Australian Contract
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Yet someone else ready to take on the world and show everyone how it's done.
From what I know from my mates in Oz, QLD Rescue haven't even picked a new machine yet!
Shows how much aviation knowledge you don't have if you are thinking of using co-pilots as hoist operators.
From what I know from my mates in Oz, QLD Rescue haven't even picked a new machine yet!
Shows how much aviation knowledge you don't have if you are thinking of using co-pilots as hoist operators.
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Gimble stop,
Have you actually won the contract, or are you preparing to tender for one?
Recently when the WA government setup the new Bell 412 helicopter EMS service over there, they tried to go down the track of co-pilots being trained up as winch operators, but it failed dismally.
Who had you in mind to train your co-joes as winch operators? From the WA experience, it's easier to train a crewman to carry out non flying cockpit duties than it is to train a low hour co-pilot to be a winch operator, who would be in the back with no experience and no supervision from anyone, not a good situation when winching a sailor off a yacht that's tossing on the oggin...
Have you actually won the contract, or are you preparing to tender for one?
Recently when the WA government setup the new Bell 412 helicopter EMS service over there, they tried to go down the track of co-pilots being trained up as winch operators, but it failed dismally.
Who had you in mind to train your co-joes as winch operators? From the WA experience, it's easier to train a crewman to carry out non flying cockpit duties than it is to train a low hour co-pilot to be a winch operator, who would be in the back with no experience and no supervision from anyone, not a good situation when winching a sailor off a yacht that's tossing on the oggin...
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winchop
We are sending one of our boys over to HAI to the hoist operator seminar. After that he will be carrying out all of our hoist training. Up / Down. How hard do you think it is?
I wish to take issue with you on the subject of a co-pilots ability to be trained as a hoist operator.
What qualities are present in an air crewman that is not transferable to a co-pilot?
Nigel
I did some ringing around and you are correct. It is not lawful to bond pilots in Australiaj. I will have to ask them to pay for their endorsement up front.
Yes we have secured the aircraft. The tender is still to be finalized. We have been given the nod.
Thankyou Peter for your fantastic input via your private messages. You clearly have grate insight into the local helicopter industry.
We are sending one of our boys over to HAI to the hoist operator seminar. After that he will be carrying out all of our hoist training. Up / Down. How hard do you think it is?
I wish to take issue with you on the subject of a co-pilots ability to be trained as a hoist operator.
What qualities are present in an air crewman that is not transferable to a co-pilot?
Nigel
I did some ringing around and you are correct. It is not lawful to bond pilots in Australiaj. I will have to ask them to pay for their endorsement up front.
Yes we have secured the aircraft. The tender is still to be finalized. We have been given the nod.
Thankyou Peter for your fantastic input via your private messages. You clearly have grate insight into the local helicopter industry.
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Pay for their endorsement mmmmm lookout here come the Jetstar/Virgin Blue of the Heli world.
Low time pilots, careful the client may have different ideas.
IFR/VFR?
This has to be a wind up
Low time pilots, careful the client may have different ideas.
IFR/VFR?
This has to be a wind up
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Gimble
A few thoughts for your brilliant business plan:
Your insurance company will have a different idea about low time pilots.
There is a lot more than up and down to being a hoist operator
You will find it hard to find low time SAR pilots.
HH
A few thoughts for your brilliant business plan:
Your insurance company will have a different idea about low time pilots.
There is a lot more than up and down to being a hoist operator
You will find it hard to find low time SAR pilots.
HH
Not enough $$$ ...
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Could you pass on the name of your therapist, I think he forgot to tell your carer to take away your internet access. 
Define "secured the aircraft". Do you actually mean you or some financial backer has the money to do this and you have signed a purchase deal on a multimillion dollar aircraft, or do you mean that you've spoken to someone who has a contact in Zambia who might know someone in Bombay who has seen a temporarily unallocated aircraft that may or may not be suitable for what you want to do but you could get it real cheap?
I'm actually more frightened at the thought that this ISN'T a wind-up, especially as it seems to be a Queensland-oriented operation.
Please tell us where this will be based so I can avoid visiting the area.
Define "secured the aircraft". Do you actually mean you or some financial backer has the money to do this and you have signed a purchase deal on a multimillion dollar aircraft, or do you mean that you've spoken to someone who has a contact in Zambia who might know someone in Bombay who has seen a temporarily unallocated aircraft that may or may not be suitable for what you want to do but you could get it real cheap?
I'm actually more frightened at the thought that this ISN'T a wind-up, especially as it seems to be a Queensland-oriented operation.
Please tell us where this will be based so I can avoid visiting the area.
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Lets just have a look at what Gimble Stop has said so far:
1. Aircraft is a SPIFR B412, ex QES, kitted up with all the goodies and the flight manual full of annexes for the STCs.
(So far, so good - the machines are showing their age, but at least he isn't trying to do it with a NVFR single.)
2. It will fly around 2 hours a day on average, and as Gimble says "They will hardly ever fly."
(Hmm.. staying current will be a problem.)
3. He wants low-time pilots and expects a 5-hour endorsement.
(Oops, we just crossed the line between Great Operator and Great Pretender.)
4. Not interested in the current staff, they have too many fixed ideas and inefficient practices.
(So there goes the pool of knowledge and experience with those particular aircraft, which, if I recall correctly, have a really strange mod to the collective trim which makes it work in reverse. Does "inefficient practices" include staying alive?)
5. Crewmen are not required, and anyway, they are too expensive and want to have shifts which take crew duty into account. Surf knowledge is not required, and this will somehow improve CRM.
(See note to point 3.)
6. The aircraft have been secured, and he has "Been given the nod" for the tender.
(The Nodder is a bigger ******** than GS)
7. Pilots and copilots will pay for their own endorsement.
(Add this to the "low time" bit, mix it with the "hardly ever fly" bit and you get some wonderfully experienced crews.)
8. Copilots will run the hoist. "Up, down, how hard can that be?"
(Hoo, boy.... And if the copilot is ever allowed back into the front seat, will he remember what to do?)
9. One pilot will be attending a seminar, and he will then be the chief trainer for the crewpilotpersons.
(What a great plan. And Gimble Stop will be doing a correspondence course from Nigeria University to pass his Chief Pilot and Managing Directors MBA.)
Marvellous wind-up, GS.
Gibbo, don't waste your valuable time with this one. But it makes amusing reading.
1. Aircraft is a SPIFR B412, ex QES, kitted up with all the goodies and the flight manual full of annexes for the STCs.
(So far, so good - the machines are showing their age, but at least he isn't trying to do it with a NVFR single.)
2. It will fly around 2 hours a day on average, and as Gimble says "They will hardly ever fly."
(Hmm.. staying current will be a problem.)
3. He wants low-time pilots and expects a 5-hour endorsement.
(Oops, we just crossed the line between Great Operator and Great Pretender.)
4. Not interested in the current staff, they have too many fixed ideas and inefficient practices.
(So there goes the pool of knowledge and experience with those particular aircraft, which, if I recall correctly, have a really strange mod to the collective trim which makes it work in reverse. Does "inefficient practices" include staying alive?)
5. Crewmen are not required, and anyway, they are too expensive and want to have shifts which take crew duty into account. Surf knowledge is not required, and this will somehow improve CRM.
(See note to point 3.)
6. The aircraft have been secured, and he has "Been given the nod" for the tender.
(The Nodder is a bigger ******** than GS)
7. Pilots and copilots will pay for their own endorsement.
(Add this to the "low time" bit, mix it with the "hardly ever fly" bit and you get some wonderfully experienced crews.)
8. Copilots will run the hoist. "Up, down, how hard can that be?"
(Hoo, boy.... And if the copilot is ever allowed back into the front seat, will he remember what to do?)
9. One pilot will be attending a seminar, and he will then be the chief trainer for the crewpilotpersons.
(What a great plan. And Gimble Stop will be doing a correspondence course from Nigeria University to pass his Chief Pilot and Managing Directors MBA.)
Marvellous wind-up, GS.
Gibbo, don't waste your valuable time with this one. But it makes amusing reading.
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Flungdung
The aircraft have been secured. The 412s will be delivered as the 139s become available. First in July 2005. I have a guarantee that the current operators will extend at no additional cost until then. The other 412s will follow at a rate that Agusta/Bell can supply the139s to QES. This is expected to be mid 2006.
Those of you in the know will be able to check this out because there are many at Hawkers across this deal. The aircraft are being delivered directly to us at Bankstown.
As you have surmised, I have made my money outside of this part of the industry. I will not be deterred by detractors. I am serious about bringing new blood into the seen.
Hippolite
Our insurance company is one of the consortium partners. We prefer to return to our supporters a higher premium than to through un-necessarily high wages at pilots and crew from the Jurassic period.
Thanks for all private massages from you Kiwis with an interest in a co-pilot position with us. But unfortunately, after repeated incidences of unpaid phone bills we now have a policy of no Kiwis ever. You lot made your bed. Sorry!
Wishtobflying
My therapist is highly supportive of me beginning again in a new part of this industry. Specially one like this in desperate need of reform.
Jeff
The boy that is going to HAI next week is not a pilot, he is our cook. I did not intent to imply he was pilot. My apologies. And thankyou but I will not need help from you or Gibbo.
I have not received any tangible, reasonable or logical arguments why a co-pilot could not be trained as a hoist operator. Are you really suggesting that these two disciplines are mutually exclusive? Why? How?
This is the problem as I see it. You old school guys often cry wolf! You sell your industrial position as Law and fact, when it is nothing more than the way you like it, or the way that has come to be accepted as normal.
If the same people that are telling me this crap are telling me I need to give a pilot a ten hour 412 indorsement instead of five, how am I too differentiate between what is bull**** and what is required for a reasonable safe operation.
You tell me. How am I supposed to work out what is fact and what is industrial fiction? I have spoken with consultants. They also are inclined to offer their preferences rather than legal requirements. This sector of the industry is crippled with incest and nepotism as demonstrated by the relationship between Disguise Delimit and Gibbo
Safety is no accident. Come on! Who are you going to blame when your crewman acting as an untrained co-pilot drives you into a rock in an IFR environment?
The aircraft have been secured. The 412s will be delivered as the 139s become available. First in July 2005. I have a guarantee that the current operators will extend at no additional cost until then. The other 412s will follow at a rate that Agusta/Bell can supply the139s to QES. This is expected to be mid 2006.
Those of you in the know will be able to check this out because there are many at Hawkers across this deal. The aircraft are being delivered directly to us at Bankstown.
As you have surmised, I have made my money outside of this part of the industry. I will not be deterred by detractors. I am serious about bringing new blood into the seen.
Hippolite
Our insurance company is one of the consortium partners. We prefer to return to our supporters a higher premium than to through un-necessarily high wages at pilots and crew from the Jurassic period.
Thanks for all private massages from you Kiwis with an interest in a co-pilot position with us. But unfortunately, after repeated incidences of unpaid phone bills we now have a policy of no Kiwis ever. You lot made your bed. Sorry!
Wishtobflying
My therapist is highly supportive of me beginning again in a new part of this industry. Specially one like this in desperate need of reform.
Jeff
The boy that is going to HAI next week is not a pilot, he is our cook. I did not intent to imply he was pilot. My apologies. And thankyou but I will not need help from you or Gibbo.
I have not received any tangible, reasonable or logical arguments why a co-pilot could not be trained as a hoist operator. Are you really suggesting that these two disciplines are mutually exclusive? Why? How?
This is the problem as I see it. You old school guys often cry wolf! You sell your industrial position as Law and fact, when it is nothing more than the way you like it, or the way that has come to be accepted as normal.
If the same people that are telling me this crap are telling me I need to give a pilot a ten hour 412 indorsement instead of five, how am I too differentiate between what is bull**** and what is required for a reasonable safe operation.
You tell me. How am I supposed to work out what is fact and what is industrial fiction? I have spoken with consultants. They also are inclined to offer their preferences rather than legal requirements. This sector of the industry is crippled with incest and nepotism as demonstrated by the relationship between Disguise Delimit and Gibbo
Safety is no accident. Come on! Who are you going to blame when your crewman acting as an untrained co-pilot drives you into a rock in an IFR environment?
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A few years back we were able to buy bull-sh*t repellant in aerosol cans. Can of that would be kinda handy right about now.
If I recall correctly, the same shop had the odd dictionary for sale too.
WRL
If I recall correctly, the same shop had the odd dictionary for sale too.
WRL
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Gimble (anybody else think it is spelt gimbal? But that is SOP for this one) Stop says:
"If the same people that are telling me this crap are telling me I need to give a pilot a ten hour 412 indorsement instead of five, how am I too differentiate between what is bull**** and what is required for a reasonable safe operation.
You tell me. How am I supposed to work out what is fact and what is industrial fiction?"
Gimble, WE ARE TELLING YOU!
Look in CAO 40.3.0, App II, para 3 and it tells you that for an aircraft in the transport category, the endorsement is 10 hours, unless your "low-time" pilot applicants already have 200 hours PIC or Cojo on 204, 205 or 222.
For somebody who decries fixed ideas, you seem to have some fixed ideas about Kiwis and their desire to pay your phone bill.
Incest? Nepotism? Last time I checked, Gibbo and I were not related.
The helicopter industry would love you to bring some fresh money into it - we certainly need some good injections. But do it in a sensible way. If you are fair dinkum, then use a consultant. He will prevent you from making the mistakes that others have already made.
The suggestions made (before you came out with guns blazing) were to give you some clues. Plenty of people have cried out "What would YOU know? I have a better way." and gone down the tubes because there were a million things that they didn't allow for.
But look at me - I have bitten on a bait that I knew was trolling. It was too much temptation.
"If the same people that are telling me this crap are telling me I need to give a pilot a ten hour 412 indorsement instead of five, how am I too differentiate between what is bull**** and what is required for a reasonable safe operation.
You tell me. How am I supposed to work out what is fact and what is industrial fiction?"
Gimble, WE ARE TELLING YOU!
Look in CAO 40.3.0, App II, para 3 and it tells you that for an aircraft in the transport category, the endorsement is 10 hours, unless your "low-time" pilot applicants already have 200 hours PIC or Cojo on 204, 205 or 222.
For somebody who decries fixed ideas, you seem to have some fixed ideas about Kiwis and their desire to pay your phone bill.
Incest? Nepotism? Last time I checked, Gibbo and I were not related.
The helicopter industry would love you to bring some fresh money into it - we certainly need some good injections. But do it in a sensible way. If you are fair dinkum, then use a consultant. He will prevent you from making the mistakes that others have already made.
The suggestions made (before you came out with guns blazing) were to give you some clues. Plenty of people have cried out "What would YOU know? I have a better way." and gone down the tubes because there were a million things that they didn't allow for.
But look at me - I have bitten on a bait that I knew was trolling. It was too much temptation.
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Doesn't this chap sound like a piece of work.
He is the type of employer who would really appreciate the hard work you would do for him (NOT).
All the Kiwis: He didn't mean the crack about the phone bills. I think he may be showing stress from QES not even having made a decision on a new aircraft let alone giving up their current ones. It will certainly push your plans back Mr. Stop.
He is the type of employer who would really appreciate the hard work you would do for him (NOT).
All the Kiwis: He didn't mean the crack about the phone bills. I think he may be showing stress from QES not even having made a decision on a new aircraft let alone giving up their current ones. It will certainly push your plans back Mr. Stop.
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I just can't see the QLD gov't shelling out 10's of millions of dollars for new aircraft. Will they be leasing? Surely it would be cheaper to transfer the cost and risk to a third party and have them do the job. 
Gimble Stop,
I didn't have a go at you mate, Disguise Delimit did; you Dill! Maybe I am the dill though for offerring some support.
Although, in my experience as a consultant it is fundamental that the client doesn't just hear what you are saying, but listens.
I don't think I can help you.
Gibbo
I didn't have a go at you mate, Disguise Delimit did; you Dill! Maybe I am the dill though for offerring some support.
Although, in my experience as a consultant it is fundamental that the client doesn't just hear what you are saying, but listens.
I don't think I can help you.
Gibbo
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GS or whoever.
I reckon put up or shut up. The old someone else' workstation trick.........what BS.
Tell us your real identity so that we know what sort of goose would either slag someone else, the way you have or be so dumb as to make up a stolen identity story like you have.
I would be so embarassed asking the dumb questions you did and would probably make up a weird story about someone else' work station. etc. etc. Either way YOU are exposed as a self styled gonzo.
The best way to save face is to keep the lower half shut.
DD
I reckon put up or shut up. The old someone else' workstation trick.........what BS.
Tell us your real identity so that we know what sort of goose would either slag someone else, the way you have or be so dumb as to make up a stolen identity story like you have.
I would be so embarassed asking the dumb questions you did and would probably make up a weird story about someone else' work station. etc. etc. Either way YOU are exposed as a self styled gonzo.
The best way to save face is to keep the lower half shut.
DD
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This guy sounds like just the sort of clown the Australian aviation doesn't need. Especially in management.
But it shouldn't matter too much as the whole operation will probably go down the gurgler soon enough by the sounds of it.
Hope he doesn't take too many low time, non kiwi pilots/ winch operators with him.
But it shouldn't matter too much as the whole operation will probably go down the gurgler soon enough by the sounds of it.
Hope he doesn't take too many low time, non kiwi pilots/ winch operators with him.