Fixed-wing or Rotary career? (incl Changing licence to Rotary)
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Civilian or military, it makes no odds to me its your personality that bugs.
You can try and justify your comments by saying it was all a wind up but there's an underlying arrogance in your comments.
At least have the courtesy to bum about yourself on another thread and not waste everyones time here.
Plank or rotary, many pilots leave the North Sea life to go fixed wing,and I must say I haven't heard of anyone coming back into the helicopter world.
My guess is that the monthly injection of serious £££ relieves any boredom that may set in!!
Civilian or military, it makes no odds to me its your personality that bugs.
You can try and justify your comments by saying it was all a wind up but there's an underlying arrogance in your comments.
At least have the courtesy to bum about yourself on another thread and not waste everyones time here.
Plank or rotary, many pilots leave the North Sea life to go fixed wing,and I must say I haven't heard of anyone coming back into the helicopter world.
My guess is that the monthly injection of serious £££ relieves any boredom that may set in!!
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I am also dual rated, and spent 20+ years in law enforcement flying both. For the past ten years (since retiring from public service), I have also flown both, but have settled into flying Learjets based in S. Europe. I miss the helos, but certainly do not consider the f/w flying I am doing boring. Each flight is a new adventure, with varying destinations all over Europe and the Middle East. Flying corporate jets in the U.S. is also a lot of fun. It is apples and oranges. As far as $$, for the most part, yes, there is more money flying f/w than in helos. There are exceptions, as some corporate helo positions pay quite well, and there are corporate positions where you may fly both. See my posting regarding Evergreen Alaska, for an example of where being dual rated can pay dividends.
Cheers, Check 6
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Kick the tires, light the fires, first off is lead, brief on guard.
[This message has been edited by Check 6 (edited 15 October 2000).]
Cheers, Check 6
------------------
Kick the tires, light the fires, first off is lead, brief on guard.
[This message has been edited by Check 6 (edited 15 October 2000).]
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Having around 7500 hours, 75% of it rotary, in a spread of civi and military flying, I made the move to get out of flying totally around ten years ago. I finally came to the conclusion that long term rotary flying 'does your head in'.
Having safely established myself in a new career, though, I do miss flying, from time to time. I therefore make a point of flying planks with a nearby club for a few hours every month. Interestingly, though, I have absolutely no desire to fly rotary again.
I think that, for a good long term money earning job leading up to retirement, fixed wing has a lot going for it.
Having safely established myself in a new career, though, I do miss flying, from time to time. I therefore make a point of flying planks with a nearby club for a few hours every month. Interestingly, though, I have absolutely no desire to fly rotary again.
I think that, for a good long term money earning job leading up to retirement, fixed wing has a lot going for it.
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Jet driver needs heli advice
Rotorheads, I must admit to being somewhat red-faced about asking this as most of us have probably become a touch hard nosed and cynical in our old age (myself included). Boyish enthusiasm does seem a trifle uncool.
Anyway, here goes. 8000 hour airline training Captain, late thirties, wants to swim against the tide and go heli flying for a living. (Ducks for cover and looks on as hard-bitten rotary drivers clutch stomachs and roll around carpet to sound of much laughter).
Why? Life's too short not to have new challenges and I just love these machines. I've only 50 hours experience in a Bell-47, but it has to be the most fulfilling and fun flying I've ever done.
So, my question then, if I arm myself with a shiny new CPL(H), does my 8000 hours fixed wing and training experience count for anything with potential employers? I guess I'm specifically thinking B-206 or similar type, charters etc.
I hope I haven't opened a can of worms with regard to taking peoples' jobs, etc, as I realise things are not easy in the rotary world at present. Have they ever been? I'd just like to think that one little fishy swimming in the opposite direction to all the others wouldn't create too many waves.
In a nutshell then, armed with a CPL(H) and extensive overall flying experience, what chance of say part-time charter work as an example?
Feeling like a really embarrassed wanabee now, but I would seriously value any comments, suggestions or advice.
Anyway, here goes. 8000 hour airline training Captain, late thirties, wants to swim against the tide and go heli flying for a living. (Ducks for cover and looks on as hard-bitten rotary drivers clutch stomachs and roll around carpet to sound of much laughter).
Why? Life's too short not to have new challenges and I just love these machines. I've only 50 hours experience in a Bell-47, but it has to be the most fulfilling and fun flying I've ever done.
So, my question then, if I arm myself with a shiny new CPL(H), does my 8000 hours fixed wing and training experience count for anything with potential employers? I guess I'm specifically thinking B-206 or similar type, charters etc.
I hope I haven't opened a can of worms with regard to taking peoples' jobs, etc, as I realise things are not easy in the rotary world at present. Have they ever been? I'd just like to think that one little fishy swimming in the opposite direction to all the others wouldn't create too many waves.
In a nutshell then, armed with a CPL(H) and extensive overall flying experience, what chance of say part-time charter work as an example?
Feeling like a really embarrassed wanabee now, but I would seriously value any comments, suggestions or advice.
I can't give you the industry drum, but I've changed spots leopard style in the flying game several times, and am now doing it again.
Your past experience must count for something - CRM, general situational awareness, and probably philosophy towards flying - ie, having a good idea how far to push a situation and being willing to make an abort decision, would have to give you an accelerated rise to competence.
In analogous situations, I have found it to be something of an emotional rollercoaster - you know you can fly and operate, but you lose (for a time) the automatic hands and feet, and knowing where to look, skills that you had on your previous type, so your confidence can take a knock.
Funny as it sounds, as a first-time learner, you don't know what you don't know, so it's probably easier in that way than if you're transitioning from another form of flying.
If you're fairly well sorted out financially, I think it can only be a good thing to follow your hankering - as they say on the Lotto, if you don't have a go, you'll never know!
Your past experience must count for something - CRM, general situational awareness, and probably philosophy towards flying - ie, having a good idea how far to push a situation and being willing to make an abort decision, would have to give you an accelerated rise to competence.
In analogous situations, I have found it to be something of an emotional rollercoaster - you know you can fly and operate, but you lose (for a time) the automatic hands and feet, and knowing where to look, skills that you had on your previous type, so your confidence can take a knock.
Funny as it sounds, as a first-time learner, you don't know what you don't know, so it's probably easier in that way than if you're transitioning from another form of flying.
If you're fairly well sorted out financially, I think it can only be a good thing to follow your hankering - as they say on the Lotto, if you don't have a go, you'll never know!
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Thanks, Arm out the Window, I appreciate your reply. Interesting point you raise about the temporary difficulties of transitioning to a new type of flying.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Anyone got a UK perspective on my initial post?
Thanks for the encouragement.
Anyone got a UK perspective on my initial post?
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Think they are all too busy studying for their ATPL(A) exams!
But if you are serious about changing to rotary, then your previous flying experience will obviously be a big advantage. You will find the training easier and I believe that it is a good time to swim against the tide as far as employment prospects are concerned. If you are aware of the inferior financial rewards after your investment and are still keen - go for it.
But if you are serious about changing to rotary, then your previous flying experience will obviously be a big advantage. You will find the training easier and I believe that it is a good time to swim against the tide as far as employment prospects are concerned. If you are aware of the inferior financial rewards after your investment and are still keen - go for it.
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Hi Heli Vision - I know what you are feeling used to fly helis (4000 hrs) then went fixed wing flew for the airlines (Dan Air then BA) all on the 737 now fly a Private BBJ. The lure of helicopters is always there, to such an extent I am in the process of buying a Bell 47wreck and restoring it. If you have any questions send me an email Ill give you some grass roots suggestions!
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night rating: 10 hours total, but if u'v got one, five in heli.
instriment would be similar sort of thing.
only need 40 or 50 hours for comercial(H) from cpl(A)
would benifit heaps i'd recon!
instriment would be similar sort of thing.
only need 40 or 50 hours for comercial(H) from cpl(A)
would benifit heaps i'd recon!
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Thanks for your interest guys.
Out of Balance - they're probably all studying for their ATPL(A) - nice one.
Bobby Johnson - glad I'm not the only one - good luck with the Bell.
Another question then. Am I right in thinking that many companies have a minimum hours requirement which would be well beyond the number I'd have with my entry level CPL(H), due to insurance requirements? Or, would my fixed wing time count for this insurance requirement?
The bottom line is, could I realistically expect employment (say in the charter field) equiped only with the minimum rotary hours I'd need to convert to a CPL(H), from my ATPL(A)?
My wife's understanding, but there is a limit!
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
Out of Balance - they're probably all studying for their ATPL(A) - nice one.
Bobby Johnson - glad I'm not the only one - good luck with the Bell.
Another question then. Am I right in thinking that many companies have a minimum hours requirement which would be well beyond the number I'd have with my entry level CPL(H), due to insurance requirements? Or, would my fixed wing time count for this insurance requirement?
The bottom line is, could I realistically expect employment (say in the charter field) equiped only with the minimum rotary hours I'd need to convert to a CPL(H), from my ATPL(A)?
My wife's understanding, but there is a limit!
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
I have an obscure vision of you being a bit of a Salmon! That's not intended as an insult, just a suggestion that most of the fish are fighting like mad to get upstream!
I've been flying helo's for fifteen years in a variety of roles and can honestly say I would not swap a day of it (Well perhaps a couple of IR renewals!). However last year decided to try for fixed wing and am now looking for the right job opportunity.
Even if it does not work out I will be happy in the rotary world but will not be sitting here in ten years time wishing I had had the bottle to try.
So my advice, for what it is worth, is, if you fancy it, go for it!
There are a fair variety of jobs out there at the moment, and with your background I would have thought you would be snapped up.
I've been flying helo's for fifteen years in a variety of roles and can honestly say I would not swap a day of it (Well perhaps a couple of IR renewals!). However last year decided to try for fixed wing and am now looking for the right job opportunity.
Even if it does not work out I will be happy in the rotary world but will not be sitting here in ten years time wishing I had had the bottle to try.
So my advice, for what it is worth, is, if you fancy it, go for it!
There are a fair variety of jobs out there at the moment, and with your background I would have thought you would be snapped up.
It may be worth a few enquiries direct to potential employers to test the water; they should give you a reasonably honest assessment of your potential.
Be warned though, if you give up the day job entirely and rely for your livelihood on the charter level of the rotary world you will face a great deal more ****ing about than in the airline world; I don't need to warn you about the income expectations. It can, however, be genuinely interesting and varied stuff. Feel free to email me if you want to talk in depth.
Be warned though, if you give up the day job entirely and rely for your livelihood on the charter level of the rotary world you will face a great deal more ****ing about than in the airline world; I don't need to warn you about the income expectations. It can, however, be genuinely interesting and varied stuff. Feel free to email me if you want to talk in depth.
"Just a pilot"
If you're really interested, get it from the horse's mouth-IF you want to fly air taxi ask an air taxi operator. EMS, offshore, whatever.
Most of the chief pilots I know are right guys and straight up- especially stellar individual @rmhllc.com (Rocky Mountain Helicopters, USA EMS operator), although the pay there is subpar.
Most of the chief pilots I know are right guys and straight up- especially stellar individual @rmhllc.com (Rocky Mountain Helicopters, USA EMS operator), although the pay there is subpar.
"Just a pilot"
Addendum- we're (I'm with a large EMS operator) currently beating the bushes for a line pilot. HQ forwards us a stack (8) of resumes and leads from inquiries after positions-including a pilot who was upfront that he'd lost his medical...???
NO, NO, NO! There's no shortage of pilots!
Next, I guess we'll be making appointments for the recently deceased to interview for this position-they're not pushy about pay and stuff.
NO, NO, NO! There's no shortage of pilots!
Next, I guess we'll be making appointments for the recently deceased to interview for this position-they're not pushy about pay and stuff.
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I used to drive Bell 206's. Great aircraft, but, at least for Americans, the helicopter job market seldom pays much. That's why I finally made the jump into fixed wing.
IMHO, airplane flying does not really translate into copter skills (instruments notwithstanding), so some (maybe all) employers only look at rotary time.
You might want to ease into rotary if you're really determined to do it; I've known of airline pilots getting part time copter jobs. Personally, I like the rotary realm better in terms of the people and the flying, but it's not a financially viable way to earn a living.
IMHO, airplane flying does not really translate into copter skills (instruments notwithstanding), so some (maybe all) employers only look at rotary time.
You might want to ease into rotary if you're really determined to do it; I've known of airline pilots getting part time copter jobs. Personally, I like the rotary realm better in terms of the people and the flying, but it's not a financially viable way to earn a living.
Gatvol
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Im shaking my bottle of Bombay Saphire after reading this thread............Am I OK?? Is it a person who wears a suit, sits in a nice aircraft and eats real food, gets a big paycheck and now wants to work as a Helo driver??
Somebody take him to a shrink......
If that does not work, best thing he can do to prepare is sell all his worldly possessions, buy a mobile home in Lowsyana, get a really used peek up truck, a coon dog and a barefoot Bimbo. Try that for a week on no money. If that works or you come home to Bubba doin the Bimbo and you like it, then your in business.
The rest of the guys will tell you the serious stuff, like hour requirements etc.
A Post Script to this is, never, never ask a Helicopter Driver for Serious Advice.
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: B Sousa ]
Somebody take him to a shrink......
If that does not work, best thing he can do to prepare is sell all his worldly possessions, buy a mobile home in Lowsyana, get a really used peek up truck, a coon dog and a barefoot Bimbo. Try that for a week on no money. If that works or you come home to Bubba doin the Bimbo and you like it, then your in business.
The rest of the guys will tell you the serious stuff, like hour requirements etc.
A Post Script to this is, never, never ask a Helicopter Driver for Serious Advice.
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: B Sousa ]
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Guys, many thanks for the info, it's much appreciated - please keep it coming.
B Sousa, I'm still laughing, although the bloke sitting behind me here taking notes doesn't seem that amused. Can't say it's as hot as the deep south here, but my feet sure do smell swampy, I've got baby sick all over my shoulder, and the cat's just thrown up on my keyboard. The twelve year old Nissan needs a service, and I'm sure the plumber doesn't need my missus to show him where the u-bend is again......Now where's that varmit of a dog...Rebel, ya'all come here, y'here...where's my gun...we're gonna git ourselves some no good, puke happy cat, y'here....
.....cue the duelling banjoes...
Please keep the advice coming!
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
B Sousa, I'm still laughing, although the bloke sitting behind me here taking notes doesn't seem that amused. Can't say it's as hot as the deep south here, but my feet sure do smell swampy, I've got baby sick all over my shoulder, and the cat's just thrown up on my keyboard. The twelve year old Nissan needs a service, and I'm sure the plumber doesn't need my missus to show him where the u-bend is again......Now where's that varmit of a dog...Rebel, ya'all come here, y'here...where's my gun...we're gonna git ourselves some no good, puke happy cat, y'here....
.....cue the duelling banjoes...
Please keep the advice coming!
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
[ 31 August 2001: Message edited by: Heli vision ]
Gatvol
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Duelng banjoes is a helicopter with a two pilot requirement. You can tell the Pilots as their eyes are real close together and they usually have webbing in a few toes or fingers. Comes from the family tree with few branches. Like, "Ifin ya get deevorced will your ex-wife still be yer sister."
"You will know your a Helicopter Pilot when you admonish your 12 year old daughter for smokin at the dinner table ........in front of her kid."
8000 hours of jet time you should be able to get a good Fixed Wing job, you certainly wont get a minimal paying helicopter job with less than 1500 hours Helicopter and most of that will have to be turbine. Folks may tell you that your fixed wing stuff will help, but ask those people for a job.
I only joke about this because its a tough world out there, and fixed wingers for the most part make more money than helo drivers.
Good Luck and if you want to get rich, bring all your money here to Vegas. Put it on 17 Black at the Roulette table. You will have one good time for about three minutes......
"You will know your a Helicopter Pilot when you admonish your 12 year old daughter for smokin at the dinner table ........in front of her kid."
8000 hours of jet time you should be able to get a good Fixed Wing job, you certainly wont get a minimal paying helicopter job with less than 1500 hours Helicopter and most of that will have to be turbine. Folks may tell you that your fixed wing stuff will help, but ask those people for a job.
I only joke about this because its a tough world out there, and fixed wingers for the most part make more money than helo drivers.
Good Luck and if you want to get rich, bring all your money here to Vegas. Put it on 17 Black at the Roulette table. You will have one good time for about three minutes......