Becoming a professional pilot, and finding a job
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Richard,
If you are currently working towards a PPL(H) and are in Suffolk, I can take a good guess at which school you might be using
Talk to the instructors and pilots there about prospects; they will have good advice.
But
There is no Bristows sponsorship scheme anymore.
You best chance, in the UK, with a basic CPL might be, and I mean might, part time work giving pleasure flights but that is it until your hours are at the VERY least 500.
The next stage for any reasonable job prospects and this would also be part time would be to be an instructor. That means at least 300 hours before you can start the course.
You must have another job or qualification to fall back on, be prepared to relocate whereever (and I suggest thinking globally here) and be prepared to drop your standard of living.
Be realistic or consider working in a lucrative career and fly in your spare time with your PPL.
PPRUNE FAN is a little brutal in his comment but sadly ain't far off the mark
Cheers
Whirlygig
If you are currently working towards a PPL(H) and are in Suffolk, I can take a good guess at which school you might be using
Talk to the instructors and pilots there about prospects; they will have good advice.But
There is no Bristows sponsorship scheme anymore.
You best chance, in the UK, with a basic CPL might be, and I mean might, part time work giving pleasure flights but that is it until your hours are at the VERY least 500.
The next stage for any reasonable job prospects and this would also be part time would be to be an instructor. That means at least 300 hours before you can start the course.
You must have another job or qualification to fall back on, be prepared to relocate whereever (and I suggest thinking globally here) and be prepared to drop your standard of living.
Be realistic or consider working in a lucrative career and fly in your spare time with your PPL.
PPRUNE FAN is a little brutal in his comment but sadly ain't far off the mark
Cheers
Whirlygig
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Just to illustrate that it *is* possible to find work with a raw CPL, I got a job with CHC Scotia with <200 hrs and they put me through the IR and Puma conversion. After 3 years I have good money, a pension and a hoose in bonnie Scotland.
Fully understand Its not everybodies cup of tea, and the chances of getting in are slim. To be honest, It's the only option without any P1 time. It's a long slog up here though, it takes 3000hrs before command is possible, then after that not everybody wants a 'North Sea' pilot, as we can only fly in big long straight lines.
Instructing seems a good route in, all the guys I know who've done it enjoyed themselves and it led on to other things.
Fully understand Its not everybodies cup of tea, and the chances of getting in are slim. To be honest, It's the only option without any P1 time. It's a long slog up here though, it takes 3000hrs before command is possible, then after that not everybody wants a 'North Sea' pilot, as we can only fly in big long straight lines.
Instructing seems a good route in, all the guys I know who've done it enjoyed themselves and it led on to other things.
The Original Whirly
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You used to be able to get in with the North Sea companies with less than 200 hours and a CPL. That stopped around the end of 2001. Whether they will start recruiting low hours CPLs again is anyone's guess. Part time work doing pleasure flights? Everyone thinks and hopes they'll get that; very few actually do. Most people are now somehow getting to 300 rotary hours and doing an instructors rating. That means that some would say there's now a surplus of newly qualified restricted instructors, while others say very few can afford to do this so there'll soon be a shortage. As one of the newly qualified FI(R)s, I'd say there's work at the moment if you're prepared to push for it a bit and do part time, as Whirlygig said.
Basically, prospects are not good. Now that could change, but it might not. If you want to do it, go in with your eyes open, be prepared to do anything and relocate if necessary, and/or have something else to fall back on. Don't become one of the CPLs who end up broke and disillusioned, wishing they'd never heard of helicopters, and believe me, I've met a few...excited and ambitious in the beginning, older and wiser, and broke and embittered, a few years later.
Sorry to be so negative. I love helicopter flying, and I'll never regret having done all I've done. But I'd be a lot richer if I hadn't. Like I said, do go into it with your eyes open.
Basically, prospects are not good. Now that could change, but it might not. If you want to do it, go in with your eyes open, be prepared to do anything and relocate if necessary, and/or have something else to fall back on. Don't become one of the CPLs who end up broke and disillusioned, wishing they'd never heard of helicopters, and believe me, I've met a few...excited and ambitious in the beginning, older and wiser, and broke and embittered, a few years later.
Sorry to be so negative. I love helicopter flying, and I'll never regret having done all I've done. But I'd be a lot richer if I hadn't. Like I said, do go into it with your eyes open.
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Thanks for your responses -
I knew the basics (that is to say I knew I would not get a job easily) but you have certainaly given me something seroius to think about.
Richard
I knew the basics (that is to say I knew I would not get a job easily) but you have certainaly given me something seroius to think about.
Richard
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about this whole job issue...
Hi Guys! I'm a forum virgin and in the process of getting my CPL(H) and everything i've read is making me just a bit disillusioned about the prospect of getting a job. I'm in the hospitality industry at the moment, 33 years old and feel like a career change. I'm prepared to travel to get work, even overseas. I understand that the first couple of years will be tough getting those hours up, but what about then? Can someone please throw a ray of sunshine in and say there are actually jobs out there....
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Globally there is work about but in the UK the market is pants presently
there are operators looking but not many and those that are are looking for pilots with hours.
I have a friend with 60 hours twin squirrel I.R, F.I 27 hours 206 crm remaining time on R22 but only 350 hours total and he is in the same position need hours to get the job need the job to get the hours. it is hard work and there is no easy pill to take
he has indicated that there are snippets of work as a flight instructor but it is the usual all schools want the weekends off so it is all weekend work but saying that work is work dont give up but unless you have a big bank account stay employed untill you have a firm offer.
I hope that it helps
but if you want to do it
DONT GIVE UP
regards
Bravo 99
there are operators looking but not many and those that are are looking for pilots with hours.
I have a friend with 60 hours twin squirrel I.R, F.I 27 hours 206 crm remaining time on R22 but only 350 hours total and he is in the same position need hours to get the job need the job to get the hours. it is hard work and there is no easy pill to take
he has indicated that there are snippets of work as a flight instructor but it is the usual all schools want the weekends off so it is all weekend work but saying that work is work dont give up but unless you have a big bank account stay employed untill you have a firm offer.
I hope that it helps
but if you want to do it
DONT GIVE UP
regards
Bravo 99
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I was in your shoes just a couple of years ago - the good thing was that I didnt have pprune painting a grim picture of my future.
Yes the jobs market is pants at the moment in the UK, but in the past it has been pretty cyclical - what goes down generally goes back up again.
Take it one step at a time and concentrate on getting the CPL and then consider the next step. Instructing may be poorly paid, but it is an excellent apprenticeship and a lot of fun. As for the weekend stuff. Get used to it. There are very few pilots out there who manage to get every weekend off.
Enjoy your flying
COD
Yes the jobs market is pants at the moment in the UK, but in the past it has been pretty cyclical - what goes down generally goes back up again.
Take it one step at a time and concentrate on getting the CPL and then consider the next step. Instructing may be poorly paid, but it is an excellent apprenticeship and a lot of fun. As for the weekend stuff. Get used to it. There are very few pilots out there who manage to get every weekend off.
Enjoy your flying
COD
The Original Whirly
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Crashondeck,
Two years ago was pre- 9/11...or before some of the repercussions of it anyway. Before then, the North Sea oil companies were recruiting new CPLs with under 200 hours, putting them through IRs, and giving them jobs. Instructors were heading for the North Sea, so there were plenty of instructing jobs for the newly qualified who didn't fancy life in Aberdeen. Even the pessimistic on Rotorheads thought life in the helicopter world looked rosy.
But that all changed. First the oil companies stopped taking you on without an IR. Then there became doubts if they'd even take you even with an IR! At that point, I stopped following what was going on in the wilds of Scotland. I, and many others, decided to get 300 hours and an instructor's rating. I never thought they'd be so many of us doing that! But what else could anyone do? Hence... a surplus of newly qualified FI(R)s, and little work elsewhere.
But what you say brings up an interesting point, about both helicopter training and life. Should you do what you want, hope you'll be lucky or that things will change, take risks, but make sure you don't end up in old age saying; "If only...."? Or should you think it through clearly, go for the safe option, and make sure you'll always have the money for the bills and the family and the pension, even if you don't follow your dream...and it might have worked, and you'll never ever know?
I've always gone for the first of those. I've had lots of fun, but I'd have been far better off financially if I'd lived my life the second way. But I couldn't have done it; I'm not that sort of person. I guess it comes down to personality more than anything else.
I think a lot of the doom-mongers on Rotorheads are of the first type, and they've now been around a while and seen the disadvantages if it doesn't work out. Maybe they wish - too late - that they'd gone for the second option. Can you blame them for wanting to pass on what they've learnt...with people who come on here and ask anyway?
Two years ago was pre- 9/11...or before some of the repercussions of it anyway. Before then, the North Sea oil companies were recruiting new CPLs with under 200 hours, putting them through IRs, and giving them jobs. Instructors were heading for the North Sea, so there were plenty of instructing jobs for the newly qualified who didn't fancy life in Aberdeen. Even the pessimistic on Rotorheads thought life in the helicopter world looked rosy.
But that all changed. First the oil companies stopped taking you on without an IR. Then there became doubts if they'd even take you even with an IR! At that point, I stopped following what was going on in the wilds of Scotland. I, and many others, decided to get 300 hours and an instructor's rating. I never thought they'd be so many of us doing that! But what else could anyone do? Hence... a surplus of newly qualified FI(R)s, and little work elsewhere.
But what you say brings up an interesting point, about both helicopter training and life. Should you do what you want, hope you'll be lucky or that things will change, take risks, but make sure you don't end up in old age saying; "If only...."? Or should you think it through clearly, go for the safe option, and make sure you'll always have the money for the bills and the family and the pension, even if you don't follow your dream...and it might have worked, and you'll never ever know?
I've always gone for the first of those. I've had lots of fun, but I'd have been far better off financially if I'd lived my life the second way. But I couldn't have done it; I'm not that sort of person. I guess it comes down to personality more than anything else.
I think a lot of the doom-mongers on Rotorheads are of the first type, and they've now been around a while and seen the disadvantages if it doesn't work out. Maybe they wish - too late - that they'd gone for the second option. Can you blame them for wanting to pass on what they've learnt...with people who come on here and ask anyway?
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Hi whirrybird
your words are right its just such a nice job to do when it gos well
we would all be better off if we did something else but i like what I do its just tough
best advise as I think we both agree on is to keep chipping away but keep an eye on the big picture of feeding the family and not ending up with AIDS.
for the un educated
AVIATION INDUCED DIVORCE SYNDRUM
TAKE CARE
BRAVO 99
your words are right its just such a nice job to do when it gos well
we would all be better off if we did something else but i like what I do its just tough
best advise as I think we both agree on is to keep chipping away but keep an eye on the big picture of feeding the family and not ending up with AIDS.
for the un educated
AVIATION INDUCED DIVORCE SYNDRUM
TAKE CARE
BRAVO 99
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What do you guys think of going to the USA, getting your CPL / IR / CFI / CFII in about 6 months for a total cost of around £20,000, almost guaranteed to walk into a job as a CFI for a year to get your godly 1000 hrs, strong possibility of being hired for a season flying tourists gaining the sacret 500 hrs turbine, enjoying the hospitality, weather and opportunities the USA can give, then returning to blighty?
Another question, I heared an FAA ATPL can be converted to CAA ATPL with very little effort, is this right??
Keep it spinning
LB
Another question, I heared an FAA ATPL can be converted to CAA ATPL with very little effort, is this right??
Keep it spinning
LB
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There was talk earlier in this thread about going to train for the JAA CPL in Florida with HAI and then converting to FAA CPL getting an FAA FI rating then trying to find some work instructing before the 2 year J1 visa expired.
I was wondering how this plan worked out for those considering it, as I'm looking to maybe go down the same road.
Anyone have experience with this
Cheers Folks
Miles
I was wondering how this plan worked out for those considering it, as I'm looking to maybe go down the same road.
Anyone have experience with this
Cheers Folks
Miles
I want to be a pilot!
Found this hilarious essay written by a 10 year old pupil in Switzerland. Not sure where he got his knowledge from but he seems to be “in the know”! Enjoy:
Woolf
I want to be a pilot!
When I am older I want to become a pilot because it is a funny and easy job to do. That’s why there are so many pilots. They don’t have to stay at school very long because they only need to learn enough to read numbers and dials. I think they probably also have to be able to read a road map to find their way. They must be brave, so that they are not scared to fly into fog or when a wing or engine breaks away. Then they have to stay calm and know what to do.
Pilots have to have good eyesight to be able to see through cloud and must not be afraid of thunder and lightning because they are a lot closer to them then we are. Another good thing is the salary. Pilots earn more money than they can spend. Thats why most people think flying is very dangerous but only pilots know that it is very easy.
There are a few things that I don’t like about becoming a pilot. For example that all the girls and air hostesses are after the pilots and want to marry them. Pilots always have to fight them off. I hope that I won’t get airsick when I’m flying because I always get sick in our car. If I get sick when I am flying I just have find a proper job.
When I am older I want to become a pilot because it is a funny and easy job to do. That’s why there are so many pilots. They don’t have to stay at school very long because they only need to learn enough to read numbers and dials. I think they probably also have to be able to read a road map to find their way. They must be brave, so that they are not scared to fly into fog or when a wing or engine breaks away. Then they have to stay calm and know what to do.
Pilots have to have good eyesight to be able to see through cloud and must not be afraid of thunder and lightning because they are a lot closer to them then we are. Another good thing is the salary. Pilots earn more money than they can spend. Thats why most people think flying is very dangerous but only pilots know that it is very easy.
There are a few things that I don’t like about becoming a pilot. For example that all the girls and air hostesses are after the pilots and want to marry them. Pilots always have to fight them off. I hope that I won’t get airsick when I’m flying because I always get sick in our car. If I get sick when I am flying I just have find a proper job.
Woolf
simfly for you benefit:
PPF1 never let the truth get in the way of a fun story ....
\Sal"a*ry\, n.; pl. {Salaries}. [F. salaire, L. salarium,
originally, salt money, the money given to the Roman soldiers
for salt, which was a part of their pay, fr. salarius
belonging to salt, fr. sal salt. See {Salt}.]
The recompense or consideration paid, or stipulated to be
paid, to a person at regular intervals for services; fixed
wages, as by the year, quarter, or month; stipend; hire.
This is hire and salary, not revenge. --Shak.
Note: Recompense for services paid at, or reckoned by, short
intervals, as a day or week, is usually called wages.
Syn: Stipend; pay; wages; hire; allowance.
\Sal"a*ry\ v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Salaried}; p. pr. & vb.
n. {Salarying}.]
To pay, or agree to pay, a salary to; to attach salary to;
as, to salary a clerk; to salary a position.
originally, salt money, the money given to the Roman soldiers
for salt, which was a part of their pay, fr. salarius
belonging to salt, fr. sal salt. See {Salt}.]
The recompense or consideration paid, or stipulated to be
paid, to a person at regular intervals for services; fixed
wages, as by the year, quarter, or month; stipend; hire.
This is hire and salary, not revenge. --Shak.
Note: Recompense for services paid at, or reckoned by, short
intervals, as a day or week, is usually called wages.
Syn: Stipend; pay; wages; hire; allowance.
\Sal"a*ry\ v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Salaried}; p. pr. & vb.
n. {Salarying}.]
To pay, or agree to pay, a salary to; to attach salary to;
as, to salary a clerk; to salary a position.
PPF1 never let the truth get in the way of a fun story ....
Woolf:
Never...let...the...truth...get in the way of a fun story, eh?
It never ceases to amaze me how gullible people are. There are those who seem to believe just about everything they hear. Me, I guess I'm a horrid cynic or terminally skeptical. Or maybe I've just been around long enough to know that some of the things we think of as unassailable "truths" are really not.
I don't know too many 10 year-olds who even know the word "salary" much less it's definition. If a 10 year-old wrote that without some "help" from his/her pilot-parent, I will eat my David Clark.
PPF1 never let the truth get in the way of a fun story ....
It never ceases to amaze me how gullible people are. There are those who seem to believe just about everything they hear. Me, I guess I'm a horrid cynic or terminally skeptical. Or maybe I've just been around long enough to know that some of the things we think of as unassailable "truths" are really not.
Another good thing is the salary. Pilots earn more money than they can spend. Thats why most people think flying is very dangerous but only pilots know that it is very easy.
That's Life!!
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PPF#1
Lighten up a bit, I first saw this 'tale' about 30 years ago, purportedly written by a 12 year old american, 'the old ones are not necessarily the best'.
I still prefer the note, supposedly from a 10 y.o girl, handed to a plank jockey, which waxed lyrical about the majority of the flight and closed with ' a pity you fecked up the landing'.
Lighten up a bit, I first saw this 'tale' about 30 years ago, purportedly written by a 12 year old american, 'the old ones are not necessarily the best'.
I still prefer the note, supposedly from a 10 y.o girl, handed to a plank jockey, which waxed lyrical about the majority of the flight and closed with ' a pity you fecked up the landing'.
I don't know too many 10 year-olds who even know the word "salary" much less it's definition. If a 10 year-old wrote that without some "help" from his/her pilot-parent, I will eat my David Clark.
Sorry to spoil the fun, but I can't stand people who are cruel to completely innocent headsets.
