EC120
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EC120/B206
From my limited experience in both I can say the following
The EC120 doesn't have as much power as the 206,VEMD on the EC is good. One thing I find a help is the recording of a "gong" if you pull too much power for too long, at least you know when someone has done something bad, whereas in the 206 you wouldn't have a clue. If you're the only person flying the A/C then it's ok, but if you're at an operator that has many pilots of varying levels I would prefer to know if someone has wound the machine.
Aircon as standard in the EC is nice, specially in Africa and it seems to work well, does drip every now and then, the door ejectors are also cool if you're autorotating with an engine failure into water without floats(I know that should never happen but it just did in Cape Town a month ago and a student died)
What I don't like is that the rotors turn the other way, nothing major but as you enter an auto and you instinctivly push in the pedal/which one was it again
you sometimes get a surprise when it yaws the wrong way.
EC is also like the Squirrel, comes off one one skid first whereas the 206 comes up straight normally, you also have to give a good bit of right pedal when you're pulling power for the lift off so that you don't cause a problem (something to do with the Fenesrton effect).
Shutdown in the EC is way faster than the 206, that two mins at idle in the 206 is 30 secs in the EC, if you're doing short hops it all adds up.
Seats in the EC also have some kind of loading structure that if you come in hard in an auto they collapse a certain way to protect you, someone with more knowlege can ellaborate.
Auto's in the EC are FAST compared to the 206, the fall out the sky, the 206 seems to glide more
If I had to choose I suppose it would be the EC for me, but that's because the EC I fly only has 200hrs on it and the 206 has 3500hrs. If I really had the choice it would be an AS350.
My 5 cents
The EC120 doesn't have as much power as the 206,VEMD on the EC is good. One thing I find a help is the recording of a "gong" if you pull too much power for too long, at least you know when someone has done something bad, whereas in the 206 you wouldn't have a clue. If you're the only person flying the A/C then it's ok, but if you're at an operator that has many pilots of varying levels I would prefer to know if someone has wound the machine.
Aircon as standard in the EC is nice, specially in Africa and it seems to work well, does drip every now and then, the door ejectors are also cool if you're autorotating with an engine failure into water without floats(I know that should never happen but it just did in Cape Town a month ago and a student died)
What I don't like is that the rotors turn the other way, nothing major but as you enter an auto and you instinctivly push in the pedal/which one was it again
you sometimes get a surprise when it yaws the wrong way.EC is also like the Squirrel, comes off one one skid first whereas the 206 comes up straight normally, you also have to give a good bit of right pedal when you're pulling power for the lift off so that you don't cause a problem (something to do with the Fenesrton effect).
Shutdown in the EC is way faster than the 206, that two mins at idle in the 206 is 30 secs in the EC, if you're doing short hops it all adds up.
Seats in the EC also have some kind of loading structure that if you come in hard in an auto they collapse a certain way to protect you, someone with more knowlege can ellaborate.
Auto's in the EC are FAST compared to the 206, the fall out the sky, the 206 seems to glide more
If I had to choose I suppose it would be the EC for me, but that's because the EC I fly only has 200hrs on it and the 206 has 3500hrs. If I really had the choice it would be an AS350.
My 5 cents
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Heli Sticktime - could you define "not as much power as the 206"? And did the police helicopter mentioned above have the usual accessories attached to it to make it heavier?
Phil
Phil
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The 206 has the "bathtub" - the lower part of the fuselage - to absorb shock in a crash. I know from experience that it works. It once saved me from a broken back or worse...
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How things change...
Here is a press release from EC listing the equipment in the 120's, and another example of how things change in a short time...
Date 1/24/2000
San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department Adds EC120s To Fleet
Las Vegas, Nev. - San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department will take possession of the first two EC120s to be used in Law Enforcement in the United States. These aircraft are being featured at this year's HAI convention. Two more are scheduled for delivery in mid-2000.
San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department obtained its first helicopter in 1970. Over the course of the last 30 years, it has increased its fleet to 13 aircraft, including 11 civil and military surplus helicopters, and 2 fixed wing aircraft.
San Bernardino County is the largest county in the continental United States, with more than 20,000 square miles. In fact, it could hold 5 New England states within its boundaries. "We needed an aircraft that is extremely quiet, and can stay airborne for an exceptionally long time. It also had to perform well at high altitudes, as our terrain ranges all the way up to 12,500 feet," said the Department's Commander, Capt. Don Belter. "We found that the EC120 is capable in all conditions, and can stay in the air for up to 4 hours. We were impressed at how well it performed in 110-degree weather."
The department is replacing part of its fleet with the EC120, thanks to the aircraft's superior capabilities. "We checked out several aircraft in the same class, and found that nothing compares with the EC120," said Sheriff Gary Penrod.
All 14 of the pilots have already attended the training for the EC120, and everyone is excited about it. "Another reason we are especially pleased with Eurocopter is because of the professional treatment we received by everyone, from the exemplary sales staff, all the way up to American Eurocopter's President Christian Gras. "
The EC120 is the perfect multi-mission, light single-engine helicopter. Its design and performance characteristics lend itself to be well suited for a wide range of law enforcement functions, such as Patrol Support, Fire-Fighting, EMS, and SAR. These functions are all part of San Bernardino's duties in their Airborne Law Enforcement Air Support mission.
San Bernardino County's custom configuration includes a PA system installation, dual sensor (video/thermal imagery) manufactured by FLIR, as well as an Airborne Data Terminal. The FLIR system can track moving targets, while a moving map system assists the crew in navigating to any street address in Southern California.
COUNTY OF SAN BERNARDINO 2005 FEDERAL LEGISLATIVE PLATFORM
Amended and Updated 02-28-2005
REPLACEMENT OF AIRCRAFT Funding Request: $7,744,689
The EC-120 does not have enough power for safely conducting missions at high altitude. The EC-120 is not capable of being used as a firefighting helicopter.
During the hot summer months (peak fire season) the EC-120 is often unable to land off-site to pick-up fire command personnel for airborne assessments.
The EC-120 is also incapable of rescuing victims who are caught mid-stream in flash flood environments. Yucca Valley and Morongo Basin “monsoons” routinely result in victims being caught in flash floods and public safety personnel are required to engage in extremely dangerous ground based “swift-water” rescue efforts.
Date 1/24/2000
San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department Adds EC120s To Fleet
Las Vegas, Nev. - San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department will take possession of the first two EC120s to be used in Law Enforcement in the United States. These aircraft are being featured at this year's HAI convention. Two more are scheduled for delivery in mid-2000.
San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department obtained its first helicopter in 1970. Over the course of the last 30 years, it has increased its fleet to 13 aircraft, including 11 civil and military surplus helicopters, and 2 fixed wing aircraft.
San Bernardino County is the largest county in the continental United States, with more than 20,000 square miles. In fact, it could hold 5 New England states within its boundaries. "We needed an aircraft that is extremely quiet, and can stay airborne for an exceptionally long time. It also had to perform well at high altitudes, as our terrain ranges all the way up to 12,500 feet," said the Department's Commander, Capt. Don Belter. "We found that the EC120 is capable in all conditions, and can stay in the air for up to 4 hours. We were impressed at how well it performed in 110-degree weather."
The department is replacing part of its fleet with the EC120, thanks to the aircraft's superior capabilities. "We checked out several aircraft in the same class, and found that nothing compares with the EC120," said Sheriff Gary Penrod.
All 14 of the pilots have already attended the training for the EC120, and everyone is excited about it. "Another reason we are especially pleased with Eurocopter is because of the professional treatment we received by everyone, from the exemplary sales staff, all the way up to American Eurocopter's President Christian Gras. "
The EC120 is the perfect multi-mission, light single-engine helicopter. Its design and performance characteristics lend itself to be well suited for a wide range of law enforcement functions, such as Patrol Support, Fire-Fighting, EMS, and SAR. These functions are all part of San Bernardino's duties in their Airborne Law Enforcement Air Support mission.
San Bernardino County's custom configuration includes a PA system installation, dual sensor (video/thermal imagery) manufactured by FLIR, as well as an Airborne Data Terminal. The FLIR system can track moving targets, while a moving map system assists the crew in navigating to any street address in Southern California.
COUNTY OF SAN BERNARDINO 2005 FEDERAL LEGISLATIVE PLATFORM
Amended and Updated 02-28-2005
REPLACEMENT OF AIRCRAFT Funding Request: $7,744,689
The EC-120 does not have enough power for safely conducting missions at high altitude. The EC-120 is not capable of being used as a firefighting helicopter.
During the hot summer months (peak fire season) the EC-120 is often unable to land off-site to pick-up fire command personnel for airborne assessments.
The EC-120 is also incapable of rescuing victims who are caught mid-stream in flash flood environments. Yucca Valley and Morongo Basin “monsoons” routinely result in victims being caught in flash floods and public safety personnel are required to engage in extremely dangerous ground based “swift-water” rescue efforts.
Gatvol
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NTSB Identification: LAX05GA231
14 CFR Public Use
Accident occurred Wednesday, July 13, 2005 in Fair Oaks, CA
Aircraft: Eurocopter France EC120B, registration: N266SD
Injuries: 2 Fatal, 1 Serious.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On July 13, 2005, about 1910 Pacific daylight time, an Eurocopter EC120B, N266SD, experienced a loss of engine power and collided with terrain near Fair Oaks, California. The Sacramento County Sheriff's Department was operating the public-use helicopter under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91. The commercial pilot and the student pilot rated observer sustained fatal injuries, and the observer trainee sustained serious injuries. The helicopter sustained substantial damage. The local flight departed Mather, California. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. The approximate global positioning system (GPS) coordinates of the primary wreckage were 38 degrees 38 minutes north latitude and 121 degrees 13 minutes west longitude.
About 1910, the pilot transmitted "Mayday, mayday, mayday, we're going down." Within minutes of the mayday call, several people reported that they had just witnessed a possible helicopter crash. Witnesses reported hearing a "popping" noise and observed flames and smoke emitting from the exhaust of the helicopter just prior to impact. A grass fire consumed the hillside just above the accident site.
The helicopter was reported to be flying over steep, hilly, terrain. It impacted near the bottom of a 60-degree sloped hillside and rolled on its side after coming to rest at the base of the hill.
Post accident examination revealed a total loss of the free turbine blades. The main rotor blades revealed low rotational energy at the time of impact.
14 CFR Public Use
Accident occurred Wednesday, July 13, 2005 in Fair Oaks, CA
Aircraft: Eurocopter France EC120B, registration: N266SD
Injuries: 2 Fatal, 1 Serious.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On July 13, 2005, about 1910 Pacific daylight time, an Eurocopter EC120B, N266SD, experienced a loss of engine power and collided with terrain near Fair Oaks, California. The Sacramento County Sheriff's Department was operating the public-use helicopter under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91. The commercial pilot and the student pilot rated observer sustained fatal injuries, and the observer trainee sustained serious injuries. The helicopter sustained substantial damage. The local flight departed Mather, California. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. The approximate global positioning system (GPS) coordinates of the primary wreckage were 38 degrees 38 minutes north latitude and 121 degrees 13 minutes west longitude.
About 1910, the pilot transmitted "Mayday, mayday, mayday, we're going down." Within minutes of the mayday call, several people reported that they had just witnessed a possible helicopter crash. Witnesses reported hearing a "popping" noise and observed flames and smoke emitting from the exhaust of the helicopter just prior to impact. A grass fire consumed the hillside just above the accident site.
The helicopter was reported to be flying over steep, hilly, terrain. It impacted near the bottom of a 60-degree sloped hillside and rolled on its side after coming to rest at the base of the hill.
Post accident examination revealed a total loss of the free turbine blades. The main rotor blades revealed low rotational energy at the time of impact.
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Having been in a past life involved in customizing police helicopters . I can tell you that the people who select the mission equipment often have little real appreciation of the weight they are adding. I must say the salesmen , who should know better do not always advise the customer well.
To compare apples to apples you should see how much useful mass ( above basic weight of minimum equipped aircraft plus pilot and fuel ) each helicopter can lift on a 20 deg day. Even though the 206B3 does not have crash attenuating seats ( that add about 200 Lbs to basic weight ) . That said the 120 has useful load 97 kg greater than 206 with c20B hover OGE at 2000 meters and isa +10 but 18 kg less at 2000 meters ISA +20 according to manufacturers charts ( in the marketing info ). The 206 manual does not list weight of crash attenuating seats , though I think they are fittted to the TH57 .
To compare apples to apples you should see how much useful mass ( above basic weight of minimum equipped aircraft plus pilot and fuel ) each helicopter can lift on a 20 deg day. Even though the 206B3 does not have crash attenuating seats ( that add about 200 Lbs to basic weight ) . That said the 120 has useful load 97 kg greater than 206 with c20B hover OGE at 2000 meters and isa +10 but 18 kg less at 2000 meters ISA +20 according to manufacturers charts ( in the marketing info ). The 206 manual does not list weight of crash attenuating seats , though I think they are fittted to the TH57 .
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the san bernardino ships had a full load
- sx-16 and associated mount, jbox etc
- flir 7500, mount, dovetail,
- full radios pkg
- loud speakers
- crew kits
- mp-5
in other words, for 120, they were loaded.
- sx-16 and associated mount, jbox etc
- flir 7500, mount, dovetail,
- full radios pkg
- loud speakers
- crew kits
- mp-5
in other words, for 120, they were loaded.
While we are on the subject I would appreciate some info from any operators which have experience based figures on the difference in operating costs betwen the EC120/B206. I'm more interested in the time-life components costs reduced to "per hour" rather than fuel etc. Thanks in advance.
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IMHO you will need to be more specificbefore anyone could give you a clue here. What are you doing with this EC120 = insurance = private or commercial = maintenance plan with whom = pilot experiance = value = fuel costs = hangarage = etc
Cool as a moosp
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We as owners and operators of an EC120 have found that the Conklin and Decker figures are a good base. Apply your own area's costs to their framework and you will be within a bulls roar of a good estimate.
If you cannot afford the C & D report, you cannot afford the machine...
If you cannot afford the C & D report, you cannot afford the machine...
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EC120 Governor failure
Heard SANParks EC120 recently had a governor failure. Anyone with more info? Was it a once off, or is it going to be something to watch for in the EC120?
Gatvol
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Had a major fatal in the U.S. a few months ago with something in that area. Think it was a problem was found to be in the Fuel Control.
NTSB Identification: LAX05GA231
14 CFR Public Use
Accident occurred Wednesday, July 13, 2005 in Fair Oaks, CA
Aircraft: Eurocopter France EC120B, registration: N266SD
Injuries: 2 Fatal, 1 Serious.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On July 13, 2005, about 1910 Pacific daylight time, an Eurocopter EC120B, N266SD, experienced a loss of engine power and collided with terrain near Fair Oaks, California. The Sacramento County Sheriff's Department was operating the public-use helicopter under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91. The commercial pilot and the student pilot rated observer sustained fatal injuries, and the observer trainee sustained serious injuries. The helicopter sustained substantial damage. The local flight departed Mather, California. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. The approximate global positioning system (GPS) coordinates of the primary wreckage were 38 degrees 38 minutes north latitude and 121 degrees 13 minutes west longitude.
About 1910, the pilot transmitted "Mayday, mayday, mayday, we're going down." Within minutes of the mayday call, several people reported that they had just witnessed a possible helicopter crash. Witnesses reported hearing a "popping" noise and observed flames and smoke emitting from the exhaust of the helicopter just prior to impact. A grass fire consumed the hillside just above the accident site.
The helicopter was reported to be flying over steep, hilly, terrain. It impacted near the bottom of a 60-degree sloped hillside and rolled on its side after coming to rest at the base of the hill.
Post accident examination revealed a total loss of the free turbine blades. The main rotor blades revealed low rotational energy at the time of impact.
NTSB Identification: LAX05GA231
14 CFR Public Use
Accident occurred Wednesday, July 13, 2005 in Fair Oaks, CA
Aircraft: Eurocopter France EC120B, registration: N266SD
Injuries: 2 Fatal, 1 Serious.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On July 13, 2005, about 1910 Pacific daylight time, an Eurocopter EC120B, N266SD, experienced a loss of engine power and collided with terrain near Fair Oaks, California. The Sacramento County Sheriff's Department was operating the public-use helicopter under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91. The commercial pilot and the student pilot rated observer sustained fatal injuries, and the observer trainee sustained serious injuries. The helicopter sustained substantial damage. The local flight departed Mather, California. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan had been filed. The approximate global positioning system (GPS) coordinates of the primary wreckage were 38 degrees 38 minutes north latitude and 121 degrees 13 minutes west longitude.
About 1910, the pilot transmitted "Mayday, mayday, mayday, we're going down." Within minutes of the mayday call, several people reported that they had just witnessed a possible helicopter crash. Witnesses reported hearing a "popping" noise and observed flames and smoke emitting from the exhaust of the helicopter just prior to impact. A grass fire consumed the hillside just above the accident site.
The helicopter was reported to be flying over steep, hilly, terrain. It impacted near the bottom of a 60-degree sloped hillside and rolled on its side after coming to rest at the base of the hill.
Post accident examination revealed a total loss of the free turbine blades. The main rotor blades revealed low rotational energy at the time of impact.
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Anyone ever have a burning smell in the baggage area?
As we are getting used to this new creature,two pilots mentioned smelling a burning plastic type smell when they get in to undo the battery,so we had a look see twice and saw nothing,so I thought I'd see if it was something anyone else encountered.Thanks
Make sure that the battery terminals are properly screwed on, we had one of the plastic coated nut melt because the pilot hadn't screwed it tight enough.
Just a thought. TiP
Just a thought. TiP
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Thought I'd add a post on the things I've found after doing a 500 hr inspection on a new machine, that is always hangered,
The tail rotor area sees the most wear.and you are allowed 2 thousands pitting on the leading edge,so operating in sandy conditions will certainly cost you the blade or two in the ships lifetime.
The cap over the assy will wear into the hub body if you don't remove and wipe it regularly.the strap pack will show corrosion also,and most people are giving the pack a shot of LPS 2 on it and working it in, to stop it as well as giving the leading edges of the T/R blades a wipe also if you are near salt water or rain.
The blade retention bolts will show corrision on the head and nut end also in the time. and every drain hole was plugged.
your engine mount will have corroded washers and the spacer will be scrap,and the spherical bearings may be pitted.
the scissors will be not far from being worn as I found the inserts corroded also.
If you haven't read all the tasks ,then do so beforehand as you be scratching your head on what the hell are they trying to tell us to do.
The tail rotor area sees the most wear.and you are allowed 2 thousands pitting on the leading edge,so operating in sandy conditions will certainly cost you the blade or two in the ships lifetime.
The cap over the assy will wear into the hub body if you don't remove and wipe it regularly.the strap pack will show corrosion also,and most people are giving the pack a shot of LPS 2 on it and working it in, to stop it as well as giving the leading edges of the T/R blades a wipe also if you are near salt water or rain.
The blade retention bolts will show corrision on the head and nut end also in the time. and every drain hole was plugged.
your engine mount will have corroded washers and the spacer will be scrap,and the spherical bearings may be pitted.
the scissors will be not far from being worn as I found the inserts corroded also.
If you haven't read all the tasks ,then do so beforehand as you be scratching your head on what the hell are they trying to tell us to do.
Last edited by lamanated; 15th Jun 2006 at 19:07.
EC120 Power Requirements
Can anybody possibly tell me (if they know) the power required for different styles of take-off's and landings, ie. running, cushion creep, steep, vertical etc...
Thanks in advance guys
TiP
Thanks in advance guys
TiP
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correct me if i'm wrong and a 'little' off topic but related......
For the 120 you should use max power for as much as possible incase of governer failure, you will not be able to pull more power than it's last recorded setting. Can someone correct me if this in not right
34'
For the 120 you should use max power for as much as possible incase of governer failure, you will not be able to pull more power than it's last recorded setting. Can someone correct me if this in not right
34'
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Originally Posted by 34'
correct me if i'm wrong and a 'little' off topic but related......
For the 120 you should use max power for as much as possible incase of governer failure, you will not be able to pull more power than it's last recorded setting. Can someone correct me if this in not right
34'
For the 120 you should use max power for as much as possible incase of governer failure, you will not be able to pull more power than it's last recorded setting. Can someone correct me if this in not right
34'
At any rate you are basically correct that you can't increase fule flow in an emergency....only reduce it.
Max
Thanks for the thought about the fuel flow issue guys. However, has anyone got some FLI percentage fiqures on the power requirements. For example - "25% is minimum required for a vertical landing etc..." Just curious.
TiP
TiP