Flying in the Persian/Arabian Gulf
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Training at GHC
My sources tell me that the recent sad demise (bullet on weekend leave) of the Training manager at GHC, training still continues apace. There was a huge loss of interest from the other training Captains though - and two have now left and another 1 or two have/are going to resign as they feel that tenure is not necessarily so good if you want to be professional and honest about people's standards. It would appear that no-one wants the TM job for this very reason right now - and although much reassurance has supposedly been supplied by the new A/CP on that score, seeing is believing. In the end it's always just safer and far easier being a straight line jo.
One suspects that overall, GHC will get worse before it gets better - as although the pilot numbers ARE increasing (overall) the experience level in country is reported to have fallen drastically and all of the old hands are still looking elsewhere - I am told that they have had the same bulldust for a few years now and nothing is changing on the senior management level to make them think that good times are ahead??? Sad for such a promising place and company that leadership is so sadly lacking/screwed up! Rumour control says that many ADA guys are now looking towards Doha as the SWAMP (van land) in AD is now falling apart and the Doha guys have a really nice set-up in compound villas. You pays your money and takes your choice guys, I suppose!
One suspects that overall, GHC will get worse before it gets better - as although the pilot numbers ARE increasing (overall) the experience level in country is reported to have fallen drastically and all of the old hands are still looking elsewhere - I am told that they have had the same bulldust for a few years now and nothing is changing on the senior management level to make them think that good times are ahead??? Sad for such a promising place and company that leadership is so sadly lacking/screwed up! Rumour control says that many ADA guys are now looking towards Doha as the SWAMP (van land) in AD is now falling apart and the Doha guys have a really nice set-up in compound villas. You pays your money and takes your choice guys, I suppose!
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It was exactly the same at Al Dhafra in the early 90s split shifts from an 0600 start possibly night flying until 0200 the following morning. Just smile and take the Dirham or object and come home. Thats life in the Middle East.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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If you want to run a school on the european JAR standards, should you not employ the european JAR standards for all of your training?
ie Should the HOT not be JAR rather than adverise in Australia?
Should the Instructors not follow a JAR FCL FTL scheme?
How do the local authority approve the training if it is not so?
Do the local authority helicopter examiners accept the standards if they are not JAR?
ie Should the HOT not be JAR rather than adverise in Australia?
Should the Instructors not follow a JAR FCL FTL scheme?
How do the local authority approve the training if it is not so?
Do the local authority helicopter examiners accept the standards if they are not JAR?
Join Date: Nov 2004
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As I understand it the local authority (the GCAA) would not recognise a helicopter if it landed on their head. They have no examiners, inspectors or anyone with helicopter experience.
The current GM was given his license beacause he bought the head of licensing a nice paperweight with the Horizon logo on it. Much more important than any flight check!
Do not even imagine that Horizon will be training people to JAR standards. If it was, then they would allow JAR standards to operate throughout the operation.
No, Horizon's primary role is to look nice, which will work great, right up until the first accident. The fun then will be working out who the GM will blame, as none of the gross mismanagement, poor allocation of resources, breaches of regulations etc, will be his fault!
Makes me glad I never went there, but I feel sorry for the poor b*stards who are still there when the wheel comes off.
The current GM was given his license beacause he bought the head of licensing a nice paperweight with the Horizon logo on it. Much more important than any flight check!
Do not even imagine that Horizon will be training people to JAR standards. If it was, then they would allow JAR standards to operate throughout the operation.
No, Horizon's primary role is to look nice, which will work great, right up until the first accident. The fun then will be working out who the GM will blame, as none of the gross mismanagement, poor allocation of resources, breaches of regulations etc, will be his fault!
Makes me glad I never went there, but I feel sorry for the poor b*stards who are still there when the wheel comes off.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Middle East
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Think Carefully
Well I guess it had to start sometime. The first terrorist car bomb went off last night in Doha around 2200, killing one Britain and injuring 12. The bomb was placed outside the Doha Players Theatre (a favourite expat haunt and accross the road from the Doha English Speaking School).
In relation to the "interesting" Currency Adjustment Allowance which was introduced by Guld Helis in December, it has now gone down by $4 a day. Funny, just about all currencies have strengthened against the US$ but Gulf has found some way of reducing the allowance. What a surprise! Since this allowance was introduced 7 captains have left so obviously the allowance is working a treat ;-)
Just about every captain in Gulf has be offered or re-offered Line Training positions. Funny, nobody seems to be jumping at the opportunity to earn an extra $10 a day (for touring pilots) and being called a racist and asked to leave the country within a few days!
Think carefully about any move to Gulf Helis.
In relation to the "interesting" Currency Adjustment Allowance which was introduced by Guld Helis in December, it has now gone down by $4 a day. Funny, just about all currencies have strengthened against the US$ but Gulf has found some way of reducing the allowance. What a surprise! Since this allowance was introduced 7 captains have left so obviously the allowance is working a treat ;-)
Just about every captain in Gulf has be offered or re-offered Line Training positions. Funny, nobody seems to be jumping at the opportunity to earn an extra $10 a day (for touring pilots) and being called a racist and asked to leave the country within a few days!
Think carefully about any move to Gulf Helis.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Xavier and Cheese
It is important to get things in perspective.
Xavier - you are absolutely correct - the school is attempting to run and train "in accordance with JAR principles", however as the UAE will never be recognised as a JAR approved state there is no requirement for JAR policy to be followed de rigeur. The original management wished to follow the JAR route to provide some standardisation and credibility for the training carried out, in addition it may be worthwhile for students in the future to at least be able to say that they have been trained in accordance with JAR standards and syllabus etc.
Cheese - I hear what you are saying, however the standard of training and instruction is not in question. Without doubt, Horizon has some of the most capable instructors in the world here and the students can only benefit from that. They are receiving instruction that in my estimation surpasses any provided by most if not all JAR flying schools elsewhere - the standard of instruction is not an issue, it is the support and conditions under which everyone has to work that is the issue.
As far as JAR licences etc go - the students receive a GCAA licence, NOT a JAR licence. It just happens that we teach to the JAR syllabus which far exceeds the requirements of the GCAA . The problem arises now in that the current management will compromise those standards when and as it sees fit simply to try and achieve the primary aim of turning students through the school. As has been stated before on this thread - Horizon will not simply disappear - it has too much local backing and investment for that to happen. What will happen however, is that instead of it becoming a premier training organisation in the Middle East as was planned by the original management, it will turn in to yet another mediocre, military based training establishment that simply turns out numbers to meet demand and to hell with the quality. Personally i would be very surprised to see any of the originally hired instructors here within the next 18 months or so. I think instead there will be many instructors (Pakistani?)from the now defunct military school who are brought out of retirement and brought back to UAE. It is quite possible that many of these guys were / are very capable instructors - I personally didn't know them so can't comment on that aspect - but what is for sure is that they will be happy to work for a lot less money and will simply do what they are told. Inevitably the standards will fall in the long run.
It is important to get things in perspective.
Xavier - you are absolutely correct - the school is attempting to run and train "in accordance with JAR principles", however as the UAE will never be recognised as a JAR approved state there is no requirement for JAR policy to be followed de rigeur. The original management wished to follow the JAR route to provide some standardisation and credibility for the training carried out, in addition it may be worthwhile for students in the future to at least be able to say that they have been trained in accordance with JAR standards and syllabus etc.
Cheese - I hear what you are saying, however the standard of training and instruction is not in question. Without doubt, Horizon has some of the most capable instructors in the world here and the students can only benefit from that. They are receiving instruction that in my estimation surpasses any provided by most if not all JAR flying schools elsewhere - the standard of instruction is not an issue, it is the support and conditions under which everyone has to work that is the issue.
As far as JAR licences etc go - the students receive a GCAA licence, NOT a JAR licence. It just happens that we teach to the JAR syllabus which far exceeds the requirements of the GCAA . The problem arises now in that the current management will compromise those standards when and as it sees fit simply to try and achieve the primary aim of turning students through the school. As has been stated before on this thread - Horizon will not simply disappear - it has too much local backing and investment for that to happen. What will happen however, is that instead of it becoming a premier training organisation in the Middle East as was planned by the original management, it will turn in to yet another mediocre, military based training establishment that simply turns out numbers to meet demand and to hell with the quality. Personally i would be very surprised to see any of the originally hired instructors here within the next 18 months or so. I think instead there will be many instructors (Pakistani?)from the now defunct military school who are brought out of retirement and brought back to UAE. It is quite possible that many of these guys were / are very capable instructors - I personally didn't know them so can't comment on that aspect - but what is for sure is that they will be happy to work for a lot less money and will simply do what they are told. Inevitably the standards will fall in the long run.
Join Date: May 2004
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STATS OC Reincarnated?
Having read through these threads and received an email from an interested party, its sounds to me that the situation at Al Ain has not progressed one jot since I was there with STATS in 1990-92.
We were engaged to help set up the UAE Air Force training and operations on similar lines to the British Military. We seemed to be fairly successful at the time in spite of AA and even had CFS Staff from Shawbury visit to validate and examine a QHI course we had set up.
I thought Horizon had been set up to train for civilian licences but it seems they are still training for military forces.
I had applied for the post of HOT but was ‘Black Balled’ by an AA who I had difficulties with during my last stint at Bateen and Al Dhafra. Looking at the present situation he has done me a favour.
The main problem with working in the Middle East is that in their minds AA no longer need us for financial or military support as such. However, they still need the westerners’ know how and management skills. We have become the ‘hired hands’’ and once our usefulness is seen by them is no longer there then it’s goodbye.
The AA cannot lose face and if you make a suggestion that he can’t readily accept and it shows up his inadequacies then beware. You maybe on the next flight home.
If you guys can bite the bullet and keep the bank account rolling over then good luck. I must say I enjoyed the expat community in Abu Dhabi and Dubai and miss it.
SH
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Hey, Teletubby....
These expats live in big villas, pocket fat tax free salaries, drive top of the range cars and their children go to private schools and have access to top medical doctors. They wine and dine in 5 star hotels and are enjoying their stay.
Do they have non-private schools for expat kids in Al Ain ??
Do they drive to Dubai to see a doctor ??
Where are the 4 and 3 star hotels in Al Ain. What do you want them to do? Stay home in their huge villas ??
Doesn't sound much like they are enjoying their stay to me.
Etihad Airways has selected Horizon on a long term contract for training of its pilots. Etihad has recently signed the biggest contract with Boeing And Airbus for its 777 and A 380 aircraft.
or are Horizon getting Airbuses ??
Last edited by African Queen; 4th Apr 2005 at 05:47.
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I understand that the new (Local) General Manager of Horizon at one point withheld the passport of one of the PHS Instructors after he resigned. A bit strange since the expatriate involved was not a Horizon employee at the time. Can anyone tell me whether this has happened again or a threat to do such a thing has been implied?
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"Cheseburger"
I have not heard any rumours of another school starting up here in Abu Dhabi ...please expand ???
"dipboss"
If the instructor s Visa was sponsored into the country by Horizon then his passport would have been held for Visa cancellation by the sponsor only whilst he was to exit the country ... ..perhaps there is more to this issue than meets the eye!
the UAE local law is quite specific ...NO Employer may hold a passport of an employee (without his permission) ...it is a punishable (?)offense....the passport is a document OWNED only by the country issuing it and NOT by the holder ...and that seems to have been emphasised to the UAE authorities by the many Governments who have in the past had issues with various UAE employers who HAVE illegally held passports to inhibit employees absconding which then causes problems for those employers getting replacement workers a work visa.
Thats the way it is!
Cheers
I have not heard any rumours of another school starting up here in Abu Dhabi ...please expand ???
"dipboss"
If the instructor s Visa was sponsored into the country by Horizon then his passport would have been held for Visa cancellation by the sponsor only whilst he was to exit the country ... ..perhaps there is more to this issue than meets the eye!
the UAE local law is quite specific ...NO Employer may hold a passport of an employee (without his permission) ...it is a punishable (?)offense....the passport is a document OWNED only by the country issuing it and NOT by the holder ...and that seems to have been emphasised to the UAE authorities by the many Governments who have in the past had issues with various UAE employers who HAVE illegally held passports to inhibit employees absconding which then causes problems for those employers getting replacement workers a work visa.
Thats the way it is!
Cheers
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There was a lot of discussion about the holding of passports. It used to be the military policy hence the current GM was very keen that Horizon should hold all Passports. If it were not for the intervention of the old GM, then it would have been the Horizon Policy.
There was an incident with an ex PHS guy who decided not to stay on, and the new GM tried to have his passport held "until the completion of the clearing process". This guy had no contract with Horizon.
UAE labour law is a nice book that sits on a shelf, and outside of Dubai it is seldom observed. Horizon with its flight duty hours is breaking UAE Labour law.
There was an incident with an ex PHS guy who decided not to stay on, and the new GM tried to have his passport held "until the completion of the clearing process". This guy had no contract with Horizon.
UAE labour law is a nice book that sits on a shelf, and outside of Dubai it is seldom observed. Horizon with its flight duty hours is breaking UAE Labour law.
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Helicopter Bell 206 & Bell 412 Head of Training, Ground and Flight Instructors (8 positions available)
Region: United Arab Emirates
Company: Betts Recruitment Ltd
Position type: Contract
Posted: Wednesday 6 April 2005
Job type(s): Flight crew, Instructors, Managerial and Executive, Operations and ATC
Description: Our Client, based in Abu Dhabi, UAE supplies aircraft parts, components, entire systems, technical servicing, maintenance and consulting studies to military and civilian users. Now developing their Flight School services, they wish to hire the following senior personnel:
a) 1 x Head of Training
b) 1 x Ground Instructor
c) 1 x Helicopter Chief Flight Instructor
d) 5 x Helicopter Flight Instructors
You must be a citizen of the EU
Be a holder of either JAA or other European Licenses only
Have a minimum 3,000 flight hours logged
Helicopter flying experience on Bell 206, 412 is highly desirable
Our Client offers:
Excellent Tax Free Expatriate Package
Excellent housing allowance in Abu Dhabi, UAE
Education package for children
Free Medical Care
Free air tickets for self and family
Paid leave (36 days/yr)
Minimum 2 year renewable contract
This can't be Horizon!
Region: United Arab Emirates
Company: Betts Recruitment Ltd
Position type: Contract
Posted: Wednesday 6 April 2005
Job type(s): Flight crew, Instructors, Managerial and Executive, Operations and ATC
Description: Our Client, based in Abu Dhabi, UAE supplies aircraft parts, components, entire systems, technical servicing, maintenance and consulting studies to military and civilian users. Now developing their Flight School services, they wish to hire the following senior personnel:
a) 1 x Head of Training
b) 1 x Ground Instructor
c) 1 x Helicopter Chief Flight Instructor
d) 5 x Helicopter Flight Instructors
You must be a citizen of the EU
Be a holder of either JAA or other European Licenses only
Have a minimum 3,000 flight hours logged
Helicopter flying experience on Bell 206, 412 is highly desirable
Our Client offers:
Excellent Tax Free Expatriate Package
Excellent housing allowance in Abu Dhabi, UAE
Education package for children
Free Medical Care
Free air tickets for self and family
Paid leave (36 days/yr)
Minimum 2 year renewable contract
This can't be Horizon!
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Warbler discussions
Heard all about this outfit at the Warbler 
in Bahrain during the Grand Prix...
The news from Gulf Air and Etihad peoples is to steer clear. This opinion is totally validated in previous posts.
Apparently they target the engineers as well as instructors, 3 engineers so far have got the bullet from Blackheart...
Will ask around at Emirates for more gossip. Hmmm.
Late note: Line Up has advertised for lots of instructors. Basically the same as the previous post.
Beer Time
in Bahrain during the Grand Prix...The news from Gulf Air and Etihad peoples is to steer clear. This opinion is totally validated in previous posts.
Apparently they target the engineers as well as instructors, 3 engineers so far have got the bullet from Blackheart...
Will ask around at Emirates for more gossip. Hmmm.
Late note: Line Up has advertised for lots of instructors. Basically the same as the previous post.
Beer Time
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I recieved a phone message that was not clear, I think from Horizon. Can anyone over there tell me has anything changed yet. It seems they need instructors, but I don't want to go unless it is all settled and people are happy? I please ask to hear from someone at horizon that all is ok with the new CFI?
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Gulf Helicopters Recruitment
Region: Qatar
Company: Gulf Helicopters
Salary: Excellent
Position type: Permanent
Posted: Monday 2 May 2005
Job type(s): Flight crew
Description: GULF HELICOPTERS COMPANY – DOHA, QATAR
Prefer Bell 412/212 Type Rated with minimum 100 hours on type
Recently ENHANCED TAX FREE remuneration package.
Hey there fellow Pruners. This is my first post so bare with me if I am not totally "Prune Current". My post relates to the following:
Above is the latest listing from Gulf Helicopters. I have the required experiece and mins for the job(s), hours and CIR renewals etc, however no 412/212 time. The add doesn't specify if the listing is for Co-pilots or Captains and what the ball park Tax free salary is for Captains and Coees and if the 412 endorsement is an absolute requirement.
If any one out there knows the answers to the above queries and what life is like working in Qatar/Doha, could you please let me know either via post or e-mail. I am Sikorsky trained and endorsed and am looking at working in UAE.
Serious responses Please.
Company: Gulf Helicopters
Salary: Excellent
Position type: Permanent
Posted: Monday 2 May 2005
Job type(s): Flight crew
Description: GULF HELICOPTERS COMPANY – DOHA, QATAR
Prefer Bell 412/212 Type Rated with minimum 100 hours on type
Recently ENHANCED TAX FREE remuneration package.
Hey there fellow Pruners. This is my first post so bare with me if I am not totally "Prune Current". My post relates to the following:
Above is the latest listing from Gulf Helicopters. I have the required experiece and mins for the job(s), hours and CIR renewals etc, however no 412/212 time. The add doesn't specify if the listing is for Co-pilots or Captains and what the ball park Tax free salary is for Captains and Coees and if the 412 endorsement is an absolute requirement.
If any one out there knows the answers to the above queries and what life is like working in Qatar/Doha, could you please let me know either via post or e-mail. I am Sikorsky trained and endorsed and am looking at working in UAE.
Serious responses Please.
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Gulf Helicopters
Is it not strange that this ad has been running for about 7 months now.
I know of a lot of people(10+) that responded and do fill the criteria and heard nothing again.
Look at their web page for requirements.
Must be somekind of info gathering excercise or they have a huge turnover of crew.
I smell something
I know of a lot of people(10+) that responded and do fill the criteria and heard nothing again.
Look at their web page for requirements.
Must be somekind of info gathering excercise or they have a huge turnover of crew.
I smell something
High turnover would be about it I reckon.
Recently enhanced pay is CRAP. They gave an allowance to compensate for exchange rate fluctuations. Guess what? They have already reduced once, I bet they'll whittle it down to nothing as soon as they can.
Accommodation is OK, work is CRAP, management is CRAP. Oh and don't forget the Indian Mafia who run the travel/pay/accounts/admin/HR....."What do you mean that allowance is in the company manual Mr XXX. Let me see that (rrriiiiiiiiippppppp). There, that seems to have fixed that issue. Good Day". So ends the proof that an allowance existed that you weren't being payed for. Good luck. Take a straight jacket, you'll need it!!!!
noooby
Recently enhanced pay is CRAP. They gave an allowance to compensate for exchange rate fluctuations. Guess what? They have already reduced once, I bet they'll whittle it down to nothing as soon as they can.
Accommodation is OK, work is CRAP, management is CRAP. Oh and don't forget the Indian Mafia who run the travel/pay/accounts/admin/HR....."What do you mean that allowance is in the company manual Mr XXX. Let me see that (rrriiiiiiiiippppppp). There, that seems to have fixed that issue. Good Day". So ends the proof that an allowance existed that you weren't being payed for. Good luck. Take a straight jacket, you'll need it!!!!
noooby