Something mysterious in Snowdonia

[mayotte]

Whilst I hesitate to agree with TC as he so often tends to forcibly overstate things, for once I thnk he's right. I have no knowledge of UK operations, but where I fly (often in sparsely-populated areas in mountains considerably higher than those in Snowdon) monitoring of 121.5 is totally impracticable. I have to monitor a company operations frequency on one VHF radio, an area common frequency on another VHF radio, a client frequency on my HF radio and another client frequency on my FM radio. If I have an emergency I rely on my transmissions being picked up on the radio I last managed to communicate on, or if need be, either by manual operation or crashing, the satellite picking up my signal on 406. If I survive I then use my Ascom satellite phone (considerably cheaper than installing a third VHF radio) to try and let my company know where I am so I can be rescued.
In reality, I would imagine that in most countries, most pilots would first put out a distress call on the frequency on which they last managed to make radio contact and 121.5 would only be used as a last resort.

[[email protected]]

John, on the Mk 3 we have seperate VHF and UHF radios and both have a TR+G so 121.5 and 243.0 can be monitored. On the Mk3A we have 3 multiband radios, all with a TR+G facility.

Mayotte - when you have someone else to talk to then there is no problem - all this thread has been about an area where no ATC is available at low level. The helicopter detachment provided themselves with mutual support by using a company frequency and one of them monitored 121.5 as well - perfect. If you are a sngle aircraft with no ATC and no company freq then why not use 121.5?

TC - if St Evil is who I think he is then his flying experience far outstrips yours, do show some respect. No-one heard you on 121.5 then? that's because no-one monitors it which was the thrust of this thread anyway. I didn't expect an answer when I put out blind calls giving our position.
In most areas of Snowdonia you can't get Caernafon or Valley (who are shut at the weekend anyway) at low level, so where are the 'local air traffic pressures' then.

SS - slow day at work then? Don't forget Magic on guard.

[EESDL]

Fellow Rotorheads

May I suggest that this thread has run its course?

Gets quite frustrating when you log on to see that the thread has moved to the top of the forum again, you click on it, hoping that something useful has been added, only to find that it's only someone perpetuating the pi55ing contest.

I think by now that, maybe, all useful points have been made(?)

Then again, it's a free world and the pi55ing contestants are at liberty to gain a reputation for their perpensity for 'one-upmanship' - dangerous attributes in our field may I suggest.

Crab, there's no need to feel as if you have to defend yourself or feel that you have to keep 'spelling it out' for those pilots who haven't quite grasped your point or have not read the whole thread (guilty of that crime myself). There are many of us who understand where you're coming from.

ANO
You've all (more or less) made valid comments (IMO), although some of them have been tangential in their relationship to the initial point and some have been naive in their content. Almost as if you went mountain flying once (Snowdon is only just a 'mountain'), got away with it, and now think is the template for future excursions because you came to no harm.

SS
Pretty impressed with the reply that listed all the frequencies, just hope that you're not getting paid by the hour because, obviously, you're not busy enough:-)

[Droopy]

Crab, just a minor point - I'm not droopystop

[[email protected]]

Wise words EESDL - for me the topic is closed. Damn... now I've put it back to the top again!

[whoateallthepies]

Sorry chaps. If you're operating low level in the UK FIR outside controlled airspace the CAA says you should monitor "DEPCOM".

From the AIP Gen 3.4.3

Departing helicopters shall state:
(i) 'To all stations';
(ii) The callsign of the aircraft;
(iii) The location either by name or by reference to a readily identifiable feature;
(iv) The direction and height of the intended departure.
(d) The frequency assigned is 122.950 MHz and shall be known as 'DEPCOM'.

Don't shoot the messenger

[What Limits]

Which is different, of course, to SAFETYCOM !

[SilsoeSid]

crab ,
A pretty quiet Sunday morning thanks. Couldn't find 'Magic' etc on the open www. Besides as they have helped me in the past, I wouldn't want to upset them by letting every T,D & H know how to get hold of them!

EESDL,
Sorry that I'm not busy enough for you, although perhaps some would think that is a good thing.
I reckon everyone had a feel good factor after watching live8, although it's a pity it didn't last throughout the afternoon/evening.


whoateallthepies,

Reference your AIC 3.4.3 quote, you forgot the very first line which states;

"(a) At locations having no ground radio facilities a VHF channel is available to assist departing helicopters."

You also omitted the conditions of use, which include;

"(ii) Transmissions shall occur only when helicopters are operating below 500ft agl
(iii) Helicopters approaching a site should monitor the channel. Blind transmissions are not permitted."

If the messenger passes the correct message, he has nothing to fear.

IMHO, I don't think DEPCOM ('departure' communication!!!) applies in this case as this isn't a 'departing helicopter situation.

So if transitting the Snowdonia Parks area, DEPCOM and SAFETYCOM are not of use because they are for 'departing helicopters at locations having no ground radio freqs' and 'for use at aerodromes having no notified ground radio freq' respectively.
No wonder this thread still goes on.


SS

[whoateallthepies]

Sid

But you still have to monitor DEPCOM just in case What Limits is about to lift from his site and join you aloft.

As well as monitoring 121.5 for Crab's TDAs

And SAFETYCOM for those fixed-wing thingies

And local ATC (if available)

On the other hand, why don't we just all keep our eyes open!!!