Flying in the Persian/Arabian Gulf
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Thanks Guy's,
Eagle 86, No probs mate, your are right.
I have always been away in some capasity from the family. All because of flying and their used to it, but point taken. I have a job now that most would give their left nut for, but as usual in this industry it pays less then a Sydney train driver. I just get sick of earning so little for doing what we do, but like you i never got into it for the money and like very few i know i live for the phone to ring and hear that voice say, " we got to fly"
Just trying to assertain if there is a better way to pay the bills.
Cheers
Eagle 86, No probs mate, your are right.
I have always been away in some capasity from the family. All because of flying and their used to it, but point taken. I have a job now that most would give their left nut for, but as usual in this industry it pays less then a Sydney train driver. I just get sick of earning so little for doing what we do, but like you i never got into it for the money and like very few i know i live for the phone to ring and hear that voice say, " we got to fly"
Just trying to assertain if there is a better way to pay the bills.
Cheers
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Mr. Oracle
It’s disappointing to here such a negative attitude towards GHC and particulary as its safe to assume that the oracle is a current employee.
You sound very bitter and ungreatful and have failed to miss the point. The fact of the matter is expats are only in the middle east as guests aslong as we serve a perpose and can benefit the national people. The problem with this type of arrogant and opinionated attitude is it does nothing to benefit the expats position, other than to create miss trust. Clearly Mr. Oracle has difficulty realising where he/she stands within the arab culture but then he/she has a choice. Far be it for me to suggest, however, it would appear that currently he/she has made a wrong choice.
It’s disappointing to here such a negative attitude towards GHC and particulary as its safe to assume that the oracle is a current employee.
You sound very bitter and ungreatful and have failed to miss the point. The fact of the matter is expats are only in the middle east as guests aslong as we serve a perpose and can benefit the national people. The problem with this type of arrogant and opinionated attitude is it does nothing to benefit the expats position, other than to create miss trust. Clearly Mr. Oracle has difficulty realising where he/she stands within the arab culture but then he/she has a choice. Far be it for me to suggest, however, it would appear that currently he/she has made a wrong choice.
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Yes. You are right, I am being controversial here. However, the point I am trying to make is don’t bite off the hand that feeds you and if you really feel that strongly about it, vote with your feet. To do otherwise does nothing to help those that want to make a go of it.
It would seem to me...an open frank discussion of problems can only improve the overall situation. The folks that are "trying to make a go of it" would have to confront reality, those that are thinking about joining get a good view of the situation prior to making their decision, managers can get a peek into what the seat fillers are thinking about the current policies, pay, and living conditions. All three segments of the population then have a common ground from which to work. Those criticizing the situation get some feedback from those that are trying to make a go of it....and the management keeps a finger on the pulse and can make those changes (if any) they think are required.
Quit sticking spears in the messenger....and debate the issues being discussed.
ADA has CRAPPY quarters....always have....probably always will.....GHC has some problems now....AeroGulf has crappy wages...ARAMCO has its bad points.....each have some good points too. If you don't like the situation...don't hire on....if you hired on...there is nothing wrong with trying to improve things....if you are there and don't care to try to improve things....shut the heck up when others do try to improve your lot for you.
Quit sticking spears in the messenger....and debate the issues being discussed.
ADA has CRAPPY quarters....always have....probably always will.....GHC has some problems now....AeroGulf has crappy wages...ARAMCO has its bad points.....each have some good points too. If you don't like the situation...don't hire on....if you hired on...there is nothing wrong with trying to improve things....if you are there and don't care to try to improve things....shut the heck up when others do try to improve your lot for you.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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I'm not sure how to quantify the "crappy wages" at Aerogulf. All I can say is that I was on a 52K salary in the UK, and the money in my pocket at the end of the month here (Aerogulf) is only around 10% less than it was there, after tax. If you add in the accommodation, electricity, etc, it brings me to over 10% more, and if I had kids in school, it would be even better. The admin support is very good.
I certainly can't fault the maintenance!
Phil
I certainly can't fault the maintenance!
Phil
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Blackhearts Notoriety
Christmas is a great time to catch up with old Workmates.
Word from Canadian, Oz, Kiwi and Sth African friends is that blackhearts exploits in the orange hangar in Al Ain have spread far and wide!
As diseases like jaundice (orange, get it), stress, management lying and lifestyle erosion are to be avoided, staying away from the disease source is the prefered option for all.
Any proclamations from blackheart about a cure for these diseases ahould be answered with rule No1 "Never trust an A***".....
Seasons greetings to all instructors and engineers left at Horizon. I bet the job search is going on in earnest
Good Luck and get out before something really bad happens. You know who will wear the blame!
Word from Canadian, Oz, Kiwi and Sth African friends is that blackhearts exploits in the orange hangar in Al Ain have spread far and wide!
As diseases like jaundice (orange, get it), stress, management lying and lifestyle erosion are to be avoided, staying away from the disease source is the prefered option for all.
Any proclamations from blackheart about a cure for these diseases ahould be answered with rule No1 "Never trust an A***".....
Seasons greetings to all instructors and engineers left at Horizon. I bet the job search is going on in earnest
Good Luck and get out before something really bad happens. You know who will wear the blame!
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paco, you mean that you actually earn less at Aerogulf than you did in UK!!! It just goes to highlight how poor the wages are. I hear someone's just leaving there to go to Nigeria, things are so poor. I certainly left the Middle East with its dreadful pay and truly crap, uncaring employers and went to Africa. OK, the employers are only marginally better, but at least you have something like legal rights and the pay is far, far better. I'd never return to the Middle East unless the pay went up at least 30%. Aerogulf is probably the best employer, but the pay is a joke.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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You missed my point completely - the money in my pocket (i.e. after tax, and stuff that I can actually spend) is more here than it was in UK, despite the "high salary". Of course, there is no tax here.
I also don't spend 200 pounds a month on petrol just to get to work, and the grocery basket is a lot cheaper. You still need to get clothes in UK, though.
Phil
I also don't spend 200 pounds a month on petrol just to get to work, and the grocery basket is a lot cheaper. You still need to get clothes in UK, though.
Phil
Hi Paco,
I looked at Aerogulf a couple of years ago with the idea of coming out with the family and in the end was told by the ops manager that he felt he could not offer me a job because he felt I would not be able to afford it!!!!!! The cost of schooling is huge and was in no way covered by the measley allowance set at 15,000dhms per child. Looking at my 2 children at the secondary education stage, it would be costing between 80-100,000 dhms, leaving me some 50-70,000dhms short!!!
I left a copy of the relevant N.Sea pay rates which were well above the rates paid in Dubai. For a present comparison, on our current pay deal a high/mid range Captain will be on £85,000+pension+benefits by mid 2009 if RPI remains at c.2.5%.
At the end of the day people go to places like the Middle East to make money, not to be worse off than in their present job. The problem being for us in the UK, is that guys (and girls) from places like Canada, the US, Australia and New Zealand it seems, still have a decent standard of living back home with the present pay rates.
I looked at Aerogulf a couple of years ago with the idea of coming out with the family and in the end was told by the ops manager that he felt he could not offer me a job because he felt I would not be able to afford it!!!!!! The cost of schooling is huge and was in no way covered by the measley allowance set at 15,000dhms per child. Looking at my 2 children at the secondary education stage, it would be costing between 80-100,000 dhms, leaving me some 50-70,000dhms short!!!
I left a copy of the relevant N.Sea pay rates which were well above the rates paid in Dubai. For a present comparison, on our current pay deal a high/mid range Captain will be on £85,000+pension+benefits by mid 2009 if RPI remains at c.2.5%.
At the end of the day people go to places like the Middle East to make money, not to be worse off than in their present job. The problem being for us in the UK, is that guys (and girls) from places like Canada, the US, Australia and New Zealand it seems, still have a decent standard of living back home with the present pay rates.
The fallacy of someone in Paco's situation is he is not at home in the UK...and the money he is spending on rent could be spent on buying a home in the UK. If he is planning to retire in the ME and is buying a home there then he is on a good plan....otherwise he is going to be in for a shock when he tries to settle down at "home" unless he is banking a lot of money towards a down payment on that UK or retirement home somewhere.
While he is quite happy in the ME now...when he finally goes back to the the UK...he starts at the bottom of the pay scale and seniority list with no time in the pension fund. That is the down side to his situation as I see it.
No insult meant Paco....but it is something you have considered I am sure.
Helicopter jobs are usually not long tenured....for a host of reasons thus we always have to be looking down the road looking out for the pot holes coming up.
While he is quite happy in the ME now...when he finally goes back to the the UK...he starts at the bottom of the pay scale and seniority list with no time in the pension fund. That is the down side to his situation as I see it.
No insult meant Paco....but it is something you have considered I am sure.
Helicopter jobs are usually not long tenured....for a host of reasons thus we always have to be looking down the road looking out for the pot holes coming up.
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But I'm not renting out here! Accommodation (2-bed villa with furniture, electricity and phone) is included, as is schooling for children, if I had them. The mortgage is still being paid out of disposable income, which, as I said before is the equivalent of a 60K salary in the UK.
Aerogulf is flush with pilots right now, and there is a queue, and there are not many companies who can say that right now.
phil
Aerogulf is flush with pilots right now, and there is a queue, and there are not many companies who can say that right now.
phil
PACO,
Has Aerogulf changed its education allowance? As I said, the 15,000 would cover kids in nursery education but that was about it. I would be interested to find out if this has changed!!!!!?????
Has Aerogulf changed its education allowance? As I said, the 15,000 would cover kids in nursery education but that was about it. I would be interested to find out if this has changed!!!!!?????
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I'll ask for you - from what I gather they would appear to have - Rob Denehy is the current Director of Operations if you want to give him a bell
Phil
Phil
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Re: Flying in the Arabian Gulf
I quote:
"The school fee allowance has been increased by 30% above the figure you mentioned. This means that for children in Primary School (below age 12) most of the school fees are paid for by the company. However, the allowance will only pay for about 50% of school fees when children enter Secondary School."
Phil
"The school fee allowance has been increased by 30% above the figure you mentioned. This means that for children in Primary School (below age 12) most of the school fees are paid for by the company. However, the allowance will only pay for about 50% of school fees when children enter Secondary School."
Phil
Re: Flying in the Arabian Gulf
Outhouse,
I am in the same situation as you ....in the past I have found few operators that are flexible enough to accomodate those of us who do not wish to fall into slot 6 on the crew board for the rest of our lives despite offering to work all 36 slots at some time in order to have a specific two or three weeks off each year. As we reach this point in life..we have a grand tolerance for boredom and hardship but want to enjoy those short periods of time that are out of our control but hold special interest to us.
Wages and benefits at some point become secondary to our need to pursue that special bit of entertainment we have missed out on for most of our lives.
For me that is the first three weeks in November...the other 48 weeks of the year I could care less where I am, how long I am there, and what I am doing....but those three weeks are important.
I understand the complexity of running a scheduling board....but at some point the people have to come first if one wishes to maintain well experienced and reliable staff.
The Honey Do list can be manipulated if not ignored unless the Boss Lady corners you....and at our age...holidays don't mean much but time off is important.
New rumour heard....Aramco has an exodus of Expats going on...and hiring of consultant pilots cannot keep up with the turnover. A109's in service but reserved for non-expat non-consultant pilots. Consultants might one day advance to the 206's after decades on 212/412's as copilots. Can anyone confirm that situation?
I am in the same situation as you ....in the past I have found few operators that are flexible enough to accomodate those of us who do not wish to fall into slot 6 on the crew board for the rest of our lives despite offering to work all 36 slots at some time in order to have a specific two or three weeks off each year. As we reach this point in life..we have a grand tolerance for boredom and hardship but want to enjoy those short periods of time that are out of our control but hold special interest to us.
Wages and benefits at some point become secondary to our need to pursue that special bit of entertainment we have missed out on for most of our lives.
For me that is the first three weeks in November...the other 48 weeks of the year I could care less where I am, how long I am there, and what I am doing....but those three weeks are important.
I understand the complexity of running a scheduling board....but at some point the people have to come first if one wishes to maintain well experienced and reliable staff.
The Honey Do list can be manipulated if not ignored unless the Boss Lady corners you....and at our age...holidays don't mean much but time off is important.
New rumour heard....Aramco has an exodus of Expats going on...and hiring of consultant pilots cannot keep up with the turnover. A109's in service but reserved for non-expat non-consultant pilots. Consultants might one day advance to the 206's after decades on 212/412's as copilots. Can anyone confirm that situation?
Last edited by SASless; 2nd Jan 2006 at 23:02.
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Re: Flying in the Arabian Gulf
LOL - the Honey Do list! I've got one of those, too, but it lasts a lot longer than 3 weeks! As for time off, Aerogulf have a night duty followed by two days off, so effectively you get 4 days off, except for the minor inconvenience of having to sleep one night on the rig - you're back in by 8 o'clock the next day with no further duties. Excellent if you've got another business to run!
Phil
Phil
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Re: Flying in the Arabian Gulf
SASless,
Concerning Saudi Aramco, we sent out 13 pilots in 2005 for A-109E training. Of those 13, 1 was a Saudi National and the rest were Expat Aramcoms. You are correct in the fact that we do not have any Consultant pilots flying the A-109E at this time. However, of the 7 Expat Consultants that we currently employ, 3 are 212/412 PIC's and 2 are 206 PIC's.
We have had a couple of consultant pilots leave lately, but that is the nature of the beast.
I have been here for 14 years and we have several pilots who have been here for 19 years. Life is tough here in the desert.
Concerning Saudi Aramco, we sent out 13 pilots in 2005 for A-109E training. Of those 13, 1 was a Saudi National and the rest were Expat Aramcoms. You are correct in the fact that we do not have any Consultant pilots flying the A-109E at this time. However, of the 7 Expat Consultants that we currently employ, 3 are 212/412 PIC's and 2 are 206 PIC's.
We have had a couple of consultant pilots leave lately, but that is the nature of the beast.
I have been here for 14 years and we have several pilots who have been here for 19 years. Life is tough here in the desert.
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Sheikh Maktoum from Dubai Passes Away
For those who have an interest in the Middle East just heard on the radio and conf through friends in Dubai that Sheikh Maktoum died of a heart attack.
He was one of the three brothers that have transformed the UAE into what it is today.
May He Rest in Peace.
He was one of the three brothers that have transformed the UAE into what it is today.
May He Rest in Peace.