy world for your basic licence is virtually non-existent.
# The pay isn't as good as flying a 747 for BA, but the enjoyment and freedom of being a professional helicopter pilot makes up for a lot.
Hit the 'Search' button and see how you get on.
I'd do it again. The money isn't great compared with the major airlines but for me the fact that I enjoy going to work every day makes up for that. I get paid for doing somethign I love doing - to my mind that's worth big bucks itself. I'd hate going to an office every day.
It's good you put the other point of view Bert - it's made a good discussion.
Flare Dammit
Sure psychiatrists, lawyers, captains of industry etc earn a lot more. You've got to compare jobs at the same sort of level.
Flare:
Having looked thru your inputs to this thread, whether you want to believe it or not, you're bottom line is:
MONEY
Just take a look at your responses.
Now that this has been clarified, what do the following have in common (in your view):
Nurses
priests
teachers
firecrew
police officers
social workers
apparently they are all under achievers......
they don't earn much and there is no career structure. They struggle with their daily tasking working all hours, abused by their managers, etc etc. Isn't this what you've been telling helo drivers for the last few days? WHY DO THEY DO IT?
Don't throw that old chestnut at me that there is a career structure with airline pilots you get to become captain and thats it. The rest is all about MONEY.
Next you'll be telling me that being an airline pilot is on a par with a consultant/chief accountant/barrister...get a life flare, ANYONE CAN BE A PILOT (FW or Helo). You don't need to be a rocket scientist to be one..you need DRIVE and enthusiasm. It's not HARDER to become a FW jockey, in fact it's probably harder to become a helo pilot (costs, etc) So why doesn't everyone become a plankdriver?
Wake up and smell the coffee sunshine, get off your high horse and accept reality......there are those of us out here who unfortunately don't want to fly a plank...sorry old boy
Having looked thru your inputs to this thread, whether you want to believe it or not, you're bottom line is:
MONEY
Just take a look at your responses.
Now that this has been clarified, what do the following have in common (in your view):
Nurses
priests
teachers
firecrew
police officers
social workers
apparently they are all under achievers......
they don't earn much and there is no career structure. They struggle with their daily tasking working all hours, abused by their managers, etc etc. Isn't this what you've been telling helo drivers for the last few days? WHY DO THEY DO IT?
Don't throw that old chestnut at me that there is a career structure with airline pilots you get to become captain and thats it. The rest is all about MONEY.
Next you'll be telling me that being an airline pilot is on a par with a consultant/chief accountant/barrister...get a life flare, ANYONE CAN BE A PILOT (FW or Helo). You don't need to be a rocket scientist to be one..you need DRIVE and enthusiasm. It's not HARDER to become a FW jockey, in fact it's probably harder to become a helo pilot (costs, etc) So why doesn't everyone become a plankdriver?
Wake up and smell the coffee sunshine, get off your high horse and accept reality......there are those of us out here who unfortunately don't want to fly a plank...sorry old boy
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YES. The grass is always greener, i always enjoy the stories my airlines mates tell me about where theyve been and what theyve seen, very few stories about their flying because its all routine.
What i consider routine in helicopters is almost held in awe by our fixed wing brethern.
What they do, i think is pretty good too.
If you dont like helos there are other jobs you can do.
Would i do it again, you betcha.
Helicopter flying is like ----ing, its great fun, just dont tell everyone how often you do it!
What i consider routine in helicopters is almost held in awe by our fixed wing brethern.
What they do, i think is pretty good too.
If you dont like helos there are other jobs you can do.
Would i do it again, you betcha.
Helicopter flying is like ----ing, its great fun, just dont tell everyone how often you do it!
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Update on this unrepresentative, unscientific (but very interesting) survey ...........
Roundagain
DesertDude
Steve76
Up&Away
Stevie Terrier
Nick Lappos
What-ho Squiffy!
buttline
Nigel Osborn
Max ng
What Limits
HeliMark
Thomas Coupling
The Coyote
John Eacott
SASless
Rotorbike
BlenderPilot
Ethereal Entity
Soggy Boxers
Grey Man
Hoverman
Sling Load
Bert Sousa
"Those folks (above) are not the bulk of the industry."
(Loves it really, probably would do it again, but helping the debate!
)
Flare Dammit
"I'm convinced that most helicopter pilots are neurotic nutjobs."
Roundagain
DesertDude
Steve76
Up&Away
Stevie Terrier
Nick Lappos
What-ho Squiffy!
buttline
Nigel Osborn
Max ng
What Limits
HeliMark
Thomas Coupling
The Coyote
John Eacott
SASless
Rotorbike
BlenderPilot
Ethereal Entity
Soggy Boxers
Grey Man
Hoverman
Sling Load
Bert Sousa
"Those folks (above) are not the bulk of the industry."
(Loves it really, probably would do it again, but helping the debate!
)Flare Dammit
"I'm convinced that most helicopter pilots are neurotic nutjobs."
Last edited by Heliport; 4th Jul 2002 at 15:21.
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Flippin Heck! I didnt check the forum untill a few days after my original wannabe posting. Didnt expect to open a big can of worms. Theres some good stuff here though raising all the issues involved with choosing heli flyin. Cheers Heliport for the no nonsense honest overveiw and to the rest for joining in.
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People accuse me of being a mercenary...just being interested in the money. As if being paid a decent salary for something technical and challenging is somehow...wrong.
Heh-heh, I get a big kick out of these wierd helicopter pilots who wear their pathetic salaries like some friggin' badge of honor. ...As if they're PROUD to forego a respectable, honorable salary just to be able to say, "I love what I do!" ...As if the very IDEA of being paid well for who we are and what we do is repugnant. It's like they feel guilty about getting paid for something so enjoyable, and the pis*-poor salaries are the unavoidable penance we endure for it. I know them well - because I was one of them for more years than I care to count.
I'm better now.
Okay, I'll bite. What do:
Nurses
priests
teachers
firecrew
police officers
social workers
...all have in common? Well, for one thing, they all serve a "greater good" in society. To do that sort of work, one must have a special calling. But let's ask ourselves what helicopter pilots do for society? Answer: Not a damn thing. We ferry spoiled CEO's around? We ferry oil workers back and forth to the rigs/platforms? We ferry tourists around NYC and El Canyon Grande? Oh yeah, well, some of us fly air ambulances...but the debate rages whether or not such pilots actually "save lives" or just drive the machine.
I've always been amused by the dichotomy of helicopter pilots. On one hand, they have such HUGE egos, yet on the other they seem to have such low self-esteem. It's strange. Many think they're truly God's gift to aviation (a belief that may or may not be privately held), yet at the same time they allow themselves to be horribly abused by their employers in the name of "job satisfaction."
Throughout my career, I've met many, many pilots who had the barest, most gossamer connection with aviation other than what they did when they were specifically on-duty. They subscribed to no aviation magazines, did not read newsgroups such as this one, did not keep abreast of happenings within our industry, and in general had surprisingly little interest in helicopters at all! Yet if you asked - and even if you didn't, all of these pilots would tell you they were consummate professionals and experts at their job and in their field.
My questions to them about advances in TCAS or avionics would be met with blank stares. If it did not directly effect them, they weren't interested. And nevermind asking a question about some aviation topic other than helicopters!
I've studied helicopter pilots all my life (my dad was one before I was born). I entered this business full-time in 1976. I've always wanted to know what made helicopter pilots tick? And after all these years, I haven't the faintest clue. I've made a lot of observations, and come to a bunch of conclusions, but I do not know what drives men to be so oddly passionate about these wierd machines. Only that they are.
Would I become a professional pilot all over again? CERTAINLY! Would I become a professional helicopter pilot again? Well...ahh...umm..."maybe." Yeah, okay, I would. Just maybe not at first. And of the eighteen years that I spent as a full-time helicopter pilot, I readily would've given up the last thirteen spent out in the Gulf o'Mejico. No offense meant to any of the great people I've met and friends I've made along the way, but I stayed in this strange industry for faaaaar too long.
...Until it was almost too late.
Heh-heh, I get a big kick out of these wierd helicopter pilots who wear their pathetic salaries like some friggin' badge of honor. ...As if they're PROUD to forego a respectable, honorable salary just to be able to say, "I love what I do!" ...As if the very IDEA of being paid well for who we are and what we do is repugnant. It's like they feel guilty about getting paid for something so enjoyable, and the pis*-poor salaries are the unavoidable penance we endure for it. I know them well - because I was one of them for more years than I care to count.
I'm better now.
Okay, I'll bite. What do:
Nurses
priests
teachers
firecrew
police officers
social workers
...all have in common? Well, for one thing, they all serve a "greater good" in society. To do that sort of work, one must have a special calling. But let's ask ourselves what helicopter pilots do for society? Answer: Not a damn thing. We ferry spoiled CEO's around? We ferry oil workers back and forth to the rigs/platforms? We ferry tourists around NYC and El Canyon Grande? Oh yeah, well, some of us fly air ambulances...but the debate rages whether or not such pilots actually "save lives" or just drive the machine.
I've always been amused by the dichotomy of helicopter pilots. On one hand, they have such HUGE egos, yet on the other they seem to have such low self-esteem. It's strange. Many think they're truly God's gift to aviation (a belief that may or may not be privately held), yet at the same time they allow themselves to be horribly abused by their employers in the name of "job satisfaction."
Throughout my career, I've met many, many pilots who had the barest, most gossamer connection with aviation other than what they did when they were specifically on-duty. They subscribed to no aviation magazines, did not read newsgroups such as this one, did not keep abreast of happenings within our industry, and in general had surprisingly little interest in helicopters at all! Yet if you asked - and even if you didn't, all of these pilots would tell you they were consummate professionals and experts at their job and in their field.
My questions to them about advances in TCAS or avionics would be met with blank stares. If it did not directly effect them, they weren't interested. And nevermind asking a question about some aviation topic other than helicopters!
I've studied helicopter pilots all my life (my dad was one before I was born). I entered this business full-time in 1976. I've always wanted to know what made helicopter pilots tick? And after all these years, I haven't the faintest clue. I've made a lot of observations, and come to a bunch of conclusions, but I do not know what drives men to be so oddly passionate about these wierd machines. Only that they are.
Would I become a professional pilot all over again? CERTAINLY! Would I become a professional helicopter pilot again? Well...ahh...umm..."maybe." Yeah, okay, I would. Just maybe not at first. And of the eighteen years that I spent as a full-time helicopter pilot, I readily would've given up the last thirteen spent out in the Gulf o'Mejico. No offense meant to any of the great people I've met and friends I've made along the way, but I stayed in this strange industry for faaaaar too long.
...Until it was almost too late.
Flare Dammit, after all the bitcing and moaning, you tell us you would become a professional helicopter pilot again! Not only are you contradictory, you are also illogical in your arguments; insinuating that helicopter pilots know ******-all aboout fixed wing and/or hi-tech aviation. Try asking the average airline pilot about anything other than airline-secific aviation, and you might get a surprise.
The problem with you is that you see the world like the multi-level marketing converts - you cannot see why absolutely everyone isn't involved in this fantastic, bullet-proof way of making shed-loads of money, and everyone that isn't involved in it is either deluded or insane. The thing is that not everyone sees remuneration as the defining criteria for an occupation. People that do are uni-dimensional pains in the tailskid.
You must be great to have a beer with at the end of the day - sitting at the end of the bar, alone...with all your mates, moaning about your lousy pay.
Cheers!
The problem with you is that you see the world like the multi-level marketing converts - you cannot see why absolutely everyone isn't involved in this fantastic, bullet-proof way of making shed-loads of money, and everyone that isn't involved in it is either deluded or insane. The thing is that not everyone sees remuneration as the defining criteria for an occupation. People that do are uni-dimensional pains in the tailskid.
You must be great to have a beer with at the end of the day - sitting at the end of the bar, alone...with all your mates, moaning about your lousy pay.
Cheers!
Gatvol
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Flare seems to be taking fire so I found a little ditty that should take a bit of the heat off.
Someone on just helos posted a site for "Pay Comparison". I dont think the numbers are WHAT is being paid rather WHAT SHOULD be paid. However its something for DesertDude to look at as it shows his goal in life to be about 25% lower than the lowest on the scale. I see the low scale for Las Vegas was in the $60k/yr range and Im certain that the tour drivers here, and I know EMS are getting much less on a per year basis. They comprise most of the local Helicopter Pilots...
http://usatoday.salary.com/salarywiz...54&image1.y=17
Click on this site and it should work. Plug in your own city. The salarys on this scale would give a comfortable living and be more in line with the work than the numbers I previously posted. MY numbers were in line as to what a good Professional should make as an average so that there is something on the other end (thats Retirement). Not all Helicopter companies have those things called Benefits. Mainly because a lot of the workers are seasonal, firefighters, tours etc. And thats a big share of the Pilot Pool...
And Yes I still love Helicopters....
Someone on just helos posted a site for "Pay Comparison". I dont think the numbers are WHAT is being paid rather WHAT SHOULD be paid. However its something for DesertDude to look at as it shows his goal in life to be about 25% lower than the lowest on the scale. I see the low scale for Las Vegas was in the $60k/yr range and Im certain that the tour drivers here, and I know EMS are getting much less on a per year basis. They comprise most of the local Helicopter Pilots...
http://usatoday.salary.com/salarywiz...54&image1.y=17
Click on this site and it should work. Plug in your own city. The salarys on this scale would give a comfortable living and be more in line with the work than the numbers I previously posted. MY numbers were in line as to what a good Professional should make as an average so that there is something on the other end (thats Retirement). Not all Helicopter companies have those things called Benefits. Mainly because a lot of the workers are seasonal, firefighters, tours etc. And thats a big share of the Pilot Pool...
And Yes I still love Helicopters....
Last edited by B Sousa; 5th Jul 2002 at 14:47.
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Hmm. I think Flare it has a problem with life which wouldn't be solved if he was paid a vaaast amount for his helicoptering skills. You really can't lambast folk for actually being quite happy with their lot in life. Clearly money is not the only issue - my best (yester)year as an R22 instructor was £42k gross but even though instructing was fun, eventually - like everything you do day after day it can become dull... A co-pilot job offered to me Up North paid 27k but the routine put me off ( or was it the proper job aspect, and HAVING to report for work?!) I still fly singles, do not instruct, am very poor and some days I hate helicopters, But if I was told I could never fly a helicopter (or aeroplane,sorry!) again I'd be gutted.It's what I do - fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly etc etc
So to summarise: I have spent a fortune to get my licences, and sometimes I hate what I do; but would I do it again? Of course I bloody would!! Flare it life is ****ty sometimes but at least its better than no life which evidently is what you have(nt) got. I bet you were still One of Us in the beginning: 'I could could fly all day and every day, just for food, 'an I wouldn't even need to be paid, mista..'
PS I still want to be a bush pilot.....
So to summarise: I have spent a fortune to get my licences, and sometimes I hate what I do; but would I do it again? Of course I bloody would!! Flare it life is ****ty sometimes but at least its better than no life which evidently is what you have(nt) got. I bet you were still One of Us in the beginning: 'I could could fly all day and every day, just for food, 'an I wouldn't even need to be paid, mista..'
PS I still want to be a bush pilot.....
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Hey Bert, Hey Flare, (and all the rest),
Sorry I missed the past day or so, been out eeking out my pittance (gosh, have I been having fun!). Some intersting stuff been posted here since I last looked in!
Thought I'd expound on my miserable little life a little, for Flare's sake. OK, Bert, you may as well read along too, although neither of you will like it much.
Flare, you seem very concerned that, OH MY GOD, after thirty years I'm only pulling in, WHAT!?! Well, let's look at this a little closer. Please, keep in mind throughout my rambling that I have not worked in any other field - helicopters only - for the past thirty years.
I'm not a bit sorry to say this, Flare, but I do feel as though I have hit the mother load. You're choosing to ignore several important things that I have said and using the rest in an attempt to convince everyone else here they should be as miserable as you and Bert because of their personal choices in life.
To start, I've been in the gulf, I flew EMS, fires, seismic, etc. I've sat on the four pile platforms in "Vermillion 4 million" for six hours in the middle of August, with no wind, sniffing the four layers of seagull ****t covering the deck. So what if Boudreaux did make a little more than I did. You know those dudes - honestly, would you have traded lives with any of them? Not me, OK? Things like that were an inconvenience at most. Geeze, I didn't get pissed at my life and sell my house just because the mesquite roots grew through my sewer line, I simply did what I had to do and made the best of it (you'll never hear me say my ****t don't stink).
Bert, I think you misread into my previous post a little - the reason I am I'm not looking to advance is because I've already been there. I've done it - I enjoyed it while I was there, but I no longer want to be in that position. I want to take the orders, "do the Dew", have the fun, sling the load, it's what I feel I do best, or have the most fun at anyway. I want my toughest decision of the day to be; "where am I going to eat dinner?".
Would it help to tell you two that in the previous eighteen months I have chosen NOT to accept five great offers (the operative word being; chosen)? Would it help to tell you that one offer started in the low six figures after "performance pay", two started in the mid eighties, one in the mid sixties and the fifth I didn't get as far as asking about the salary?
Would it help to tell you several years ago I gave up a managerial/ pilot position for a small operator, that I was making $90K+ with unbelievable perks?
You're right, Flare, I'm not a poster boy for anything and never wanted to be (besides being a neurotic, delusional underachiever, I'm not much to look at and, well, a poster of me would be rather comic if not sad). I guess what I'm trying to say here is, I believe that if I can be successful at jobs such as these, anyone can. With your experience (Flare and Bert) why aren't you in these positions. I haven't done anything you haven't done. You have just as much experience as I do - maybe more. You're probably better aviators to boot - I don't know - don't care. These jobs are real, they're out there. Granted, they may not happen along every other day, but what's a year in the grand scheme of things?
Let's switch gears a little now and look at what else rotary-wing aviation has done to my life. As I said earlier, I own my home. It's a small three bedroom house on several acres, and I have a car and a pick-up truck. All paid for. I have a couple of dogs and an old cat cruisin' around for company. Yeah, I'm single, again, although NOT from "AIDS" (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome, for all of those new to aviation who may be looking in). I have some money (a little) invested in two personal retirement accounts, and with my company's retirement I'll be in good shape. Even with my paltry salary, at the end of the month I have money left over that I don't have to spend. All of this has been financed SOLELY by my thirty year helicopter career. I'm happy to say that I want for nothing (well, yeah, sometimes it'd be nice to have a gal to sit with in the movie theater, but what the hell) and if the sawbones were to tell me that next week was to be my last, I'd spend it no differently - I'd still go to work and enjoy myself and I'd still come home and enjoy myself.
I'm not sorry that I'm happy with my life and I don't need a fancy salary and a cush schedule to offset my miserable existance. I'm not sorry that I've had a wonderful thirty years flying helicopters. I'm not sorry that I'd do it all over again.
Robpowell69, you didn't start anything with your question. This crap has been going on since forever. I'm just here to tell you that helicopters have been good to me and they can be just as good to you. There's no magic involved, a little self discipline, maybe, depending on what you want in return. And, you can have the time of your life along the way.
Whirly, you keep plugging away. That Russia deal sounds neat. I'll just have to be content, all by myself, with my trusty ol' two by twelve...
Good luck to all!
C Ya
Sorry I missed the past day or so, been out eeking out my pittance (gosh, have I been having fun!). Some intersting stuff been posted here since I last looked in!
Thought I'd expound on my miserable little life a little, for Flare's sake. OK, Bert, you may as well read along too, although neither of you will like it much.
Flare, you seem very concerned that, OH MY GOD, after thirty years I'm only pulling in, WHAT!?! Well, let's look at this a little closer. Please, keep in mind throughout my rambling that I have not worked in any other field - helicopters only - for the past thirty years.
I'm not a bit sorry to say this, Flare, but I do feel as though I have hit the mother load. You're choosing to ignore several important things that I have said and using the rest in an attempt to convince everyone else here they should be as miserable as you and Bert because of their personal choices in life.
To start, I've been in the gulf, I flew EMS, fires, seismic, etc. I've sat on the four pile platforms in "Vermillion 4 million" for six hours in the middle of August, with no wind, sniffing the four layers of seagull ****t covering the deck. So what if Boudreaux did make a little more than I did. You know those dudes - honestly, would you have traded lives with any of them? Not me, OK? Things like that were an inconvenience at most. Geeze, I didn't get pissed at my life and sell my house just because the mesquite roots grew through my sewer line, I simply did what I had to do and made the best of it (you'll never hear me say my ****t don't stink).
Bert, I think you misread into my previous post a little - the reason I am I'm not looking to advance is because I've already been there. I've done it - I enjoyed it while I was there, but I no longer want to be in that position. I want to take the orders, "do the Dew", have the fun, sling the load, it's what I feel I do best, or have the most fun at anyway. I want my toughest decision of the day to be; "where am I going to eat dinner?".
Would it help to tell you two that in the previous eighteen months I have chosen NOT to accept five great offers (the operative word being; chosen)? Would it help to tell you that one offer started in the low six figures after "performance pay", two started in the mid eighties, one in the mid sixties and the fifth I didn't get as far as asking about the salary?
Would it help to tell you several years ago I gave up a managerial/ pilot position for a small operator, that I was making $90K+ with unbelievable perks?
You're right, Flare, I'm not a poster boy for anything and never wanted to be (besides being a neurotic, delusional underachiever, I'm not much to look at and, well, a poster of me would be rather comic if not sad). I guess what I'm trying to say here is, I believe that if I can be successful at jobs such as these, anyone can. With your experience (Flare and Bert) why aren't you in these positions. I haven't done anything you haven't done. You have just as much experience as I do - maybe more. You're probably better aviators to boot - I don't know - don't care. These jobs are real, they're out there. Granted, they may not happen along every other day, but what's a year in the grand scheme of things?
Let's switch gears a little now and look at what else rotary-wing aviation has done to my life. As I said earlier, I own my home. It's a small three bedroom house on several acres, and I have a car and a pick-up truck. All paid for. I have a couple of dogs and an old cat cruisin' around for company. Yeah, I'm single, again, although NOT from "AIDS" (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome, for all of those new to aviation who may be looking in). I have some money (a little) invested in two personal retirement accounts, and with my company's retirement I'll be in good shape. Even with my paltry salary, at the end of the month I have money left over that I don't have to spend. All of this has been financed SOLELY by my thirty year helicopter career. I'm happy to say that I want for nothing (well, yeah, sometimes it'd be nice to have a gal to sit with in the movie theater, but what the hell) and if the sawbones were to tell me that next week was to be my last, I'd spend it no differently - I'd still go to work and enjoy myself and I'd still come home and enjoy myself.
I'm not sorry that I'm happy with my life and I don't need a fancy salary and a cush schedule to offset my miserable existance. I'm not sorry that I've had a wonderful thirty years flying helicopters. I'm not sorry that I'd do it all over again.
Robpowell69, you didn't start anything with your question. This crap has been going on since forever. I'm just here to tell you that helicopters have been good to me and they can be just as good to you. There's no magic involved, a little self discipline, maybe, depending on what you want in return. And, you can have the time of your life along the way.
Whirly, you keep plugging away. That Russia deal sounds neat. I'll just have to be content, all by myself, with my trusty ol' two by twelve...
Good luck to all!
C Ya