Rotorway Corner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 5 nM S of TNT, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am glad somebody came in with some positive comments. All my training and experience has been on the R22, but last weekend I flew a Rotorway for the first time. I was very impressed. The wind at the time was 20 gusting 25 to 28, and it was far far easier than any R22 to keep it in a stable hover - and I am no expert by any means. I also thought the general engineering and build quality was excellent.
I am seriously considering buying one and have not been put off yet!
I am seriously considering buying one and have not been put off yet!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jellycopter,
Just because folks haven't flown the Exec 162F doesn't mean their opinions aren't valid; especially when pilots like RobboRider have done extensive research on the subject. According to your reply, it appears as though many problems with Rotorway aircraft are the result of owner/builder conflicts concerning expectations that don't match reality. This topic has come up from time to time, and I hope that muffin searches this forum for more info.
I've stated my opinion on this topic before... this looks like a fun HOBBY. For those that are mechanically inclined, have a fair amount of disposable income, and have more idle time than they know what to do with... this could be their ticket! However, this is NOT a time-builder that you can fly over populated areas or use for any commercial or training operations. It is a HOBBY for the rotorcraft enthusiast.
For time-building and financial reasons, you would be better off in a certificated helicopter. The Brantly B2B's are an excellent choice. The newer models have Kevlar clutch systems and many other upgrades. The maintenance is a bit more than the Robbie, but FAR less than a Rotorway. Also, you can pick up a used mid-time ship for around $60K or so. The are certificated, and you can use them for training, commercial operations, or just time-building (even over populated areas).
http://www.brantly.info/
http://www.brantly.com/home.htm
Not that it matters, but I've flown the Brantly (and Enstrom and Bell 47). You can find more information about the B2B's flight characteristics here...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...brantly+review
The point is, there are more options than KIT vs. R22. muffin, you should take the time to fly several different ships and do more research. I'm impressed with the Mini-500 just by looking at it, but I wouldn't fly one (that's another safety topic by itself).
R2
Just because folks haven't flown the Exec 162F doesn't mean their opinions aren't valid; especially when pilots like RobboRider have done extensive research on the subject. According to your reply, it appears as though many problems with Rotorway aircraft are the result of owner/builder conflicts concerning expectations that don't match reality. This topic has come up from time to time, and I hope that muffin searches this forum for more info.
I've stated my opinion on this topic before... this looks like a fun HOBBY. For those that are mechanically inclined, have a fair amount of disposable income, and have more idle time than they know what to do with... this could be their ticket! However, this is NOT a time-builder that you can fly over populated areas or use for any commercial or training operations. It is a HOBBY for the rotorcraft enthusiast.
For time-building and financial reasons, you would be better off in a certificated helicopter. The Brantly B2B's are an excellent choice. The newer models have Kevlar clutch systems and many other upgrades. The maintenance is a bit more than the Robbie, but FAR less than a Rotorway. Also, you can pick up a used mid-time ship for around $60K or so. The are certificated, and you can use them for training, commercial operations, or just time-building (even over populated areas).
http://www.brantly.info/
http://www.brantly.com/home.htm
Not that it matters, but I've flown the Brantly (and Enstrom and Bell 47). You can find more information about the B2B's flight characteristics here...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...brantly+review
The point is, there are more options than KIT vs. R22. muffin, you should take the time to fly several different ships and do more research. I'm impressed with the Mini-500 just by looking at it, but I wouldn't fly one (that's another safety topic by itself).
R2
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Queensland Australia
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jellycopter
No need to get so defensive.
No-one who hasn't flown one has said thay are a problem to fly! The only comments made about performance have been that they have limitations with weight. All the comments have been statements of fact such as the work involved, the accident and mechanical problem stats.
Trouble is that owning a rotorway is far far more than flying it.
To someone like me with limited mechanical skills and even more limited time the rest of your post is vindication of the reluctance to buy one.
You may well be right about the flight characteristics but my choice after doing a couple of years research was based on everything BUT the flight handling because they were all more important at the time.
No need to get so defensive.
No-one who hasn't flown one has said thay are a problem to fly! The only comments made about performance have been that they have limitations with weight. All the comments have been statements of fact such as the work involved, the accident and mechanical problem stats.
Trouble is that owning a rotorway is far far more than flying it.
To someone like me with limited mechanical skills and even more limited time the rest of your post is vindication of the reluctance to buy one.
You may well be right about the flight characteristics but my choice after doing a couple of years research was based on everything BUT the flight handling because they were all more important at the time.
RDR,
You write: "this looks like a fun HOBBY". I couldn't agree with you more. Although this is 'P'Prune, I believe the majority of posters are 'Hobby' fliers. (Heliport - I await correction!)
No. The overwhelming majority of contributors to Rotorheads are professionals, followed by those working towards their professional licences.
Heliport
RobboRider,
You write: "No need to get so defensive". Take a look at the title of my previous post - "In defence of Rotorways". Every other post was negative, I just thought I'd give a few positives. As a builder, owner, CAA test pilot and flying instructor on Rotorways I felt it was appropriate to put a 'qualified' side of the argument. Regarding your comments about weight and performance, have you ever tried flying a heavy R22 (or Brantly) within the prescribed limits. If you do, you'll see the R22's performance is also marginal at best. Incidentally, the Exec 162F can carry 2 14.5 stone adults and full fuel (2 hours) within its 1500lbs AUW - hardly weight limited
I will re-iterate. The Rotorway is a Kit Built / Home Built / Hobby helicopter. I don't think anyone has ever implied that it is anything else. However, it's a very good one. I love mine and I enjoy flying and fixing it. It's the same as many middle-aged men do with classic British motorbikes. If you want to get from A to B, buy a Honda or Yamaha (R22/S300). If you enjoy riding something different, 'back to basics' and just for the fun of it, get an AJS, Norton, BSA or Triumph (Rotorway).
Whatever you fly, enjoy it! J
You write: "this looks like a fun HOBBY". I couldn't agree with you more. Although this is 'P'Prune, I believe the majority of posters are 'Hobby' fliers. (Heliport - I await correction!)
No. The overwhelming majority of contributors to Rotorheads are professionals, followed by those working towards their professional licences.
Heliport
RobboRider,
You write: "No need to get so defensive". Take a look at the title of my previous post - "In defence of Rotorways". Every other post was negative, I just thought I'd give a few positives. As a builder, owner, CAA test pilot and flying instructor on Rotorways I felt it was appropriate to put a 'qualified' side of the argument. Regarding your comments about weight and performance, have you ever tried flying a heavy R22 (or Brantly) within the prescribed limits. If you do, you'll see the R22's performance is also marginal at best. Incidentally, the Exec 162F can carry 2 14.5 stone adults and full fuel (2 hours) within its 1500lbs AUW - hardly weight limited
I will re-iterate. The Rotorway is a Kit Built / Home Built / Hobby helicopter. I don't think anyone has ever implied that it is anything else. However, it's a very good one. I love mine and I enjoy flying and fixing it. It's the same as many middle-aged men do with classic British motorbikes. If you want to get from A to B, buy a Honda or Yamaha (R22/S300). If you enjoy riding something different, 'back to basics' and just for the fun of it, get an AJS, Norton, BSA or Triumph (Rotorway).
Whatever you fly, enjoy it! J
Last edited by jellycopter; 30th Jun 2004 at 14:52.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Denver, CO and the GOM
Age: 63
Posts: 515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Remember that the initial question was how the 162 compares to the R22.
The R22 is a helicopter designed by a talented engineer, manufactured in a state-of-the-art facility, constantly and exhaustively analyzed for ways to make it lighter, stronger and less expensive.
The 162 is a helicopter designed by a competent engineer, parts manufactured in a variety of facilities, assembled by whomever, and rarely analyzed except by the NTSB.
In the hangar where we keep our 300CBi and R22, we are renting a space to a gent who owns a 162F. Over the course of the 18 months he's owned it, he's hovered it aproximately 10 hours, while he's gotten his PPL and CPL in our R22.
He has replaced almost every part of the factory drivetrain with aftermarket parts in the Rotorway, as well as most of the cooling and ignition system. I daresay he has more hours working on the 162 than he has flying the R22.
To me, this makes the R22 a better helicopter than the 162. However, in my personal opinion, the R22 is at the bottom of the totem-pole of certificated, factory-built helicopters when you consider all aspects of utility and safety. If you are looking for a "flying car" for an experienced pilot, then the R22 fills the bill very well, as it is relatively fast, inexpensive to run, and mechanically very reliable.
If you are looking for a helicopter to learn from square one, I prefer the robust forgiveness of the Bell47, Schweizer 300CB/CBi or even the Enstrom 280/28.
The R22 is a helicopter designed by a talented engineer, manufactured in a state-of-the-art facility, constantly and exhaustively analyzed for ways to make it lighter, stronger and less expensive.
The 162 is a helicopter designed by a competent engineer, parts manufactured in a variety of facilities, assembled by whomever, and rarely analyzed except by the NTSB.
In the hangar where we keep our 300CBi and R22, we are renting a space to a gent who owns a 162F. Over the course of the 18 months he's owned it, he's hovered it aproximately 10 hours, while he's gotten his PPL and CPL in our R22.
He has replaced almost every part of the factory drivetrain with aftermarket parts in the Rotorway, as well as most of the cooling and ignition system. I daresay he has more hours working on the 162 than he has flying the R22.
To me, this makes the R22 a better helicopter than the 162. However, in my personal opinion, the R22 is at the bottom of the totem-pole of certificated, factory-built helicopters when you consider all aspects of utility and safety. If you are looking for a "flying car" for an experienced pilot, then the R22 fills the bill very well, as it is relatively fast, inexpensive to run, and mechanically very reliable.
If you are looking for a helicopter to learn from square one, I prefer the robust forgiveness of the Bell47, Schweizer 300CB/CBi or even the Enstrom 280/28.
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jellycopter,
I've seen several Rotorway Execs, sat in quite a few on the ground, and discussed them at length with owners, as they fascinate me. I'd just love to fly one! I don't mind living dangerously.
Are you offering me a chance? I vaguely seem to remember that you bought one of the ones I'd seen, sat in, and discussed, though I'm not certain of this.
But if I don't get a chance to fly one, I'll continue to happily pass on rumours, other people's opinions, thoughts and so on; hey, this is PPRuNe, not an encyclopaedia or flight manual!
And, since I've seen and sat in several...nice looking, more so than the R22, fairly comfortable, but no storage space whatsoever.
I've seen several Rotorway Execs, sat in quite a few on the ground, and discussed them at length with owners, as they fascinate me. I'd just love to fly one! I don't mind living dangerously.
Are you offering me a chance? I vaguely seem to remember that you bought one of the ones I'd seen, sat in, and discussed, though I'm not certain of this. But if I don't get a chance to fly one, I'll continue to happily pass on rumours, other people's opinions, thoughts and so on; hey, this is PPRuNe, not an encyclopaedia or flight manual!
And, since I've seen and sat in several...nice looking, more so than the R22, fairly comfortable, but no storage space whatsoever.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ON A HILL
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rotorway vs. Robinson?
Whirly. The same two fellas had a close shave in that exec when the oil bath let go and soaked the belts whilst they were making a confined landing. As you have seen, what a beutiful job they made of the build.
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bugdevheli,
Jeeeeezzzzzzzzz.....I didn't know about that. And I was partly thinking most problems with the Rotorway were due to self-build problems. Hmmm.............
Jeeeeezzzzzzzzz.....I didn't know about that. And I was partly thinking most problems with the Rotorway were due to self-build problems. Hmmm.............
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 5 nM S of TNT, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The value you get buying a Rotorway is way better than any R22 I have looked at. If one can get over the "it's not a certified aircraft so it must be dangerous" mindset, then they certainly offer very cheap helicopter flying. I have looked at one recently which was bought by two guys to build hours for their commercial licences. Having put 350 or so (incident free would you believe) hours on it over a 3 year period, they have now achieved their objective and want to sell it.
If I can find anybody else within sensible distance of the East Midlands who would be interested in forming a syndicate based on it then I might just go ahead and buy it, as my annual usage on my own would not justify sole ownership.
If I can find anybody else within sensible distance of the East Midlands who would be interested in forming a syndicate based on it then I might just go ahead and buy it, as my annual usage on my own would not justify sole ownership.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 5 nM S of TNT, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not an R22 - it is a Rotorway Exec. One of the first ones built in this country. Runs on Avgas or Mogas and works out at around £50 per hour running cost. As Jellycopter pointed out, you have to be prepared to do a lot more than just fly it. Because I also have a permit fixed wing a/c I am used to this, but it might not suit everybody.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ON A HILL
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rotorway flies 200miles to Kemble
A Rotorway exec flew 200 miles to the kemble airshow last Saturday. The pilot reporting a trouble free flight.! The UK agents for Rotorway however,commented on the ammount of phone calls following the somewhat adverse write ups on Prune. Regarding the airshow itself it would appear from the number of people complaining about the £25 admission fee that the Private Flying Association might have shot themselves in the foot.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Australia
Age: 47
Posts: 728
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did he receive a bravery award!!..must be some sort of record for the little exec huh? hes a braver man than i would be, good on him!
Mr S...I guess thats a good thing hey! you must have had a good trip, i ferried a 44 upto kings canyon from Newcastle a few years ago and it was a great trip but its a desolate landscape out there but beautiful all the same
cheers
Mr S...I guess thats a good thing hey! you must have had a good trip, i ferried a 44 upto kings canyon from Newcastle a few years ago and it was a great trip but its a desolate landscape out there but beautiful all the same
cheers
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Out Back
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From memory, a few years ago a Western Aussie coppper built his own rotorway and flew it to every police Station in West Aust.
He was fund raising for a local charity.
A little further than 200 miles I might add.
He was fund raising for a local charity.
A little further than 200 miles I might add.
Not enough $$$ ...
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helicopter down in Brisbane? - updated with pictures
Just heard on the radio something about a helicopter going down at the helipad on the Brisbane River. Anyone got any details yet?
We heard lots of fire trucks going past on the way down to the river then heard it on the radio but no other news yet.
We heard lots of fire trucks going past on the way down to the river then heard it on the radio but no other news yet.
Last edited by wishtobflying; 30th Jul 2004 at 02:50.
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've just been flying a Rotorway Exec 162F for an hour, and asking questions and looking at several in various stages of build for much longer, in order to write a flight test article for one of the GA mags. The verdict? Ignore almost everything I said in the past! What a fabulous little machine! I want one...only I don't have £39,000 and don't want to have to build it myself. Though I could be interested in a group if anyone in the North Wales/Shropshire area is of like mind.
Anyway, I'm not going to say any more; you'll have to read the article when it gets written. And I'm away until next weekend with no likely internet access, so I won't even be able to discuss this any further.
But I just wanted to add myself to the pro-Rotorway votes.
Though I could be interested in a group if anyone in the North Wales/Shropshire area is of like mind. Anyway, I'm not going to say any more; you'll have to read the article when it gets written. And I'm away until next weekend with no likely internet access, so I won't even be able to discuss this any further.
But I just wanted to add myself to the pro-Rotorway votes.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fine. Well, I hope you enjoy your future machine and it's safe. The main issues are related to the secondary drive train, and the following company looks like they've finally licked the problem. You should look into this further:
http://www.epi-eng.com/RW-FailCauseSummry.htm
http://www.epi-eng.com/RW-EPI-Solution.htm
http://www.epi-eng.com/RW-FailCauseSummry.htm
http://www.epi-eng.com/RW-EPI-Solution.htm
Skegness Fly-in
There was going to be an organised event at Skegness this weekend for Rotorways and other helis/planks in general. However, the recent wet weather has caused problems with the surface at the airfield so the event has been postponed tfn.
However, as it's quite a short-notice postponement, there are a few guy's who've planned their weekend around it and are going to turn up by heli to Skegness anyway. There should be about 6 Execs in attendance, weather permitting and a few other helis also; Gazelle and Allouette are 2 that I know of. So, if you fancy a natter or are just curious about these little kit helicopters, why not pop in to Skegness in your helicopter this Saturday (21 Aug) and maybe even go for a spin in one?
Pub lunch planned just after midday.
J
However, as it's quite a short-notice postponement, there are a few guy's who've planned their weekend around it and are going to turn up by heli to Skegness anyway. There should be about 6 Execs in attendance, weather permitting and a few other helis also; Gazelle and Allouette are 2 that I know of. So, if you fancy a natter or are just curious about these little kit helicopters, why not pop in to Skegness in your helicopter this Saturday (21 Aug) and maybe even go for a spin in one?
Pub lunch planned just after midday.
J